Pulling out...

Chamber005

Chamber005

Carbonite Member
So kind of a sad but also probably a good, some private equity guys I know have shown some interest in helping me produce a feature based on my webseries. Totally and completely awesome on the surface, but it means having to walk away from the entire point of what I was doing.

I had this idea that I could release the webseries and get feedback, etc, grow an audience, while I learn (which has been awesome and great and I've gotten really good feedback -- which I've even implemented in the 3rd episode that I already shot and edited). The problem is they're getting all businessy with me, which is TOTALLY understandable but means that I might end up having to take the series off line.

Their position (and I'm good with these guys, I trust them as much as any solid aquantence) is that they want me to form an LLC for the production, take everything off the web including the guts of the website regarding the property, and then I'd be free to release the webseries as a single entity once the LLC and all of our negotiations were finalized. Their reason is because they want to purchase part of the LLC that holds the rights to the series, which I'm in (preliminary) agreement with.

Everything feels really cool about this, but it means that I'm going to be stuck creating something that I can't share, which means little to no feedback. I mean, I JUST started doing this. I'm concerned that without any feedback I'll end up with something that could have been better had I had feedback all along. Everyone I work with are just buddies who don't know the difference between a boom pole and a bong, right?! LOL The other option is I could hire someone to work on the series with me, to sort of ensure a certain quality was being met, but that wasn't the original INTENTION of doing all this. *I* wanted to learn on a zero budget while getting consistent feedback from my peers and audience members.

The entire point of all this web stuff was to learn filmmaking, that's it. But I started writing script after script and got talking about it with some guys who could help me realize it all and now I'm kind of in a weird (but not completely bad in ANY sense) position.

The ONLY thing I can think to do is to ask them if they'd be okay with letting me show a few people (other guys I know here, for instance) some of the stuff as I go on just to make sure that I'm doing everything correctly. The problem is they feel the web series is whatever I want it to be but they're not about investing any money into it (which is understandable, heck I'M not even investing any money into it!!). The feature is something I won't have to be as concerned about because I'll have hired help (DP, sounds guy, etc as well as much better equipment) and they'll be providing the bulk of the funds.

In the end this isn't really a legal question, it's like a learning/artistic one. I feel SO incompotent as a filmmaker and a make-up artist, and while the 3rd episode looks much better, we did lots of rehearsing, rented the Countryman lav mics, etc, I'm just nervous that without the feedback from my audience and other filmmakers I won't know if I'm taking the right steps.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure this isn't a normal set of circumstances, but does anyone else have any experience/advice on something like this? Do I chuck the feedback/critiques for some certainty that the feature that follows the webseries will have additional funding (at which time I'll have HELP with the film), or do I say thanks but no thanks and just tell them that if they're still interested they can come on once the series is finished?

Bottom line I'm planning on re-shooting the first two episodes anyway, so I feel like that's going to be stunting to the audience regardless, AND I have SUCH A SMALL AUDIENCE! It's like under 300 people on the facebook fan page. Once I'm at 3,000 or 30,000 it's going to be much, much more difficult to turn around and say that I have to stop everything because of some "deal".

I thought it would be at least 5 years before I even had to start dealing with this kind of stuff, and maybe I should just ignore everything and every offer until then -- until I feel like I know what the heck I'm doing.

Any advice from a CREATOR'S perspective? Ironically I feel completely confident in the business aspects of all this, but if I end up with something that could have been better it's there forever (and, who knows, it could even HURT the final product of the film, right?). I just don't know.

I am definately going to take the holiday to consider all this, but it would be great if any of you guys could chime in.

Thanks!
 
Generally better to take opportunities as they come and not worry too much about the whole "legacy" thing IMO.

It's easy to think that a mediocre film will follow your career around like a bad smell, but I'm not convinced that's really the case.

A lot of the Directors at the very top of the game now had some right stinkers in their formative years.

You are confident in yourself as a writer. The script is the most critical part. You can, to a certain extent, "cheat" the images/technical side of things by merely getting in heads of department who are absolutely top class. People who have produced quality work consistently and can carry you.

As long as you prepare very well and be completely open with these people, it will turn out better than you expect. Get a DP who is gifted and creative and he can help you to work out the shots well in advance of the shoot and his experience will mean he will be able to get all the coberage you need etc taking the pressure off you.

It depends on what the investors expect though. Film can get pretty nasty when there is big money involved and a massive production is not the best place to learn the trade if things start to unravel.


Preparation is key to any film. You can storyboard, do test shoots, block everything out well in advance of a shoot. You can work out an extensive shot list, then move quickly on set with the help of a great first AD and then give yourself time to correct any **** ups at the end of the shoot. Worst comes to the worst, you can always re-shoot the por bits as well.
 
DecadenceFilms said:
Generally better to take opportunities as they come and not worry too much about the whole "legacy" thing IMO.

It's easy to think that a mediocre film will follow your career around like a bad smell, but I'm not convinced that's really the case.

A lot of the Directors at the very top of the game now had some right stinkers in their formative years.

You are confident in yourself as a writer. The script is the most critical part. You can, to a certain extent, "cheat" the images/technical side of things by merely getting in heads of department who are absolutely top class. People who have produced quality work consistently and can carry you.

As long as you prepare very well and be completely open with these people, it will turn out better than you expect. Get a DP who is gifted and creative and he can help you to work out the shots well in advance of the shoot and his experience will mean he will be able to get all the coberage you need etc taking the pressure off you.

It depends on what the investors expect though. Film can get pretty nasty when there is big money involved and a massive production is not the best place to learn the trade if things start to unravel.


Preparation is key to any film. You can storyboard, do test shoots, block everything out well in advance of a shoot. You can work out an extensive shot list, then move quickly on set with the help of a great first AD and then give yourself time to correct any poo poo ups at the end of the shoot. Worst comes to the worst, you can always re-shoot the por bits as well.
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That's what I was thinking too (about a "first film" not following you). And especially since this is a webseries that will eventually end up on DVD, I can't imagine people crucifying me for it being of a "web series" quality.

Like I said, my biggest concern is that I won't get the education (or, consistent educational feedback) I was hoping to get from the web series. It's going to take quite a few months to finish so it's not like I have to run in and shoot the film tomorrow or anything -- we all want me to finish the webseries first (I'd probably all but piss myself if they told me to start working on the film today). But is it true that if I just surround myself with lots of professional and talented people on the shoot of the film, the final result will be more based on the DP, sound tech, lighting guys, etc rather than on my own technical expertise?

The whole thing is kind of whirlwindy, so I'm trying to stay focused on what matter most -- but that seems to be the FINAL PRODUCT, right? I mean, I'm going to be spending the rest of my life learning about filmmaking.

And I'm not even POSITIVE that they won't let me release the webseries once all the business stuff is structured (which would be sooner than it takes to actually complete the series). I think they're just saying they want the LLC formed so they can purchase a percentage of it (via funding of the film).

I don't want to mix too much of the business stuff with what my purpose of doing this was, though.

Bottom line, will it hurt me to not get that feedback episode to episode? YES. Will it hurt me more than (potentially) turning away producers? (???) Probably not? I think (I think) it makes more sense to just accept that I'm NOT going to have the experience I wanted to have going in and just accept that this is potentially a BETTER experience and outcome overall. I think that these guys would wait for me to do whatever I want to do anyway, but I don't KNOW that. They could both get hit by a bus tomorrow -- so could I! I kind of feel I just want to do WHATEVER they tell me to do so long as it's not sacrificing the INTEGRITY of the piece overall, which none of this is. It's only affecting my own education which will continue with whatever I decide to do.
 
Man, getting the money together for a large project is one of the hardest things about filmmaking. If you have that set up, you are a long way ahead in the game. Write the best script you can, find good collaborators (especially a good DP and I would seek out an experienced editor you can work with) and go for it. A completed feature will help you more than a well made web-series. IMHO.
 
David G. Smith said:
Man, getting the money together for a large project is one of the hardest things about filmmaking. If you have that set up, you are a long way ahead in the game. Write the best script you can, find good collaborators (especially a good DP and I would seek out an experienced editor you can work with) and go for it. A completed feature will help you more than a well made web-series. IMHO.
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100% without a doubt I agree with you on the webseries/film thing. I actually had the idea of proposing some different ideas besides The Overs, but a part of me feels like they want to use this as a stepping stone. I just got that indication from them. It's not like they're some strangers who saw the series and said, "I gotta find the guy who made this!!" LOL These are just some guys I know who are looking to get into the game (though from a slightly different position than me). I think they like the idea of the webseries and that being my thing and that what they'd be doing would almost feel like a sequel -- something that already has a road map.

I don't know, I feel like I should just nod and smile and shut the f&*^ up. Maybe all this is just me being scared that I'll ACTUALLY have to go and shoot a film with part of the money coming from someone else (and it is only PART of the money as I originally planned to self-produce the whole thing on a really low budget).

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. I know the money thing is one of the primary issues, and, honestly, the only thing I'd be trading away would be that constant feedback. I mean, that is the ONLY thing I'm losing in all this.
 
Chamber005 said:
That's what I was thinking too (about a "first film" not following you). And especially since this is a webseries that will eventually end up on DVD, I can't imagine people crucifying me for it being of a "web series" quality.

Like I said, my biggest concern is that I won't get the education (or, consistent educational feedback) I was hoping to get from the web series. It's going to take quite a few months to finish so it's not like I have to run in and shoot the film tomorrow or anything -- we all want me to finish the webseries first (I'd probably all but piss myself if they told me to start working on the film today). But is it true that if I just surround myself with lots of professional and talented people on the shoot of the film, the final result will be more based on the DP, sound tech, lighting guys, etc rather than on my own technical expertise?

The whole thing is kind of whirlwindy, so I'm trying to stay focused on what matter most -- but that seems to be the FINAL PRODUCT, right? I mean, I'm going to be spending the rest of my life learning about filmmaking.

And I'm not even POSITIVE that they won't let me release the webseries once all the business stuff is structured (which would be sooner than it takes to actually complete the series). I think they're just saying they want the LLC formed so they can purchase a percentage of it (via funding of the film).

I don't want to mix too much of the business stuff with what my purpose of doing this was, though.

Bottom line, will it hurt me to not get that feedback episode to episode? YES. Will it hurt me more than (potentially) turning away producers? (???) Probably not? I think (I think) it makes more sense to just accept that I'm NOT going to have the experience I wanted to have going in and just accept that this is potentially a BETTER experience and outcome overall. I think that these guys would wait for me to do whatever I want to do anyway, but I don't KNOW that. They could both get hit by a bus tomorrow -- so could I! I kind of feel I just want to do WHATEVER they tell me to do so long as it's not sacrificing the INTEGRITY of the piece overall, which none of this is. It's only affecting my own education which will continue with whatever I decide to do.
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This all depends. Every Director is different. Some luxuriate in working with actors and bringing out performances, others like to concentrate on visuals and are technical wizards who know everybodies jobs inside out and there's everything in beween.

It's all about what you want to do and what you want to be.

To get really good at something, you need to spend a long time practicing it. It's as simple as that. If yopu want to become a master at everything, you'll need to spend a long time practicing each facet of filmmaking.

At some point you'll almost certainly find that you'll want talented specialists doing what they have trained to do alongside you.

Now, in your formative years it's invaluable to practice all the facets of filmmaking and garner a fundamental understanding of them. Editing helps the Directing (teaches you about pace, continuity, covergae etc) and all the fields of filmmaking inform each other. If you undertsand the importance of sound design, you can learn how to make sound an integral part of the script/shoot etc and so it goes on with everything.

Filmmaking is pretty much every art rolled into one, dance, music, literature, sculpture, painting, photography.

Becoming a master of them all is a time consuming process and there just aren't enough man hours to become a master of them all, especially if you are a late srarter to the game.

Film is a colloborative medium. The Director is responsible for setting the vision and then "directing" everyone's creative vision towards that goal.

Is it necessary for you to take all the attention? Do you want to be the auteur who chooses every angle to the millimetre, instructs everyone where the lights should go and runs the entire set? That's fine if you do, but you're going to have to get really, really good and you'll be putting a lot of pressure on yourself.

In a real colloboraton where everyone is using their creativity, there's much less stress and for me it's more plesasurable anyway. The Director still will get a lot of credit anyway.

Besides, you will learn an awful lot working with people who know what they are doing inside out. You don't have to re-invent the wheel and learn everything from scratch. Work with a top DP and in two days you'll learn an incredible amount just watching him set up the lights. Bang up a single light and make the whole scene come alive, whereas you would be fiddling with 8 or 9 and not get close to the same effect.

Entirely up to you though.

The final product as you say is surely the key thing, whatever stage you are at. There are no excuses in films, you don't get extra leeway or bonus points from audiences because you did all the work. They either like the film or they don't.

The only proviso to all of this is that it's imperative that you do comprehend the importance of everyone on set. In a big production, everyone is crucial. There are numerous people (by which I mean types of film set employees) who you won't have worked with yet who may well be of critical importance in a genuine production. If you don't know why they are needed and don't hire them because of that, you may find that you are well short of manpower on the set and the whole thing may become a mess.

In some ways that is something you can only learn by doing it. You don't necessarily know you need them until you do, if you know what I mean.

A lot of beginners will shoot without a top first AD, for instance. At some point there will be a time in your filmmaking education when you realise why all these roles exist and if you are in the middle of a massive production and it's all going hideously wrong, you've not got loyal back up or resources, then Directing can be a very lonely job indeed. Enough to break a man in truth.

Ity's a horrible feeling being totally out of your depth, so whichever way you go, just make sure you are fully aware of what is going on and be prepared for everything.
 
Thanks again for the great advice. Though it only made me feel more queasy. LOL

I think I'll FEEL a lot different, though, as I progress just filming stuff for the webseries. Maybe now that I know I won't have to be overly concerned with HOW my first feature will be made (in a budgetary sense), I can focus moreso on just really hunkering down and getting as good as I possibly can in every aspect I can manage prior to having to start filming (the feature).

The two things that seem to be the most innate in me is the writing/storytelling/editing, and then some combination of stage/set direction and working with the people (including the talent) on the set. I think it's all the technical stuff that can't exist in a sort of "I was just born with it" kind of way. I mean, no one is born knowing how much light a scene needs or how to tweak sound levels, these are technical things that involve technical instruments. I know how I want a shot to look but I'm only just beginning to learn how to get there.

Maybe what I'll do as I move forward with doing the webseries (assuming I do go with these guys and so have to stop the sort of "live" release) is start finding and working with the talent who I can then choose to (or choose not to) work with on the feature? I've been really apprehensive about bringing on any other people besides my friends because I thought it might curve my learning process (like, if I bring in a sound guy I'm going to not be so focused on learning about sound because I have someone there taking care of it). But if I brought them on in an educational capacity, like maybe I bring on a sound guy for an episode and work with him and then the next episode I bring on a lighting person, then a DP, etc and then maybe by the time the series is done I'll have my crew and I'll have experienced really focusing for a time on each of these areas.

There's no real deadline (yet) for when I have to be finished with the series and then begin shooting the feature, but I can't imagine it's going to be too much more than 8-10 months before they'll want me to start storyboards, auditioning, etc, which doesn't seem like a whole hell of a lot of time to learn everything I need to learn.

But it's like you said, even if the feature isn't GREAT and there's some mess ups, first time directors are often forgiven for their first time out. And I think we'll still have a good response regardless from fans of the original web series (assuming there are any! LOL).

It's a little more than I can digest right now, that's why I'm taking the holiday to mull it over, I'm pretty sure I'm going to do what they say so long as it doesn't conflict with the actual story elements ("my vision" or whatever), but they don't seem like they're at all interested in doing that. And it would be a first for all of us. So long as everyone is on board for the ride, I don't see why I shouldn't just kick caution and do it.

Thanks
 
When the stakes are small and the expectations aren't that high it can be a very good time to learn on the job and gain some valuable experience that you wouldn't be able to get in other deals. Very few people get paid so that is always a good thing.

Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.
- Theodore Roosevelt

Justin McAleece
http://www.redonerental.net
Justin@BLAREMedia.net
 
blaremedia said:
When the stakes are small and the expectations aren't that high it can be a very good time to learn on the job and gain some valuable experience that you wouldn't be able to get in other deals. Very few people get paid so that is always a good thing.

Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.
- Theodore Roosevelt

Justin McAleece
http://www.redonerental.net
Justin@BLAREMedia.net
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I agree, and though this isn't exactly me getting "paid", it would be allowing me to do the job without having to cover the bulk of the expense.
 
Okay, I watched the first episode, so I would know a little about what we're talking about.

You initially said, "helping me produce a feature based on my webseries."

I must say I don't get what's up with his face. Then that strange talking mud deal. I'm a little lost. Because, my initial reaction was that this wouldn't work as a feature.

The thought of a guy doing all his interactions by phone doesn't work for me. It seemed like there would be endless dialogue and exposition. Now, I don't know what the hell's going on. I suppose I'll have to watch the other episodes (maybe even be fan 301, who knows?).

Do you think this would work as a feature? Is there a feature script? And then the question becomes: what are these guys offering you? How much money? What terms?

You may have a great opportunity. You could probably do some research on viral marketing and fan bases, and get them to change their minds about pulling the series offline. That is exactly the wrong thing to do from a business standpoint. Everyone agrees the opposite is what you need, to build a fan base, duh.
 
polfilmblog said:
Okay, I watched the first episode, so I would know a little about what we're talking about.

You initially said, "helping me produce a feature based on my webseries."

I must say I don't get what's up with his face. Then that strange talking mud deal. I'm a little lost. Because, my initial reaction was that this wouldn't work as a feature.

The thought of a guy doing all his interactions by phone doesn't work for me. It seemed like there would be endless dialogue and exposition. Now, I don't know what the hell's going on. I suppose I'll have to watch the other episodes (maybe even be fan 301, who knows?).

Do you think this would work as a feature? Is there a feature script? And then the question becomes: what are these guys offering you? How much money? What terms?

You may have a great opportunity. You could probably do some research on viral marketing and fan bases, and get them to change their minds about pulling the series offline. That is exactly the wrong thing to do from a business standpoint. Everyone agrees the opposite is what you need, to build a fan base, duh.
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LOL You're completely right about the webseries. The feature has nothing to do with the series except for using the same characters who are introduced in the series and the greater online piece. The webseries is about just one of The Overs just doing his job, living his life, etc when things start to happen.

So what I should have said is that they're helping produce a feature based on the characters in the webseries, I guess. The entire point of doing the webseries, and even in working with one of the performers who lives in Australia and who is going to be handling shooting stuff herself, was to operate on a zero budget in order to learn filmmaking while minimizing losses. So I wrote a story that occurs in one location for the webseries. The larger piece, though, is much more "normal" in terms of locations/structure/character interactions, etc. And even this series has other actors coming in and out of the house (which first occurs in the 3rd episode I already shot), but it's all just ONE character's story from his perspective.

Basically I structured it so that the deeper the viewer got into it (e.g. going to the website, etc) the more they would discover about the story, etc.

As to the exact terms we haven't established anything yet because I haven't decided whether or not I want to move forward (though every hour I'm more and more certain that I'm going to take their offer of assistance). We talked about something as simple as a threeway match (e.g. I put in 30K and then so does each of them). If I decide to do it I'm pretty sure that would be the preliminary place where we'd begin and then if anything comes up I'm sure we could work that out accordingly.

We're not talking millions of dollars or anything. I think it would end up being about a 100k budget. But the way the script is written, knowing the prices of the equipment, talent and help, 100k seems pretty doable as we'd be stepping out of Chicago and shooting more in rural Illinois/Michigan using two primarly locations we already own.

The bottom line is that I retain all rights to my property for all future use and they understand that (and if I decide to move forward my mom's lawyer is going to handle everything for me as I've never had need for a lawyer for anything like this but she's awesome and has awesome people). If I do this it's strictly a business venture with them (and I've gotten the indication that that's all they're really interested in -- the investment side of producing). It WOULD probably mean that for as long as I produce films, comics whatever with these characters they would always get a small percentage of it. But if things go well then we'd be forming a kind of future (strictly business) partnership anyway which would probably mean they would invest again.

I would absolutely 100% not even be considering doing something like this with any of my properties if I didn't know and trust the people I'm doing it with and getting all the legal specifics to my liking. But I think the one deal that is NOT on the table is them just investing/producing THIS picture. The conversations have been about the PRODUCT now and moving forward with it. But this isn't the only thing I'll ever create, in fact this is something I created SOLEY for the purpose of learning.

And in the end it's all pretty small beans compared to I guess the big productions out there, but for me it would mean getting things off the ground sooner than later AND there would be backing (two-fold) in the event anything goes wrong and we need a few extra bucks.

I need some turkey in me before I finally say yes, lol, but for all intents and purposes I'm probably going to move forward. Already the conversations with both of them (but one inparticular) has just had me invigorated (and feeling more secure overall).
 
Chamber005 said:
it would be great if any of you guys could chime in.

Thanks!
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Regarding the amount of feedback the webseries would or wouldn't afford you, which seems to be one of your personal sticking points, I'm pretty sure you could get just about as much *quality* feedback from screenings for selected individuals and groups in a non-public way (or semi-public, like inviting selected people here by PM to a password-protected viewing site). Feedback is invariably a wild card any way you get it (like JonathanLB here, posting that "everyone I know agrees that 'Titanic' was complete crap" etc...). As long as you had a large enough sample of intelligently chosen viewers (eg: don't ask for opinions from people who look down their noses at Sci-Fi Action/Fantasy films what they think of "Star Wars"), you should be able to draw intelligent, productive conclusions from them. Consistent complaints are key. If a large number of people think aspect 'x' is a problem, it probably is. If few 'issues' are common among reviewers, and many people (genuinely, which is key, and not always easy to tell) seem to like it, you're probably pretty much ok.

I suspect feedback on a webseries might average out a lot like it would from any other source - a mixture of too kind (especially for first-time filmmakers), too harsh, complete rubbish (re: the fellow I referenced above), and thoughtful/informed/honest. That (the latter) is all you really need, and I don't think your chances of getting it will be all that terribly much less without the webseries.

I'd start the feedback process with the script - put it up at zoetrope.com or triggerstreet.com (assuming your backers will permit that, and they should, IMO) along with other selected readers. You might also want to hire a professional script reader. I've never employed one, but I'm told there are many good ones out there.

Regarding that specifically, I'll say that for my money, the six most important elements in a successful film, especially a low budget one, especially by an unknown/first-time filmmaker, in hierarchical order, are:

1. Storytelling
2. Storytelling
3. Storytelling
4. Script
5. Acting
6. Everything else

: )

Just my $.02, and apologies in advance to JonathanLB who is most certainly entitled to express his opinions, no matter how at odds with mine or anyone else's they might be...
 
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Ted Spencer said:
Regarding the amount of feedback the webseries would or wouldn't afford you, which seems to be one of your personal sticking points, I'm pretty sure you could get just about as much *quality* feedback from screenings for selected individuals and groups in a non-public way (or semi-public, like inviting selected people here by PM to a password-protected viewing site). Feedback is invariably a wild card any way you get it (like JonathanLB here, posting that "everyone I know agrees that 'Titanic' was complete crap" etc...). As long as you had a large enough sample of intelligently chosen viewers (eg: don't ask for opinions from people who look down their noses at Sci-Fi Action/Fantasy films what they think of "Star Wars"), you should be able to draw intelligent, productive conclusions from them. Consistent complaints are key. If a large number of people think aspect 'x' is a problem, it probably is. If few 'issues' are common among reviewers, and many people (genuinely, which is key, and not always easy to tell) seem to like it, you're probably pretty much ok.

I suspect feedback on a webseries might average out a lot like it would from any other source - a mixture of too kind (especially for first-time filmmakers), too harsh, complete rubbish (re: the fellow I referenced above), and thoughtful/informed/honest. That (the latter) is all you really need, and I don't think your chances of getting it will be all that terribly much less without the webseries.

I'd start the feedback process with the script - put it up at zoetrope.com or triggerstreet.com (assuming your backers will permit that, and they should, IMO) along with other selected readers. You might also want to hire a professional script reader. I've never employed one, but I'm told there are many good ones out there.

Regarding that specifically, I'll say that for my money, the six most important elements in a successful film, especially a low budget one, especially by an unknown/first-time filmmaker, in hierarchical order, are:

1. Storytelling
2. Storytelling
3. Storytelling
4. Script
5. Acting
6. Everything else

: )

Just my $.02, and apologies in advance to JonathanLB who is most certainly entitled to express his opinions, no matter how at odds with mine or anyone else's they might be...
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Thanks for the input. I'm 100% positive that they would not agree to me posting the script anywhere online, nor would I have any desire to do so. The primary reason they want me to take the series down is that they want all of their interests insured prior to me further developing the product for a viewing audience. That is the only debate in all of this -- my only sticking point. I'll still be able to release the web series, but at that point their names will be attached to the product (including the webseries though they're not helping to produce it with me). It's not about them investing in the feature so much as it's them investing in the product overall (but they seem adamant about their investment strategy being focused soley on entities with prospective returns -- which makes total sense to me, I'm not arguing their position).

The conversations seem to be leading us towards something like a 3-way split on the actual feature. Regarding all other aspects of The Overs not pertaining specifically to that feature they'll still be entitled to profit shares, but at a much lower percentage. So, while none of us really think DVD sales of the first season will be much of anything, whatever the sales numbers are would yield them something like 10% while the profits on the feature would be more like 50/25/25. But we're ALL new to this so there's a learning curve for all of us. I think they're both interested in investing in me and specifically what I want to do on this project but we're all moving cautiously towards a final resolution.

In regards to the script for the feature, though, (and the other scripts be them for the webseries, comic books, animation, etc), my entire artistic process for the last decade has been about writing exclusively. I'm confident that the few people I allow to look at my stuff have a pretty keen eye, but even moreso I'm confident that I know how to create and execute a good story and script.

The finer points of directing and filmmaking is where I'm the most nervous, but, again, I'll have the opprotunity to shoot the entire webseries before I have to move onto begin the process of shooting this feature, so I think that so long as they allow me to share with a few select individuals the webseries "dailies" I'll be okay as we move forward.

And, in addition, I'll absolutely be able to have the webseries released well before we start actually shooting the feature, so although I won't have as much time to respond and improve upon feedback, I will at least be able to have the benefit of it -- and I'm definately going to have other professionals (in as much as we can budget for them) on set to help me through the process.

But, yeah, I agree -- script and story is paramount. I'm confident that the webseries and the feature both are on considerably solid ground in both regards.
 
aside from all these issues discussed here, you have to decide whether or not you wish to work collaboratively as a director or individually as a filmmaker. that's how i look at it.

you are being courted as a potential movie mogul by interested investors. it's maybe what you don't want, but for the overwhelming majority of people trying to become film directors, this is the best case scenario.

i agree with ted, you'll get both feedback and experience regardless

however, for me there is another issue here: a web series is different; it's not classical filmmaking. it may be that web series will be more relevant and lucrative in the future than cinema. i hope not, but i don't know:)

good luck with deciding...
 
Okay, so it's Sunday, Thanksgiving is done, and I've decided to take the money and move forward.

I flew out to Baltimore (and then drove onto Delaware) for the week and spent the entire time writing scripts and formulating outlines for the next 9 years of stories LOL. I think there was a part of me that felt if I do this I want to make sure I know where I'm going, how I can get there, and what kind of budget I'll need. So I wrote the first 2 seasons out and outlined 4 more seasons and in addition to the first feature script I outlined 3 more. I even started putting budgets together for the lot of it. lol

I've got an appointment with my mom's attorney and her accountant, so I'll let you guys know how that goes. Overall I'm feeling good about all of it. So long as I can crank out quality scripts and focus intently on the technical aspects prior to the feature, I think I can manage.

Also, I did have another conversation with the guys and it looks like I'll have to put in 10k less than I originally thought, which is really cool. 30k would have literally tapped me out in terms of what I can delegate to any creative endevour (and I told them as much). We'll have a 90K shooting budget (tentative) and if we run into any major problems that can't be tweaked within that 90K, the guy I'm closer with told me that he could put together an additional 5K as an emergency fund (and I'm sure if it's the difference between finishing or not I can cough up a couple grand more myself).

So that's it. Slightly anxiety-ridden, but having an idea of where and how things are progressing has me feeling a little more at ease. I think I'll do the whole telling the fan page and taking down the videos thing after the Bears/Vikings game -- in which the Bears, of course, will beat the snot out of the Vikings and change their 4-6 destiny playoff bound! HOOF! BEAR DOWN MUTHA F^&*ERS!!

But yeah, I'll let you guys know how the lawyering goes!

EXCITING! GOOD THINGS! All about the yay!
 
So my head is literally splitting in two from the new developments on this project. I spent months creating an entirely "new" format for this piece to be viewed. It involved people watching the webseries and then going online and entering a password to actually engage in the same site the characters were utilizing, thereby being able to read the character's blogs, comments, hear songs they played and videos they made, as well as photography, etc. PAINSTAKING work to create and maintain.

The original intent of the deal I made had me doing the series the way I intended and then doing a feature based on the property afterwards, but now all of that's changed and my head is full of rocks, no joke, as I've literally had to develop an entirely new framework to exhibit the piece.

I was terrified enough when I was doing the thing, always worried about audience feedback, etc. But now I'm off to create something that REALLY has never been attempted before (hence the quotes around "new" earlier as the format I'd been using for the current piece was only so "new" in the specifics as that kind of multi-media delivery has been attempted in different forms in the past) and I am literally scared out of my brain.

The ONLY good thing (and maybe all that matters in the end) is that the money and the production will start now, not later; and, more importantly, the piece will exist as I never imagined it could.

It's all a GOOD thing, but as I've stated in this thread, I was counting on having time to devlop my craft further before moving forward. I'm still (solely) financially responsible for an entire aspect of the piece, as well as being a financial contributor to the secondary aspect, so I'm still going to try to do all the stuff I'm responsible for on that original no-budget mark as it was originally formatted.

Just crazy and delirious. It's all good, but I have a JOB, you know? I have a day job (work from home though it may be) and now I have THIS -- all of it. I know it's right to do it now and to do it this way, but it makes me want to continuously vomit nonetheless.

Wish me luck!! I'll keep you guys updated!! (I don't even know what to say on the fan page. Maybe I'll say nothing at all as everything's changed AGAIN. I'm going to start looking like an a$$hole. That, and I can't be too specific about the changes to the format as it's all hushy until it's released).
 
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