Question about scrims and arri kit I've bought.

Bubblegummonster

Bubblegummonster

Active member
Hello everyone.

I'm very new to lighting and after watching Barry Greens Lighting dvd decided to buy some lights to get me started. I bought this kit http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=72145&A=details&is=REG&Q= second hand from a nice chap on ebay. So now I have a few questions. One is about scrims. I know scrims reduce the light but are they based of stops. Do all scrims just reduce the light by one stop or do you get ones that stop down by two and so on.

I also will be shooting a lot of green screen. Is it worth trying to light the green screen using this light set up through something like silks or soft boxes or is it worth keeping these to light the talent and buying some soft light like flo's or similar to light the green screen?


As most a lot of people on here, I have a tight budget so really want to get the most just from these lights. If anyone has any other suggestions on what I can add to this kit to make them as versatile as possible, I'd be extremely grateful. I'll be using them for short indie films so locations could range quite a bit.

Many thanks in advance.

Peter
 
Maybe a real gaffer will chime in, till then, this is a great kit but you're going to have to broaden out your lights to light green screen. The secret to green screen is an even light across the whole backdrop. You'd probably be good to shoot two of your instruments into big pieces of foam core and let the big broad source bounce onto the background. And about scrims, just add more scrims to reduce light, but I've always just moved the light back and flooded it out more and used the scrims once I'm all set up and don't want to move the light set up.
 
A Single scrim has a green border and reduces light 1/2 a stop.

A Double scrim has a red border and reduces light 1 stop.

You can combine scrims to cut your light level appropriately.

Pick up an assortment of grades of CTO, CTB, Diffusion, and bounce cards. For green screen, Plus Green is also nice for pulling cleaner keys.

Depending on the size of your green screen, you may be hard-pressed using just these three lights to light the screen and talent enough. Green screen work requires a lot of light and exponentially increases based on the size of your screen. Softboxes will, however, widen the field and soften the edge of your light, so they will facilitate green screen lighting.

I shoot green screen content all the time at work. The screen is probably 12' high, 20' wide, and 15' deep. I use three open-face 1K's with 1/4 plus green and 250 to light the screen. I use one Arri 300W Fresnel to give a soft backlight/hairlight to each of the talent, a baby (1K) on a dimmer with a Chimaera for a key, and an Arri tweenie with a Chimaera for a soft fill. Some 150W peppers float around to provide pieces of light, depending on the kind of shoot.

Kino Flo's are a nice addition to a lighting package; there are more affordable fluorescent manufacturers, too. Kino Flo's are also relatively cheap to rent and come in multiple banks, sizes, and Kelvin temperatures.
 
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I think you may be just a bit short of enough instruments, and as dwelter said, the right kind of instruments, to light both your talent and a greenscreen. That's not to say it's impossible. Perhaps if you bounce the light as dwelter suggests, you could get a fairly even wash on a greenscreen, but I wonder if you would have enough light doing that. Depends on the size of the screen and the distance from the bounce mechanisms to the screen. And it would surely take at least two of your lights, which leaves you with just one for the talent. If it's a single person who's stationary, you might be able to get proper lighting with a single instrument and a couple of reflectors -- one for fill and one over the head for backlight. So, it's barely possible, maybe, to make this work if the conditions -- the size of the screen, and the way you'll use your talent -- are just right. Otherwise, you're going to need more light.

You can get some cheap flos from companies like Britek that come with softboxes and put out a lot of nice, even, soft light for the money. You might want to look into that if you have the budget. Otherwise, you'll need to be very creative with the light you have, or buy really cheap lights (like hardware store stuff), then figure out ways to diffuse it and get it onto the greenscreen in an even wash. Luckily, keying software is so much better these days than it used to be. Things don't have to be as perfect as back in the day ;-).
 
StuOS said:
Luckily, keying software is so much better these days than it used to be. Things don't have to be as perfect as back in the day ;-).
Click to expand...

It also depends tremendously what kind of camera/format with which he is recording.

Footage from an HVX200 is going to key a thousand times better than that from a DSLR.
 
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Awesome replies everyone, really really appreciate your input.

I thought I'd probably have to get at least one other light for the talent. So by the sounds of it, seeing as I've got 3 hard lights it would make a lot of sense to now get at least one soft.

As for the camera I'm using. I've just bought myself an Af100, although it's in the US at the moment (I'm in the UK) So I'm having to wait a few weeks before I get it. I've read a few threads on here and it seems to be pretty good for keying? I'm guessing a lot better then my old Canon XM2 (GL2)?

Would you say it's worth investing in green screen paint, they seem very expensive. Or should I just get some pure green colour from a hardware store, seeing as software has got so much better?


Again thanks very much for your replies.


Peter
 
Found on the web somewhere:

Chromakey BLUE: Pantone 2735

Chromakey GREEN: Pantone 354

Both should be FLAT finish

And:

Home Depot Behr S-G-430 ("Sparkling Apple")

And some people swear by gelling the wash lamps with Lee 748. I haven't tried it.

My tidbit to add is keep the screen lit 1 1/2 stops less than the key and the talent as far from the green screen as you can so you don't get green light reflected onto them.

Have fun.
 
For green screen flos will be better, however I have done some talking head green screen shots using two scrimmed 650s. I put them even with the talent about 4ft away on both sides and crossed the beams such that the left one was lighting the right side of the background and vice-versa. You will need to play with the focus, height and the barndoors to get this fairly even. Place the screen about 6-8 feet away from the talent. You didn't mention what type of cam you were using, but if it has a WFM, this will really help you with evening the exposure on the screen. When you move a light, you can see the change on the WFM. Hot spots will pop out. Think in terms of a green screen as two independent lighting setups; lighting the background separate from the talent.

A 650 is one of the most useful wattages, but you can get 300w and 500w bulbs with the same base, skip the scrims and reduce the heat.

Grant
 
Slondon, thanks for the tip on paints to use. I had a look at them and they seem ideal. Only problem is they're all based in the US and I'm in the UK. I'm guessing I can go into a local hardware store here and ask them to mix to a pantone colour of 354?


ggrantly, thanks for the great advice. I'm using an Af100 so it does have a WFM. It's good to know that I can still get a good key even if I don't have flo's. Great tip about the bulbs. That was actually going to be one of my other questions, but I forgot to ask. Is it more practical to change bulbs to stop down or just use higher wattage and stop down with other means. I can see advantages to both. Using other bulbs would obviously be less heat and less watts so less lightly to blow a circuit. But then I'm guessing having to wait for cool down if you need to keep changing the bulbs could be a pain? Where as Scrims and ND would be quicker? I guess the answer would be, it depends on the scene and how many shots need to be shot on that day...sorry I'm sort of thinking out loud here :)

Thanks again for the super advice.


Peter
 
Bubblegummonster said:
But then I'm guessing having to wait for cool down if you need to keep changing the bulbs could be a pain? Where as Scrims and ND would be quicker? I guess the answer would be, it depends on the scene and how many shots need to be shot on that day...sorry I'm sort of thinking out loud here :)
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You're exactly right. Having lamps of different wattages is great, but changing the lamps in a fixture should be something you do before you get to the set or before you start setting up. Changing bulbs during a shoot to bring down the light output of a fixture is impractical and time-consuming.

High heat and power consumption are a necessary evil of tungsten lights.
 
Jordan Scott Price said:
You're exactly right. Having lamps of different wattages is great, but changing the lamps in a fixture should be something you do before you get to the set or before you start setting up. Changing bulbs during a shoot to bring down the light output of a fixture is impractical and time-consuming.

High heat and power consumption are a necessary evil of tungsten lights.
Click to expand...

+1
Grant

A couple of Cool Lights FL455s would really help you out. Note that 3200k and 5600k bulbs are available.
 
BGM, regretably, I haven't managed to find and buy full scrim sets for all my fixtures. I use neutral density gels when I don't have the wires.
 
Point well taken. I do have an eclectic collection of gear, though, of various ages from both the US and Europe and some of the sizes are hard to find.

But yeah, I'm too cheap to buy them all. The only real drawback of the gels is it's not as convenient for feathering in a little something across half the beam such as when preventing a lamp from lighting an actor too hot when he gets near it. I use .15 ND - half stop.
 
Thanks pointing me in the right direction Slondon.

Ggrantly, I've had a look on cool lights website but can't find the model you've mentioned, Is it a discontinued model? I've found a Cl 455, is that the same?
 
He means CL-455. That is our studio model. There is also the CL-455P which is the portable, lightweight version. Hope this helps.
 
I hadn't thought to mention Cool Lights for scrims. They have them in sets and are much more thrifty than the Arris.

Grant
 
Thanks again for the great tips.
Cool lights (Richard?) Thank you for taking the time to reply I really appreciate it. I sent your site an email yesterday asking if you have any retailers in the UK, and if not how much it would be to ship two of these lights. Is this something you'd be able to answer?

Many thanks


Peter
 
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