Questions about getting started

M

myzz

New member
Hey guys!

I'm a 26 year old guy who have been dreaming about becoming a director since the age of 12, but I've so far never taken a single step towards that goal.
I won't give you my entire life story here but essentially the dream came at 12, I did nothing about it for another 12 years and at 24 I came into inheritance money and became that "despicable person" who thought it would be wonderful to do what I want to do; but ends up doing nothing.
I'm tired of the life I'm currently leading and want to follow my dream.

With that out of the way; with no discernible experience or knowledge, how does one get started?
If I was 15 I would probably just pick up my iPhone, gather a few friends and go for it. But at 26 and with a smaller circle of friends I don't view that as an option.
My main interest doesn't lie in making feature film either, I'm really interested in shooting commercials/short films for "fashion/glamour". I don't like those terminologies but I guess they give the best description. But a strong focus on beauty and telling a short story along with it.

Am I completely out of my mind thinking that one way could be to self-fund a short like the ones I want to do, to learn and maybe (altough unlikely as my first project) use as a portfolio piece?
I'm one of those people that want to do as much as I can on my own, but being that I have no experience yet I either have to first attain that experience and knowledge and then do a short; or self-fund a short, and in a lot ways lean on other professionals, to learn as I go.
But maybe I'm being unrealistic? I mean the thought of showing up to a set, that I've paid for and brought everyone together to, and go "I have no idea what I'm doing, but let's do this" is a bit ridicoulus. If the DP asks me how I want to light/shoot the thing, while I know what the vision in my head looks like, maybe I can't communicate it properly since I don't know all the inside-terminologies and whatnot. Or at the very least I have no idea how to attain it, but maybe that's up to him anyway?

And if I should gather some more experience and knowledge first, how would I go about doing that?
I don't have any contacts in this industry (I live in Sweden as well), I have no people close to me that would be willing to help out and I'm a bit hesitant to apply for "fetch-me-coffee" jobs. Altough even if I did swallow my pride there, those aren't easy to come by anyway. Many people want those to get close "to the action" and many of them are filmstudents etc and have way more experience to bring, even to such a simple task, than I do.

Well enough rambling. If anyone has any input it would be greatly appreciated. Always great to hear what others think, especially when they are more seasoned in the subject than yourself.
 
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First of all, welcome to the boards! I hope you get the help you're looking for here.


There are three ways to approach this, and I think if you have the liberty you should pursue all three.


1: Research

Read a lot of books. Do this as often as you have the time. There are books out there on every possible subject of filmmaking. A few recommendations I would give are Directing Actors by Judith Weston and Screenplay by Syd Field. Be sure you read books on cinematography, editing, directing, screenwriting, etc. Even if you have no interest in pursuing those things specifically, if you want to direct it is of absolute importance that you have a decent knowledge of EVERY aspect of the filmmaking process. Even though directors (lucky ones at least) are surrounded by people who are much more talented than them in their specific areas, the director needs to be able to communicate his vision and speak the language of the craft.

Also watch as many movies as you possibly can. If you don't have one already, get a Netflix subscription immediately. Specifically if you are interested in fashion/glamour work (which is an awesome field to get in btw), I would suggest trying to watch films that have a focus on stunning visuals and atmosphere. I would especially recommend the films of Tarsem (especially The Fall) as his films basically play like the coolest fashion spread you've ever seen. The way I tend to watch movies is try to be receptive the first watch, and then the films that really effect you, go back and watch as many times as you need in order to understand WHY they effected you.


2: Just do it

Buy a camera. I would recommend a DSLR to begin with, because they have good bang for your buck and use interchangeable lenses. Write a short screenplay. Find ANYONE. Shoot the thing. Edit it. Rinse repeat.

Obviously this is a lot harder than it sounds. I too ran into the issue that you are having of not having enough people to just go and do something. Sadly the hardest part of being a filmmaker is not actually the making of a film, it's the finding people who are willing and interested enough to help you make the film you want. You better get used to this because it doesn't really change.

But I promise, you CAN find the people. If there are any local universities, that's a good place to start. Join any film society in the area. Post ads on the internet if you have to. The important thing to remember is that this is YOUR dream, and no one is going to come to you and say "oh I see you have this dream, let me help you make it come true". Ultimately the responsibility lies with you, and you either go for it or you don't. This is the thing that tends to separate the successful from the bitter.

Once you find people who are willing, do NOT let them slip away. Perhaps a directors most key role, like any leader, is to inspire the people around him to give their best work. The good thing is that if you do your research you will at least be able to fake it until you make it, and if you are confident enough most people will believe you even if you really don't have a clue what you're doing. Just don't even let them see you sweat.

3: Get work as a production assistant.

I know you don't want to be a "coffee fetcher", but realize that no one does. It's not glamorous, you are looked down upon on the set most of the time. But almost everyone starts as a PA. The film industry has a very strong sense of needing to pay your dues. Think about it, someone's been working in the industry for 30 years, they don't want some mid 20's kid to come and be on equal ground or above them. Never underestimate the egos that go with the film business. Also realize that most successful directors didn't get their feature film debut until their mid 30's. It's just the way it is in the film business.

All that being said, don't think you won't learn anything as PA. I had the luck of being a Post Production PA on a major feature film last year. My boss was an Oscar nominated editor and has worked on some of the most critically acclaimed movies of the past 10 years. Sure I did a lot of lame things such as dry cleaning, grocery shopping, basically anything else he needed. But I learned more in 2 months by simply being around such brilliant people than I had in 2 years of actually making my own short films. Plus I made good money :P
 
jghenderson:
Thank you very much for your reply!

As far as research goes, being a huge filmnut I'm watching more films than what is probably healthy.
But I haven't read any books to learn the insides of the craft yet, and I have to be honest and say I'm a bit hesitant to do so, even if it probably is for the best. And what I'll end up doing.
Reason for that being that I'm very much of the "tarantino/rodriguez" school of thought (not because of them mind you) that learning rules and imitating others only teaches you to do the same thing they're doing. May sound a bit ridiculous coming from someone who just confessed to not having done any filmmaking yet at all, but that way of thinking stems from my childhood essentially.
Long story short; I had an art teacher once (I used to draw a lot as a kid) who were constantly on my back for "doing it wrong", he kept bugging me "you don't hold the pencil like that, you don't draw it like that, you don't bla bla.." and finally I had enough and yelled back "No I do it that way" and maybe some curse words thrown in there. Needless to say I was thrown out of class and wasn't allowed to come back (had to talk to the principle of the school to still get a grade).
That being said, I'm sure there's some really good books that are more subjective than others. And I agree that I do need to learn as much about filmmaking as possible, from all aspects. Even if I don't end up wearing all the hats, like you said; I can communicate my ideas better.

Regarding the "just do it part", which I also agree with, do you think my idea of hiring some competent people to help me get going with a short is a bad idea?
Since I can't find free help and would have to resort, like you said, to asking around at uni's and similar places which most likely requires me to pay them even if it may be less than a professional. I guess I'm just thinking that I may as well pay a DP etc as well rather than picking up a DSLR myself, since that would set me back even further.
By that I don't mean financially, but in terms of lighting and the overall look of the film, due to my lack of knowledge. And while learning on my own with a DSLR can be tons cheaper, I guess I had the idea of doing that "on the side" anyway and also learn as much as I can from the DP that I hire.
I don't know, I mean it's definitely not a common way of doing things, but the thought crossed my mind when thinking about Richard Williams (Animator), whom employed the people he admired to learn from them. Altough of course when he did this, he already had a great foundation of knowledge and experience.

Again it may be an unrealistic and overall dumb idea and I'm not pushing it to "get the answers that I want to hear", but more because it was skipped over in your post (which is fine!). :)


EDIT:
Oh and I apologize; thank you for your recommendations (books & film).
Altough if I'm not completely off base here, didn't Tarsem make Immortals? I haven't watched it but I noticed in the trailer that he, if it is him, stole an entire scene from House of the Flying Daggers which I absolutely love. So that was rather tasteless.
That said I haven't seen The Fall and what I saw from Immortals in the trailer; while not engaging it certainly seemed to be all about the visuals. :)
 
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I completely understand where you're coming from. I too am of the school of thought that there are multiple ways to do something. If art truly is personal expression (though that can easily become complicated in the collaborative world of filmmaking) then it should be YOUR expression, not you expressing yourself the way others have told you to.

That being said, there is a certain advantage to knowing "the rules" before you decide to break them. Let's take screenwriting for instance. For whatever reason over the years, screenwriting has become the most structured form of writing I know of (except for maybe Haiku's). To be perfectly blunt about it, you could have a fantastic story, but if you don't write it in the "proper" structure of a screenplay that the industry has, nobody will read it. It will get thrown in the garbage. It's stupid (and one of the reasons I personally can't be a screenwriter) but it's the way it is. The film business is a very picky one and there are certain ways the industry thinks things need to be done.

I'll give another silly example. Clothespins are very useful in filmmaking, and used on basically production. But they're not referred to as clothespins. They're called "C47's". Why? It doesn't matter. The fact is if you were working on a set and someone asked you to hand them a C47 and you didn't know what that was, you would pretty much be considered at best a noob and at worst a complete idiot who shouldn't be there. I know this seems like a dumb example, but i'm trying to illustrate that the industry has a set of "rules" and that if you really want to succeed within it, you have to at least in part play by those rules.


For those reasons, I would encourage you to do some reading. You don't have to follow the rules the books lay out for you, but at least you will understand them. That way when you are on a set one day and someone disagrees with the way you want to do something, you can give them an actual reason for that instead of simply saying "because that's how I want to do it". You will never get anywhere in the industry if that's the type of answer you give people. For instance, i've read probably 5-10 books on screenwriting. My final conclusion after all of that is that the books are retarded. They are WAY too restricting in my opinion and the industry itself is way too obsessed with convention and doing everything with a formula. That's the conclusion I have reached, but I reached it because I understand WHY the industry has the opinion it does. This way in the future if i'm ever working with a screenwriter or a producer, I can give well thought out reasons for why something should be done another way.

Also I suggest reading Directing Actors because frankly getting an actor to do what you want is one of the hardest things you will ever do, and if you don't at least have some kind of knowledge to fall back on, i'm afraid your first few experiences directing will be miserable and you will probably cry yourself to sleep every night.



Ok, as for the second part, about hiring people to work on a short with you. First, don't underestimate the ability to find people who will work for free. The key is to find people who actually want to do this for a living. Most people who are new to the industry will happily work on a project for free because it's a resume builder for them. I personally would be hesitant to pay for people when you don't have any experience, because unfortunately the closest thing there is to an immutable truth in this line of work is that the first few things you make are going to suck. There is pretty much no exceptions to this rule. Even a director so highly regarded as Tarantino once spent a year or so making a feature film and at the end didn't show it to anyone because it sucked so much. BUT from that experience, he learned how to make a movie, and the very next year made Reservoir Dogs.

However I guess if you have the money, and you really can't find anyone to work for free, then just go for it. It's better than sitting around for a year because you can't find anyone.





P.S.- Yes Tarsem did direct Immortals, but I didn't see it so I can't speak as to him stealing anything from another movie. Even if he did, it doesn't bother me all that much. Most directors steal something. Heck, Tarantino has built an entire career on stealing ideas from previous films. Even so, you should absolutely watch The Fall. It's brilliant.
 
jghenderson:

Regarding learning the rules etc; fair enough, you make a good point and I agree with you.
And you are absolutely right about Tarantino and his first film that he made, in fact most people don't write Reservoir Dogs after their first try either, hehe. But he's a genius (in my book).
So in that regard it is of course more of a moneysink to hire people rather than finding other beginners to help out, since the first or couple of first projects have great potential to be shelved.
At the same time though I can't help but think that if I go that, albeit slightly crazier and unorthodox, route that I can soak up knowledge from the people I get to work with while also having greater potential of ending up with something I dare show others, than if I go off on my own with a t2i for example.
Also something I've noticed just in general throughout my life thus far is that when you surround yourself with people that are better than you, you tend to not only learn from them, but you step up your own game.
Working with people whom have similar lack of experience as I do may be more comfortable from a 'psychological' stand point, but it could potentially also be more 'damaging' due to the combined lack of knowledge/experience as well as the fact that learning could be slower. I guess it depends on the person as well.
But I also have some ideas that includes Photography, so picking up a DSLR in any case and start learning that is a good idea either way.
Anyway, that's just my crazy 'logic' at work. I realize that my lack of experience feeds naivety as well though. ;)

And about Tarsem. What Tarantino does and what Tarsem did is completely different, as you can actually witness here since I managed to find a comparison clip on YouTube, seems someone else noticed that scene as well;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRe_iIcY5yQ

That right there is just extremely tasteless. But that's my opinion. :)
And I will definitely still check out The Fall, so thanks for the recommendation!

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and insight, much appreciated!
 
I definitely think being surrounded by people that are better than yourself is vital. As I said earlier, merely being an assistant to a big time Editor taught me more in 2 months than I had learned in a few years of writing and directing my own short films.

I guess my fear with this though is that I was an assistant, so I had the luxury to just sit there and soak up everything. A director however does not have that luxury. The director must be in control at all times and must seem like he knows what he's doing (even if he really doesn't). The crew will feed off your energy and look to you for confidence. Nothing will sink a production faster than an unsure director. Now perhaps you can deal with this and will be able to inspire the crew and get the DP and actors to trust in you. I'm just speaking from my own experience of things going pretty wrong when I was first starting because I didn't really know what I was doing and everyone around me could tell.
 
jghenderson said:
I definitely think being surrounded by people that are better than yourself is vital. As I said earlier, merely being an assistant to a big time Editor taught me more in 2 months than I had learned in a few years of writing and directing my own short films.

I guess my fear with this though is that I was an assistant, so I had the luxury to just sit there and soak up everything. A director however does not have that luxury. The director must be in control at all times and must seem like he knows what he's doing (even if he really doesn't). The crew will feed off your energy and look to you for confidence. Nothing will sink a production faster than an unsure director. Now perhaps you can deal with this and will be able to inspire the crew and get the DP and actors to trust in you. I'm just speaking from my own experience of things going pretty wrong when I was first starting because I didn't really know what I was doing and everyone around me could tell.
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You may be right. And I guess that's ultimately my concern as well and why I decided to post here; in many ways I think it seems like a good idea, but the biggest issue is that I don't know how it will play out and how I'll handle my role as a director.
As you said, if the director becomes unsure or is walking around like he/she doesn't know what they're doing; the production is probably in bad shape.
I can do a "guesstimate" of how I think I'll handle it, but as I mentioned before I'm also aware of my naivety at this point (thanks to life lessons learned!) and as such I try to tread carefully.
 
That's what I did, and why my first short was my most expensive. I had no idea what I was doing (beyond having read a lot on the subject), so I hired a professional crew (in all the key positions DP, Sound, editor, makeup, etc....) and learned on the job. In five days of filming I probably learned as much as I would have in a couple years of film school.
 
gonzo_entertainment said:
That's what I did, and why my first short was my most expensive. I had no idea what I was doing (beyond having read a lot on the subject), so I hired a professional crew (in all the key positions DP, Sound, editor, makeup, etc....) and learned on the job. In five days of filming I probably learned as much as I would have in a couple years of film school.
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That is extremely interesting, I haven't managed to find any "casestudies" of anyone else who have started this way. Most people tend to start on their own early on in life.
So would you recommend going this route?
What was your experience like directing a team of professionals with no prior experience yourself? And how did your short, in your own mind, turn out at the end?

Sorry for throwing so many questions at you, but I would love to hear more about it if you would care to share. :)
 
It was a good experience. I had read pretty extensively and had been on a couple of sets. I think that allowed me to fake it to a degree, as in they thought I knew more than I really did. I have a commanding personality as well, so I didn't let my inexperience stop me from "taking charge" on some level.

I'd say it's an average to slightly above first film. It has some pretty spotty acting and the pacing is terrible. It's 35 minutes and if I re-edited it myself today it would probably be about 20 minutes. Visually it's well done because I had a good DP and I did have a vision of what I wanted visually. It mainly falls down (as I said) because of some bad acting and the really poor pacing.

Here it is.
http://vimeo.com/11242311
 
"I'm one of those people that want to do as much as I can on my own, but being that I have no experience yet I either have to first attain that experience and knowledge and then do a short; or self-fund a short, and in a lot ways lean on other professionals, to learn as I go."
My advice-
Go with option A and don't rush things. It takes time to learn the craft. Buy an SLR and simple light kit. Then just start playing. Watch a movie similar to the direction you want to go and pause it. Study the shot and try to recreate it yourself. If you don't have an actor, get a large handpuppet and prop it up-We do this at work to light a scene before the actors arrive. Once you start to get comfortable with the camera, write a silent short film. Guess what, you just eliminated the sound guy and can focus on working with an actor and running camera. Edit it yourself. Learn how the pieces fit. Do another silent film if you feel you need to. Then bring on a sound guy for film three. Just keep making films, the will get better. Spend no more than a weekend shooting each short. The main thing is to practice by cranking them out. You'll know when you're ready to move on, and it may not be as far off as you think, but it will take some time. Though eventually you may not want to direct/edit/run camera yourself all the time, by doing it all yourself now, you'll learn so much more about those jobs than by watching others do them. This comes from someone whom does everything themselves (check out my sig) so take that for what it's worth. Best wishes
-El
 
The reason I used the method I did is that I made my first film at 43. I'm in a position where time is much more valuable to me than money. I felt I didn't have the luxury of spending several years using the method described above. I'm already really behind the 8 ball in this business because I can never be a "young up and coming director". I have a very short window to go from zero to success.
 
Reason for that being that I'm very much of the "tarantino/rodriguez" school of thought (not because of them mind you) that learning rules and imitating others only teaches you to do the same thing they're doing.
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Some suggestions:

Watch all of Robert Rodriguez' "10-minute film schools" - they're on the DVDs of his movies. Most can be seen on youtube. The best ones are on El Mariachi and Desperado, because he was really trying to impart as much vital knowledge in 10 minutes as possible.

If you only read one book, read Rodriguez' Rebel Without a Crew. It gives you a very good idea of how to make finish and sell a no-budget feature.

Learn to write. Directors who don't write (like Tarsem) are at a disadvantage in the biz. If you only read one book about screenwriting, read Save The Cat.

Make lots of short films. 30 seconds is a good length. The shorter they are, the faster you can finish them. You only get better after you finish the project and can see it for what it is.

Never make a short film over 12 minutes long. That's one of the big takeaways I've learned from the folks at Sundance, and from Kim Adelman, one of the most successful short producers. (She has a great book on making shorts, too.)

Watch the first two minutes or so of this video from Ira Glass. If you learn the lesson he's teaching, the process will go much easier for you.


Hope that helps!
 
Why do you want to direct? Is it to fell like everyone around you is listening to what you have to say? (they will during the production and the post then you will get the blame for the failure of the film). Or because it equals fame and fortune? (there are many other way easier way to attain fortune and fame). Or because when as a kid you watched Indian Jones you felt you always wanted to experience that adventure and it seems the directors create that adventure then it's a good way to go about it? (because directors create that adventure rather then experience it your outlook on things will change dramatically, so dramatically that you will never be able to "just have fun" the way you used to). Or because you have something to say to the world and film is the only art form you can imagine saying it (as opposed to writing, music, painting) and if so why do you believe that? (You haven't done anything to prove to yourself and others that you have particular skills in that art form).

There are many questions that one needs to face, truth is most people got into it for all the wrong reasons and only the ones who can transcend the shallowness of many reasons mentioned above have a go at a career.

To answer you question... Just like any other business else the film business revolves around film centers just like it would be very hard for you to study ice in Sahara desert it might be very hard (not impossible though) for you to practice filmmaing in a place that doesn't really have some kind of film industry. Thus the first step is find the "film industry." Second step, assuming that you already have something to say (a script in some form), figure out what it would take to make it happen (create 3 budgets: good budget, realistic budget and almost nonexistent-you-will-fail-budget - then see if it's something you can afford, if not don't go for the no-money-budget but find project that might require less $). When picking a project don't go for too long - by definition your first film will suck over all but that doesn't men you shouldn't aim to make it look, sound, play, be edited as good as you can afford it.
 
I hope you read this and receive it in the spirit it is given.

Look, whatever your reasons are you've had them for a long time. Be honest and learn story. Story has been around longer than even the great Aristotle. It is the principle thing. Gain an understanding of story that surpasses and respect it beyond anything else. Service it and love it. We should all be concubines to story. Yeah, it's like that.

Learn technique and learn craft. Use them all of the time. Study film, don't just watch. Find out about beats, throughlines, coverage, continuity, spatial relationships, emotional relationships through framing, composition, lensing, learn how to break down a script, learn how to use storyboards to help create coverage opportunities based on performance, etc... It doesn't take long to amass the information, but it does take a while to understand the language and speak it clearly.

Visual storytelling has a vocabulary. Sounds build words, words build sentences, sentences build paragraphs, paragraphs build compositions and ideas power them all... the same goes for visual language. I found that when I got into craft, I sounded like a douchebag, but yes, all of that esoteric stuff really does work.

Everyone begins with the same "foundation" and style is born out of that. Also, in your formative phase, and please hear me, avoid places like this like the plague! It is wonderful when you have a question after you have a firm foundation, but there are wildly differing opinions about every thing here. It's best that you have a very firm foundation before you get lost in this forrest. Once you have sure footing, this place becomes like the Royal Library of Alexandria and these people become human dynamos full of specific wisdom for specific situations.

Also, Tarantino directed a film before Dogs which he won't let anyone see because it is "so bad."
Genius is relative.
Technique, talent, and tenacity... that's the stuff.

Ignore the nay sayers and the bourgeoisie who thumb the noses they look down and heed the great advice that puts you on the path, like what you've gotten here.
I hope you direct for the rest of your life, and I hope to run into you on the red carpet!
Good Luck and welcome to the craft.
 
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pharpsied said:
Be honest and learn story. Story has been around longer than even the great Aristotle. It is the principle thing. Gain an understanding of story that surpasses and respect it beyond anything else.
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Even though the story is a building block of many films remember that filmmaking is capable of many, many other things other then the story.
 
I'd just like to throw in a quick thought about story. While of course story is important, I personally think Film is by nature much closer to music than it is to literature or theater or whatever. Obviously to succeed in this industry you have to be able to tell a story, but don't ignore the possibilities of film as a purely visual, experiential medium.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
Even though the story is a building block of many films remember that filmmaking is capable of many, many other things other then the story.
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I don't even know what this means.

jghenderson said:
I'd just like to throw in a quick thought about story. While of course story is important, I personally think Film is by nature much closer to music than it is to literature or theater or whatever. Obviously to succeed in this industry you have to be able to tell a story, but don't ignore the possibilities of film as a purely visual, experiential medium.
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Are you saying that music is purely experiential and has no story?

This is what I'm talking about, OP. Every decision a filmmaker makes should be about the best way to get the story out to the masses. When you direct actors, or camera, or whatever, it has to best serve the story. The management of assets is to be able to tell the best story while optimizing time and budget. Story is not just a block, it's the building, everything else is just a block.

Consider this, have you ever left a movie saying, "man, the grips did a wonderful job on that film," or "I loved the Rap version of Elizabeth where the whole movie was shot looking at her left big toe."
I am oversimplifying, but you get my point. How can anybody call themselves a director and not serve the story as the principle thing? Even commercials are mini movies that focus on the product in the context of people's lives and how it fulfills a need...

I am flabbergasted.
 
@myzz
PM me and I'll give you my list of book, films, resources, textbooks, whatever. Story, craft, technique, talent, tenacity- that's it.
 
Get an inexpensive camcorder and computer with editing software. Film yourself "speaking" the words from your original post and put it up on youtube. Film some stuff around your village and put it up on youtube. Interview some people and put it up on youtube. Do all this in the next thirty days and show us the youtube's and wait for feedback.
 
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