Questions from the film I'm on

[vger]

I'm working on a film right now and a lot of questions have popped up. It's a low budget (under $11,ooo) student feature. I'm the mixer and there is no regular boom op (today is actually the first day I've had a boom op on the whole shoot). I'm still a student and not very experienced.

As for gear we've got a mix of my personal gear, the school's gear, and some other people's gear who are close to the production. And yeah, the sound budget is $0.

Mics:
Senn. 416
Senn. MKH 70
3 Senn g2 wireless with me2
2 Senn. XLR lavs (don't know the model)
Rode NTG-2

Mixer:
SD 442

Recorder:
Zoom H4

So, here are the problems dash questions that have come up:

1. What kind of tape should I be using to put a lav on talent?

Right now I'm using 3M medical tape, and I'm having a lot of problems with the mic coming lose and residue left on the mic/cable.
​

2. Wear should I hide the bodypack on active talent?

I normally clip it to the back of their pants and let their shirt cover it, but on this production the packs are coming off and talent's shirts don't cover the packs.
​

3. How do you handle it when the 1st AD is arguing with you about whether a shot is MOS or not?

Yeah, this really happened. (I was arguing for the shot not being MOS)
​

4. What is the best way to handle the production's boom op. not showing up, and not being able to get anyone else on short notice?

This on is kinda to vent, but any advice about booming and mixing would be helpful.
​

5. What do you guys use for a cart?

I see now how important it is, and can afford anything near the PSC one I see on websites. Preferably something under a $100.00 would be nice, but I would love to here any suggestions.
​

6. What freq resp/bit rate do you guys normally record at?

The sound designer wanted 48khz/24bit, so that's what I'm doing. Though normally I record 48khz/6bit.
​

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the sound thus far. I think I've done a pretty good job, and have learned a lot. The director is on my side, and that has helped a lot.

PS if anyone is doing something in or near Orlando (or knows someone who is), I am trying to gain experience. I'd love to be a sound PA, Utility, or boom op. (free or pay)

 

[Alex.Mitchell]

1. Tape

Honestly, I use gaffer tape to affix the mic to clothing. It works pretty much all the time.

2. Packs

Under the shirt in the small of the back works pretty well, but when it doesn't I use a tensor bandage to wrap it around the talent's ankle. Just run the lav cable down their pants.

3. 1st AD

Honestly, I don't know what you can do here if reason fails. Maybe talk to the director or the producer?

4. Boom Op

If your boom op doesn't show, obviously you should find a new boom op. That said, if your boom op doesn't show up on the day of and you don't have anyone to replace them with, I'd just boom myself. Be sure to have a decent harness or shoulderbag so that you can wear all your gear and wield the boompole at the same time.

5. Cart

Can't help you here because I don't use one right now. Are you sure that you do need one?

6. Recording format

I can't really think of a reason not to record 24 bit, but 16 bit works too.

 

[Noiz2]

I'm mostly a post guy so I'm only going to deal with two of your Q's

3. How do you handle it when the 1st AD is arguing with you about whether a shot is MOS or not?

Yeah, this really happened. (I was arguing for the shot not being MOS)​

If there are bodies in the shot it's not MOS. From a post perspective even if I know I'm not going to use any of the production sound (the scene is supposed to be in the woods but is being shot under a freeway, etc), I WANT production sound. It speeds up ADR syncing and Foley and generally the whole post work, to know what was actually heard.

6. What freq resp/bit rate do you guys normally record at?

The sound designer wanted 48khz/24bit, so that's what I'm doing. Though normally I record 48khz/6bit.​

I assume you mean 48/16 bit. I work at 24 bit in post almost always and there is no good reason not to record at 24 IF your recorder supports it. It gives post a little more to work with for things like noise reduction and it sounds a tad better, though I'm not sure that is a very valid argument in production since other factors are going to hurt you a LOT more than a few bits. Like a bad boom op.​

 

[unclebob6958]

1. What kind of tape should I be using to put a lav on talent?

http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=935&cat=34&page=2

2. Wear should I hide the bodypack on active talent?

You hide it where ever it cannot be seen in the shot. I've used Ace bandages to secure the body pack to the leg or torso, sometimes backed up with gaffers or medical tape.

3. How do you handle it when the 1st AD is arguing with you about whether a shot is MOS or not?

To echo Scott (Noiz2) go to the director or producer and politely but firmly inform them that sound is ALWAYS important and that the audio post team will be saved time/money - always important when on a low budget.

4. What is the best way to handle the production's boom op. not showing up, and not being able to get anyone else on short notice?

Do it yourself; it is a skill you are going to need anyway. Many indie projects use a boom-op who is also the production sound mixer, so it is not an unusual situation.

... any advice about booming and mixing would be helpful.

Set your levels carefully and set up your harness for ease of use. Learn proper booming techniques.

6. What freq resp/bit rate do you guys normally record at? The sound designer wanted 48khz/24bit, so that's what I'm doing.

24bit/48kHz is fine. When I do audio post I'm usually at 24bit/96kHz; 24bit gives you a little more headroom and I seem to get fewer artifacts when doing the digital processing at 96Khz.

 

[ptalsky]

Vger,

I'm going to take your questions a bit out of order:

Tape: I use a tape called hypafix. It's a rather expensive medical tape that is generally used to hold IV lines in place. It is pourous, and I can actually tape directly over the mic head. It works great, but it does leave a bit of residue. I also tend to use a generic version of the Dr. Scholl's corn pads before I tape to help "protect" the mic and avoid clothing rub.

Cart: My first cart was a wire rack on wheels from Home Depot or Lowes (don't remember which ). It cost all of $49 and worked great, and will work great for you given your current equipment list. Eventually you will outgrow it, and it's not the greatest for rolling for long distances, but it fit in my back seat without breaking it down, which was another benefit. I'm now using a Rock N Roller 12 with two shelf kits so I get a two shelf cart. It works great, also breaks down easily and holds a ton of equipment.

First AD: You didn't really describe what the scene is, so it may be appropriate to shoot in MOS. If you really feel strongly that it isn't MOS, then bring it to the directors attention and let him/her make the decision. If they still say MOS, note it carefully in your sound log (including the date and time you discussed it with the director) and let it go. Ultimately it's not your movie, so they will suffer their decisions in post.

Boom Op: I've converted more PA's to boom ops than I care to remember. Train them as best you can and hope for the best. Or, if you've got a good bag/harness, boom it yourself. You've got the right equipment to do that with.

Hiding wireless Tx's: I bought a bunch of wireless holders from Trew Audio and use those exclusively now. I got really tired of pulling sweaty Tx's out of the back of actors pants, so now everything goes on one of these. You can wrap it around their waist, around their thigh, or around their ankle. I've done each of these, depending on the wardrobe and the shot.

Good luck with your project. It sounds like a great learning experience for you, even with the frustrations you've been experiencing.

Phil

 

[vger]

Thanks for your responses!

1. Tape

Alex: I'll try gaffer tape next time and see how it works. I used to use electric tape, but the black would sometimes show up.
​

unclebob: maybe with my next purchase I'll try that. Though it seems as though it would be difficult to manage (do you have to cut it out?) and I can't tell how much it comes with.

Phil: hypafix does seem expensive. What do you use to clean the residue off the mic

​

2. Pack

I like the look of the holders on Trew Audio, though I can't afford them myself at the moment and the production has $0 for audio. I did however pick up an ace bandage, and will try that out soon.
​

3. AD

So, here's the full story. In the script the main character is high and we do a cut to slow motion of him painting, and yes in the script it is without sound. In preproduction, the shot was discussed (with the 1st AD present), and the decision was made that we should capture sound. This particular scene had 3 actors on a couch playing video games and acting high. Both the sound designer and I brought up the point that there was no reason not to capture sound, and if the director might decide in post that he needed those sounds.
​

4. Boom Op.

I have ended up mixing/booming myself, and managed to get a boom op some days. The problem with a PA, is that this shoot doesn't have any. And on the rare days we do, they get relegated to gripping or art department before I even know they're on set. I've got a PEGZ-1 and realize that I should get a harness. Now, that I'm more used to it, it isn't so bad. This is the first time I've worn it for more that a couple hours and it was really painful the first day.
​

5. Cart

Alex: I do think I need one. This production has a lot of equipment. In my first post I only listed the major pieces of gear, but there is more (cables and accessories mostly). I usually use a backpack and my mixer bag, but all the gear won't fit in it.

Phil: Thanks! I got one last night and it was a big help! I picked up a set off cheap plastic drawers today, and put the gear in those so it was more organized and protected from the elements.
​

6. Record

Noiz: I did indeed mean 16bit. And on student projects I record at 48khz/16bit because supposedly that is what the presets for FCP are, and that is what they ask for. On, the professional stuff I do, I go strait into camera.

unclebob: The sound designer said that 96khz was only important if you were going to do a theatrical release, and since this movie doesn't plan on doing that we should record at 48khz. I don't know if this is true, I only know that was his reply when I asked him why to record like that.

​

Thanks again everybody, you've been a big help!