Quick 24p Question

mattadamsapple

mattadamsapple

Well-known member
This is my first edit in FCP...I used my Panasonic Ag-hvx 200 and shot in 24P/480i "stretched" I want to view all my footage the way I shot it.

What is the difference between "easy setup" and "capture settings?" (when logging footage)

In easy setup I can choose a frame rate but when I'm on the "capture screen" I cant.

I've been setting my easy setup at "all rates" and then choosing....

1)NTSC 24p (23.98fps)

OR

2)24p (23.98fps) Advanced Pulldown Removal

Which one should I use??

Isn't advanced pulldown removal only for footage shot on 24Pa?

Lastly, any of these options that I choose, I can't see my "stretched" image. The only way I can see it the way shot it is to choose "DV NTSC anamorpic" or adjust my "capture" settings to anamorphic

Also, when I click 24FPS in the "rates" section, the default is

Cinema Tools- 24 FPS from DV NTSC

What does this mean??


Oh. One more thing. Should I import the footage stretched and unstretch it on the export?? Does it really matter?

Any info would be so appeciated. Thank you so much for your time!

http://www.mattadamsapple.com
 
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Wow that was a lot to take in. I HIGHLY recommend consider buying Noah K's DVX 100 DVD. If you're going to be shooting to tape on the HVX, then that basically is the DVX for the most part (especially settings wise). I don't own the book myself, but I'm quite sure it covers all of your concerns there, in a step-by-step fashion. Check out his DVDs at Call Box Live. There is also Barry Green's HVX Book or his HVX Bootcamp DVDs. Barry's second bootcamp DVD covers Post workflows (and so I'm assuming tape as well as P2 concerns, but I don't own the DVD so you'd have to message Barry and ask him).

When you shoot SD but want 16x9, please remember you are still shooting a 720x480 frame. The camera is just squeezing the 16x9 (so 854x480) into that frame, but you still have a 720x480 frame. When you turn on the anamorphic flag in FCP it simply expands your 720 pixels to 854 pixels for playback (and eventual output). But the raw DV is still 720 pixels wide. So the Anamorphic part of your question, it doesn't really matter when you turn it on, its just a on/off flag. If you forget to turn it on during digitizing, you can easily turn it on afterwards. Just scroll horizontally in your browser till you find the Anamorphic column. Then you can check/uncheck the setting to your heart's content.

I don't know the HVX 200 tape modes that well. Is there a 24pA for the HVX 200 tape recording? If so, and you definitely shot 24p and NOT 24pA, then you should not use the remove advanced pulldown option. If you only shot 24p, then you want to digitize at 29.97, so DV NTSC 48khz is what you want. You can go into your Audio/Video settings and turn on the Anamorphic flag in your capture settings for the DV NTSC 48khz preset, or you can just turn on the Anamorphic setting after you've ingested the footage by using the Anamorphic column in the browser. Also, you should be editing on a 29.97 timeline then.

The Cinema Tools options are related to cutting at 23.98/24 fps. If you are bring film footage in then there's a variety of cinema tool related issues to worry about. Or if you're trying to conform 29.97 shot footage to 23.98 you might be using Cinema Tools. But if you shot 24p, digitize at 29.97, edit at 29.97, then anything Cinema Tools related is not of your concern.

Cheers.
 
Thank you so much for all your help. I really/honestly/sincerly thought that I had a quick question. I should have changed the name of the post!

Just a few things to clarify. I definitely shot in 24P so I know now that I don't have to select the advanced pulldown removal" but in easy setup shouldn't I select DV-NTSC 24P?

Also, why can't I edit at 24? Why do I have to edit at 29.97?

-Matt

http://www.mattadamsapple.com
 
With either option you're shooting 30 (for simplicity sake) fps. In 24p though all you get is a film look in the 30i shell though. There are no special markers on any of the frames, it simply looks nicer. With 24pA however you get a film look in a 30i shell and you have a bunch of flagged frames. So when you turn on removed advanced pulldown, your NLE has the necessary information to remove the excessive frames and drop the 30i shell, get the real 24 frames and make a 24 frame file. So then you have the footage necessary to edit with at 24 frames.

If you shoot 24p you are just adjusting the look of your footage, not the frame rate. Your still shooting 29.97 video, it'll simply look more like film and less like the 6 o'clock news. So just like had you shot in native 29.97 mode, if you want to edit that material at 23.98, you have to do a reverse telecine. So you would need to take your footage into Cinema Tools to conform it. I've not done this myself, but from the moans and groans that often show up here from those who have, I don't take it to be the nicest thing in the world to do.

Cheers.
 
I'm new to this site, so forgive me if I'm in the wrong place to ask this question, but you guys seem to have answers.

I just started shooting my DVX 100b in 24pa and my picture never looked better. (I had been at 30p with all my settings at zero) When I tried to capture with FCP I set it to capture DV NTSC 48kHz Advanced (2:3:3:2) pulldown removal. This led to error messages. I then had the same setting but switched to NDF and it worked perfectly with great footage.

I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth, but am I on the right track?

P.S. Your site is great, I've learned so much and you all seem very generous with your knowledge.
 
Doug,

Well depending on how the camera is setup, whether you capture using DF or NDF does matter yes. Final Cut Pro needs to have the same setting to reflect what was shot onto the tape. In the future though if you get an error message, write it down word for word or do a screen grab of it and then post that as part of your message. Its easier to help then.

If you think you'd like a reference material/source for the workflow associated with 24pA on the DVX 100, you might want to consider Noah K's DVD. It goes through that for you step by step. You can check it out at Call Box. If you have any questions about the DVD you can even ask Noah here on the forum as he is a regular contributor.

Cheers.
 
So.....

So.....

Which is best? P OR PA? Pros Cons?

Why not just shoot in 24p, editing in a standard timeline?

Why mess with all the junk? What does 24pa give you that 24p doesn't?

For what applications is 24pa needed?

Oh ya, QUESTION: Can you convert HDV video to another Master format such as Betacam, DVCAM, etc? Or since it's compressed already to a mpg2 format when recording you can't do that?
 
Shooting 24p and editing in a standard (29.97) timeline is one workflow. But if you want to make a true 24p DVD or go out to film it makes that work much harder. With a 24pA edit you are free to create just about any sort of output. You can go to 24p DVD, to film or to tape by automatically re-inserting the pulldown on playout. Also a lot easier to covert to 25fps PAL. For this reason 24p is used by all TV shows and films as the editing format of choice.

-Noah
 
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