Question on Mixpre and H4n

L

linyingyen

Member
Hi,

Mixpre's tape-out is 1/8 unbalanced. (-10 consumer level line out)
H4n's has two 1/4 unbalanced input. (-10 consumer level line in)

is this correct?

if so, all I need to connect them would be a Stereo Mini 1/8" Male to Two 1/4" Male Cable.
Such as this one, right?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/256873-REG/Monster_Cable_101987_Stereo_Mini_Male_to.html

Is cable like this have a difference on balanced and unbalanced?
Also, would a 1/8 mono to 1/4 mono cable work? Is there a difference between balanced and unbalanced in this case?
What about 1/8 stereo to 1/4 stereo cable?


Thanks in advance.:laugh:
 
Last edited:
linyingyen said:
Hi,

Mixpre's tape-out is 1/8 unbalanced. (-10 consumer level line out)
H4n's has two 1/4 unbalanced input. (-10 consumer level line out)

is this correct?

if so, all I need to connect them would be a Stereo Mini 1/8" Male to Two 1/4" Male Cable.
Such as this one, right?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/256873-REG/Monster_Cable_101987_Stereo_Mini_Male_to.html

Is cable like this have a difference on balanced and unbalanced?
Also, would a 1/8 mono to 1/4 mono cable work? Is there a difference between balanced and unbalanced in this case?
What about 1/8 stereo to 1/4 stereo cable?

Sorry I am new to sound.


Thanks in advance.:laugh:
Click to expand...

That cable would work but Monster cable is incredibly overpriced marketing hype, good enough quality but several times the price it ought to run. You can find the same cable from other manufacturers for a lot less money that will work perfectly fine. I would venture to say you won't find a single inch of Monster cable on most Hollywood film shoots or professional broadcast studios.

1/8 TS mono to 1/4 TS mono would work but you'd only get the left channel signal coming out of the mixer.

1/8 stereo to 1/4 "stereo" would NOT work properly. The connectors are TRS (tip, ring, sleeve) on both ends. An unbalanced stereo TRS is tip = left, ring = right, sleeve = signal ground. A balanced mono TRS is tip = signal hot (+), ring = signal cold (-), and sleeve = shield. Sending a stereo output signal into a mono input or vice versa, with that sort of cable arrangment won't out work at all and I'm certain the Zoom's 1/4" jacks are mono, balanced if a 1/4 TRS plug is used and unbalanced if a TS plug is used.
 
Last edited:
Steve House said:
That cable would work but Monster cable is incredibly overpriced marketing hype, good enough quality but several times the price it ought to run. You can find the same cable from other manufacturers for a lot less money that will work perfectly fine. I would venture to say you won't find a single inch of Monster cable on most Hollywood film shoots or professional broadcast studios.

1/8 TS mono to 1/4 TS mono would work but you'd only get the left channel signal coming out of the mixer.

1/8 stereo to 1/4 "stereo" would NOT work properly. The connectors are TRS (tip, ring, sleeve) on both ends. An unbalanced stereo TRS is tip = left, ring = right, sleeve = signal ground. A balanced mono TRS is tip = signal hot (+), ring = signal cold (-), and sleeve = shield. Sending a stereo output signal into a mono input or vice versa, with that sort of cable arrangment won't out work at all and I'm certain the Zoom's 1/4" jacks are mono, balanced if a 1/4 TRS plug is used and unbalanced if a TS plug is used.
Click to expand...


Thanks so much Steve. Do you know if this is true?
Mixpre's tape-out is 1/8 unbalanced. (-10 consumer level line out)
H4n's has two 1/4 unbalanced input. (-10 consumer level line in)

I did some research, and emailed a couple people.
Most people agreed on H4n's part, but many disagree on Mixpre being -10 consumer line out.
 
linyingyen said:
Thanks so much Steve. Do you know if this is true?
Mixpre's tape-out is 1/8 unbalanced. (-10 consumer level line out)
H4n's has two 1/4 unbalanced input. (-10 consumer level line in)

I did some research, and emailed a couple people.
Most people agreed on H4n's part, but many disagree on Mixpre being -10 consumer line out.
Click to expand...

The MixPre's main out XLRs are +4 pro line level but its tape outs are -10 consumer level on 1/8 stereo. Do some thread searches, though, regardling the line in on the H4n. It's my understanding that it is an instrument level input such as coming off of guitars and keyboards, not a true line level because the impedance is off. Many people report issues using it with a mixer.
 
Steve House said:
The MixPre's main out XLRs are +4 pro line level but its tape outs are -10 consumer level on 1/8 stereo. Do some thread searches, though, regardling the line in on the H4n. It's my understanding that it is an instrument level input such as coming off of guitars and keyboards, not a true line level because the impedance is off. Many people report issues using it with a mixer.
Click to expand...

The following is the official email I got from Zoom.
I think from their reply, it is true line-level not padded down mic-level.


from ZOOM Info <info@zoom.co.jp>
to Ying-Yen Lin <linyingyen@gmail.com>
date Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 10:21 PM
subject Re: Question from H4n Owner
hide details Apr 26
Dear Lin,

Thank you for purchasing the H4n.

The XLR/PHONE input connectors of the H4n accept line signal via 1/4" phone cables.
However, the line input of the H4n is compatible with consumer audio equipment (-10dBu).
Since most mixing consoles output +4dBu, professional audio equipment level,
you have to turn down the master volume of the mixer to prevent input level over.

Sincerely yours,

|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
ZOOM Corporation.
www.zoom.co.jp
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
- Hide quoted text -


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ying-Yen Lin" <linyingyen@gmail.com>
To: <info@zoom.co.jp>
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 5:42 PM
Subject: Question from H4n Owner


Hi, I recently bought a H4n and realized both XLR and 3.5mm input are
mic-level not line-level. Is there any way for H4n to accept
line-level output? is the 1/4" line-level? Not padded mic-level but
line-level.


Thanks,


Lin
 
i've had to tell a lot of local people that mixpre to an h4n need a padded cable. best results i've seen have been using a line to mic padded xlr cables. you can call up trew or any other audio house and they can make you an xlr cable with a pad in it. trew has done it for a few people i know for around $30 per cable. i keep two in my kit for whenever i need them.
 
manglerBMX said:
i've had to tell a lot of local people that mixpre to an h4n need a padded cable. best results i've seen have been using a line to mic padded xlr cables. you can call up trew or any other audio house and they can make you an xlr cable with a pad in it. trew has done it for a few people i know for around $30 per cable. i keep two in my kit for whenever i need them.
Click to expand...

That would however be using the XLR out on the MixPre so yes it would need padding to get down to -10. The 1/8" "tape out" on the MixPre is already at -10.

I've been using the -10 tape out to RCA line in's on the Marantz and they don't need any other padding. If indeed the Zoom is a -10 1/4" line in then you should not need any padding.

That Monster cable would be a really bad choice going into the MixPre. That is a HUGE amount of strain on a very small connector. Ideally you want something with a 90 degree connector so your less likely to snap it off in the MixPre. If you feel the need for big heavy cables then I would go XLR with pads.
 
I think in theory everything here is correct, but I use the H4n + MixPre combo and fairly certain the H4n unbalanced input isn't at -10 despite claiming to be (it's actually hotter). The fix is fairly simple, just adjust the limiters on the mixpre until the signal running to the H4n is more or less un-clip-able. (i.e. lower the threshold of the limiter, so that it limits at a lower dBu value, so a lower signal is sent to the H4n)
 
linyingyen said:
What brand of cable do you guys recommend?
I had a Hosa XLR cable once, and it was just crap.
Click to expand...

Yep, Hosa is often iffy. Look for connectors by Switchcraft or Neutrik, cable by Canare, Mogami, Belden. Remote Audiio (division of Trew Audio) is one brand I've used that I like.
 
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