Purchasing Advice

olsonbock623

olsonbock623

Active member
First of all, you should know that I'm 16 years old, and I've been saving for awhile with the intention of getting some decent equipment to make some movies with. I'm getting tired of crappy consumer cameras and cheap editing software. So I've decided that I have up to $4,000 to spend on a camera. I'd like to make the best investment I can, obviously. I'm leaning heavily toward the dvx100a. My dilemma is that I'd like to have a camera come this summer, and I'm aware that the FX1 and other new HD prosumer cameras are going to arrive and I don't want my dvx to be obsolete in three years if HD is going to be dominant. Also, I have a decent computer (athlon xp 2500, 512 pc2700 ram, nvidia 6800 128mb), and I think it would do for dv editing, but maybe not for HD. I don't really have the funds to make many upgrades in the near future. Any advice or comments?
 
Re: Purchasing Advice

Well, obviously everybody here loves the DVX.  As far as it being "obsolete", I don't see it as an issue.  It does what it does, which is make videos that look remarkably like film. Will something better come out? (24p with hightr resolution, or 24p tapeless, etc) Certainly. Will that make yourr camera less effective as a filmmaking tool? Nope. 

I'm not an expert on HD, but it's not the same as 24P.  It's high definition video.  Apples and Oranges.

In the realm of your PC.  512megs of RAM is a minimim.  You can never have too much of that, or hard drive space.

And I just gotta say that I wouldn't have been able to save 400 bucks at 16, much less 4 thousand.  Kudos.
 
Re: Purchasing Advice

hello, olsonbock. Well I was in your shoes, about two months ago, same age and same amount of money. I understand its a huge decision, you earn all that money and you don't want to get something you regret later.

For months I had looked up reviews and information on the AGDVXA well, looking at pictures reading spec. charts then I stumbled across this forum well that was the best thing that ever happend.

But thats besides the point, ok well I had made up my mind to order the cam. in Oct. alittle after my birthday, but there was rumors of the XL-2 going around and how it might be the best thing since sliced bread.

Well at first I was wondering maybe, I should just wait and see how good this XL-2 is. The more I thought about it, it made me realize that the Panny was for me. So I went with it and have never regreted my decision.

Well I don't know if this helps probably not, but theres always something better in the future, but if you wait then something else will replace that and wait again, it too will be replaced.

Well hope this helps, Oh and best of luck on your decision.
Edgar Valdez
 
Re: Purchasing Advice

I used to often have this same struggle over buying computers. I was afraid to buy a system because I knew a better one would come out in the next 6 months.

Then a couple years ago I decided that it didn't make sense to keep waiting for that next better system. If I waited and then bought the new one when it came out, well another 6 months or year later there would be an even better one. How long could I justify waiting? I decided at that point that when I was in the market to buy a new system, I would buy the best system I could afford at that time and not fret what came down the road later. And, if in a year, I realized I needed whatever the latest/greatest system was, then I saved my money and when I was ready to buy... I bought the best system I could afford.

Hope this helps,
Larry
 
Re: Purchasing Advice

Dear olsonbock,

You are getting some good advice, these camera's, like computers, are constantly being improved with new models every couple years--- you can see all the speculation and wish lists about new cameras by looking around the threads on this board !

The one thing to consider, in my opinion, given the $4,000 budget and your desire to buy something to use for a few years, without feeling you had last years techology, is 16x9.

If you are not purchasing until summer 2005 wait and see if Panasonic announces a true 16x9 version of the DVX 100 at the National Association of Broadcasters show in Las Vegas in April 2005--or if some other manufacturer announces something to consider whose availability is acceptable and is in your price range.

I think - but it is only my opinion - that for the next few years wide screen will be a bigger deal than HDV for most purposes, but the Sony FX1 is within you budget -- the Pro version due next year will probably be over $5000 -- and the Sony may not have certain features of the Panasonic DVX100 series.

Good Luck--

Bill Turner
Century Division
Schneider Optics
 
Re: Purchasing Advice

Over the next few days, we're doing an extensive camera comparison that will put the FX1, XL2, and DVX through their paces in a series of tests that should really get to the bottom of which camera is best for which purposes.

Regarding HDV: standard-def will be with us for a long, long, long time. It's difficult to find the statistics, so if anyone knows what the real numbers are, please share, but:
From what I could find, there have only been around 4 million HDTV sets sold worldwide. 2 million of those are in Japan. So in the US, there's about 1.5 million HD sets, out of 108 million households. That's a market penetration rate of around 1.4 percent.

Sure, HD set sales are stronger now than they've ever been, but HD has been "on the table" for 20 years, and it's only now gotten to the point where there's any sort of broadcasting or distribution going on. Digital cable has 600 channels of standard-def, and about 8 high-def channels. Which can only be seen in about 1.5% of the households nationwide.

Don't sell standard-def short yet. There's no medium for distributing HD product to the consumer either -- the only way a consumer can get HD material is through broadcast, as there's no consumer HD decks or consumer HD-DVD's out there. The # of JVC D-VHS decks out in consumer hands is infitesimally small.

So to get product out there, for at least the next several years, you're talking about DVD. And DVD is standard-def, and will always be standard-def. Some day there may be high-def DVD's (HD-DVD or Blu-Ray) but when will they be common enough to justify being treated as a viable market? Certainly not for years.

The US may never go high-def. Europe may never go high-def. Japan will/did, but that doesn't mean any other countries will. SACD (high-def audio CD's) has been on the market for a while, but it certainly hasn't made much inroads in distribution, has it?

HD is better than SD (although whether HDV is truly "better" than DV remains to be tested). But just because HD is better than SD doesn't mean that the market/consumers will embrace it. SACD is better than CD, but it's so far been a flop. DCC is better than audiocassettes, but DCC flopped too.

I'm not saying to not get HDV if that's what you want. All I'm saying is, there may or may not be HD in our future, but even if there is, standard-def will be with us for many years to come. Many years. Even if the US ever does switch to digital broadcasting, keep in mind that the mandate is *not* to high-def broadcasting, it's to digital television... and 12 of the 18 ATSC modes are standard-def, not high-def. So a broadcaster could choose to never switch to HD, and still be in complete compliance with the FCC DTV mandate.

Just something to think about. (and lest anyone think I'm an HD-basher or HDV-basher, let me just point out that I ordered the first Z1 that EVS gets!)
 
Re: Purchasing Advice

[quote author=Bill__Turner link=board=Links;num=1101760292;start=0#4 date=11/29/04 at 16:36:30]
wait and see if Panasonic announces a true 16x9 version of the DVX 100 at the National Association of Broadcasters show in Las Vegas in April 2005[/quote]

Bill, I just pee'd a little. If Panasonic drops a 16x9 on the market this spring I would be trilled beyond description!

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=Links;num=1101760292;start=0#5 date=11/29/04 at 20:16:15]Over the next few days, we're doing an extensive camera comparison that will put the FX1, XL2, and DVX through their paces in a series of tests that should really get to the bottom of which camera is best for which purposes.

[/quote]

This should be exciting. looking forward to it! What kind of tests do you have planned?
 
Re: Purchasing Advice

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=Links;num=1101760292;start=0#5 date=11/29/04 at 20:16:15]HD is better than SD (although whether HDV is truly "better" than DV remains to be tested).  But just because HD is better than SD doesn't mean that the market/consumers will embrace it.  SACD is better than CD, but it's so far been a flop.  DCC is better than audiocassettes, but DCC flopped too.[/quote]

Yep, and Betamx was a better format than VHS. Being "better" isn't always best.
 
Re: Purchasing Advice

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=Links;num=1101760292;start=0#5 date=11/29/04 at 20:16:15]  (and lest anyone think I'm an HD-basher or HDV-basher, let me just point out that I ordered the first Z1 that EVS gets!)[/quote]
I second that statement. ;) You are #1 on the list, and we just got clearance from the manufacturer to place our first bonafide order for 25 of the cameras. No word on ship date yet though.
 
Re: Purchasing Advice

Thanks for your input everyone. The dvx100a seems to be a very tried and true piece of equipment, and I think that I would at least know what I was getting and what I could do with it if I bought one. Waiting to see what comes to the table in regards to 16x9 cameras also seems like good advice. That was one of my concerns with the dvx. Can anyone tell me if the decrease in resolution is noticeable to the average person using the camera's "squeeze" mode? Is the xl2 better in that respect?
 
Re: Purchasing Advice

I've never done a direct comparison, but from what I've read (here and elsewhere) the difference between squeeze and letterbox is negligible. Your concern should be more about how you will show your end product. If it's going to be on a 4x3 TV, but you want it to look widescreen, I'd go with letterbox. It's simple to use and easier to frame than squeeze (for me anyway). If your end product will be on a widesceen TV, it might be worth going the squeeze route, because that's how your video will play (as opposed to 4x3 with black bars on the top and bottom). If you plan on blowing it up to say 35 mm, you should go with the anamorphic lens, which will give you the best widescreen picture.
 
Re: Purchasing Advice

Our friend Ken (kplo) just talked to me about "A Day without a Mexican" being shot on DVX's, and while he wasn't neccessarily involved in the story line, he said it was one of the "best DV to film blowups he had ever seen". The man has 30 years behind film/video cameras, and he is a very discriminating observer, so I trust his opinion. :)

Anyone know if that had an anamorphic lens on it?
 
Re: Purchasing Advice

What I'd like to know is how the squeeze mode compares to TRUE 16x9?. As I understand it, both the squeeze and letterbox don't use all the camera's pixels. So, for instance, if I were to look at side by side footage shot with the anamorphic adapter and the other with the camera's squeeze mode, would I be able to easily notice that the squeeze footage was worse quality?
 
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