Prometheus trailer

[Batutta]

This.

I still love Alien -- I think it's levels above Prometheus in every way. But Scott got away with a lot of cliche horror twists and turns and bumps in the night that people aren't giving him the benefit of the doubt on with Prometheus. I agree that Shaw stating from the beginning the entire point of the film was a bit cheapening to the mystery of the rest of the film, and I don't get why Idris Elba's character randomly knew all that s--t about the alien creators making WMD's and whatnot. I even understand how people can be disappointed -- it's a movie about big ideas, and it doesn't really translate those well into a story. But the combination of the cinematic beauty, the two engaging characters (Shaw, and David), the ATMOM-inspired ideas about creation, and that damn alien abortion scene... it all made a pretty great moviegoing experience for me.

Also, that cat in Alien only existed to lure people into getting killed. Tell me that "Come back, Sparky!" isn't a major cliche in horror movies, leading to the deaths of the characters chasing after the pet.

-JMT

FWIW, I did kind of watch Alien as a "new film." Saw it for the first time, earlier this year (had seen Aliens already before, but wasn't as impressed). It's an absolutely amazing cinematic experience, regardless of its flaws, tropes, and cliches. The beauty of it, I think, is like MAH said: it's a slow burn, and we focus on the characters for way longer than we do in Prometheus.

EDIT: Apparently didn't see there was another page after the one I was reading...?

Just remember Alien was made before those cliches weren't so ingrained. I have no issue with the pace of Prometheus. The major difference between Alien and Prometheus is tone. Alien knew it was a horror film from beginning to end. It's a slasher movie in space and is paced that way, and the story a model of streamlined simplicity. The sci-fi elements are simply backdrop. I think the bottom line is that this prequel was just a bad idea, and it is a prequel despite the filmmakers protestations. Backstory is backstory because it's not interesting enough to be the story. If it were, they would have told that story first.


Oh, and I really didn't see what the big whoop was about the alien abortion scene. It was gross. It wasn't scary or startling, certainly not on the level of the first chestburster moment in Alien. You knew what she was doing, and what she was up to, so there was little suspense for me. The first time the chest bursting moment in Alien happened I and the collective moviegoing audience pretty much sh*t their pants.

Argh!!!! I really have to stop thinking about this movie. In the interest of saying something nice, I'll finish by saying it's probably the most well made bad movie I think I've ever seen.

 

[cpc]

Alien practically invented the spaceship-punk genre. It is one of the most copied aesthetics in the history of entertainment. Just count the countless (pun intended) films and games that draw on that.
It is also a nearly perfect thriller-horror movie. So nearly perfect, that even James Cameron thought it wise to turn the sequel into an action movie because there was no point in competing with the original into its genre.

 

[Batutta]

The exact same can be said of Alien.

Seriously, I watched it again last night for the first time in years, and it follows the same arc. Starts out slow and contemplative, building an atmosphere, and then turns into to people acting inconsistently, contradicting themselves, and doing stupid things which get them killed. And Ripley only survives in the shuttle because the alien, inexplicably, decides to take a nap.

If you watched Alien as a new film today, would you not come to all the same conclusions?

Wait, what!? No, the exact same cannot be said of Alien, and I watched again last week. Alien is a horror film from beginning to end. They are sent to investigate a distress call, go into a scary place and get killed off one by one. The crew are not going out of any scientific curiosity, and they don't ask or grapple with any lofty scientific or philosophical ideas. The audience, through the tone and the events and mounting tension are never primed to expect anything but a horror film. Prometheus starts off like it's 2001, asking all these intriguing questions about the origin of the species, and mankind searching for their creators, and ends up being a monster movie with all those previous questions left unresolved. Also, Alien even today is not run of the mill. It comes by its shocks honestly, through carefully built up tension and release. Prometheus, when the horror comes, just throws a rubber chicken at you and yells BOO.

 

[David Jimerson]

Prometheus starts off like it's 2001, asking all these intriguing questions about the origin of the species, and mankind searching for their creators

I don't think it really does that. Struck me as the standard MacGuffin -- we're going on a camping trip to celebrate the end of our senior year, etc.

and ends up being a monster movie with all those previous questions left unresolved.

As I said above, I think they were sandbagging for a sequel, and I didn't approve.

Also, Alien even today is not run of the mill. It comes by its shocks honestly, through carefully built up tension and release. Prometheus, when the horror comes, just throws a rubber chicken at you and yells BOO.

Well, I have to say the former isn't as good as that, and the latter isn't as bad as that.

 

[David Jimerson]

There are several reasons their behavior works in Alien. They are a bunch of roughnecks towing a mining vessel. The last thing they were trained or prepared for was dealing with a hostile alien species. They are forced to go by the company pretty much against their will to investigate. And they are shown as being at odds with each other from the very beginning even about petty stuff. That they don't handle the situation that transpires well is totally understandable, and consistent with their characters.

I was responding to MAH's description of what happened. They didn't work together and agree on what to do -- that's what I was saying.

 

[Batutta]

I don't think it really does that. Struck me as the standard MacGuffin -- we're going on a camping trip to celebrate the end of our senior year, etc.

Nah, come on. If they just wanted a reason to put them on the planet and assault them with monsters, they could have chosen simpler reasons, like say, a bunch of workers answering a distress call. They were reaching for a grander idea. What was the first scene about if not an attempt at a bigger idea? I realize some people may not really care about those ideas, so to them they were just waiting for the interesting stuff to happen, but as a fan of real science-fiction, that is the interesting stuff to me. Being teased with it for half the movie, and then getting bargain basement shocks in its place, was immensely frustrating. Perhaps if they had delivered on both fronts this hybrid monster mash up would have been more satisfying for me. But they totally bungled one half, and delivered something I thought was fairly routine for the other. I can concede that the horror aspects are more successful than the sci-fi ones only because its a lower hurdle to clear.

 

[David Jimerson]

Maybe I just went into it with a different impression of what it was supposed to be. Everything I read Ridley Scott say about it, he was trying to explore the Space Jockeys rather than the Origin of Man, while at the same time, giving it the "DNA" of an Alien movie. Seemed to me that seeding planets just gave them something to do, rather than some serious attempt at a highbrow sci-fi concept.

But I agree -- even the Space Jockeys weren't adequately explored, because he was sandbagging for a sequel.

 

[Gillvane]

Prometheus: Thought provoking or just bad writing?

Prometheus: Thought provoking or just bad writing?

Warning spoilers.


I watched Prometheus. Definitely visually stunning and some great scenes. But a great story? I didn't think so. And by "great" I just mean entertaining. Alien was a great story IMO. I found Prometheus to just kind of flail around and never really hit the mark.

This is what some other reviewers thought:

http://www.mercurynews.com/milpitas/ci_20850419/movie-review-thought-provoking-prometheus

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/08/showbiz/movies/prometheus-review-charity/index.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddi...etheus-is-a-visually-stunning-epic-failure/2/

I think it's going do be successful and do good box office, but I thought the story was not very good. I don't really want "thought provoking," I'd prefer a good story. In this case I think "thought provoking" is just a cop out for sloppy writing.

But I thought the same thing about the TV series Lost. I quit watching after episode 2. I knew immediately that it wasn't going anywhere and I wasn't going to stick around just to be let down. I've done that plenty of times before. Oh, this must be going somewhere. Surely this will all make sense eventually. Nope. Not really, ha ha, the jokes on you, thanks for watching!

Prometheus wasn't that bad, but it wasn't good. Is asking an unanswered question actually a story? I don't think so.

Do I like Pepsi or Coke? I don't know. The end.

Really makes you think about the whole Cola taste experience doesn't it?

 

[Eric Boellner]

Is asking an unanswered question actually a story? I don't think so.

Do I like Pepsi or Coke? I don't know. The end.

But does your story get better simply because you provide an answer to your question?

Do I like Pepsi or Coke? I like Pepsi. The end.

Same story, just as boring. The problem with Prometheus isn't that it didn't answer its questions (it actually answered the great majority of them), but that it delivered only questions and answers in lieu of a great story (while I loved the movie, I do agree that Scott + Lindelof failed to properly transpose the film's big ideas into an actual storyline, and because of this, the story felt flat and subservient to philosophical pondering).

No Country for Old Men was open-ended. It was a fantastic movie.

-JMT

 

[TheDingo]

I don't really want "thought provoking," I'd prefer a good story.

...I might be one of the few that are in the "Prometheus Rocks!" camp, but I will always take thought provoking concepts over story, though having both is always better.

I was checking out the book Prometheus: The Art of the Film which came out yesterday, and it has tons of amazing concept art that never made it into the movie for budgetary reasons. ( I wish Ridley had double the budget to work with ) The book also explains how different concepts evolved at the pre-production stage of making the movie, where some ideas were very tough to get right visually, and went through an extended process of trial and error as the pre-production progressed.

A bit of trivia: The largest Prometheus set was almost the length of a foot-ball field wide and the length of two foot-ball fields long.

 

[Gillvane]

But does your story get better simply because you provide an answer to your question?

Do I like Pepsi or Coke? I like Pepsi. The end.

Same story, just as boring. The problem with Prometheus isn't that it didn't answer its questions (it actually answered the great majority of them), but that it delivered only questions and answers in lieu of a great story (while I loved the movie, I do agree that Scott + Lindelof failed to properly transpose the film's big ideas into an actual storyline, and because of this, the story felt flat and subservient to philosophical pondering).

No Country for Old Men was open-ended. It was a fantastic movie.

-JMT

My point is not that an answered question is a good story.

My point is you need a story. Period. Whether you answer a question or not during the story is immaterial. First you need a good story. Now, if you want to ask a question during a good story, that's fine. And after that you can answer it. Or not. That's fine too.

You've changed the example by providing an answer to the question, but you haven't added a story yet.

 

[Gillvane]

...I might be one of the few that are in the "Prometheus Rocks!" camp, but I will always take thought provoking concepts over story, though having both is always better.

What would be the point of exploring thought provoking concepts with a bad story? Does it make the concepts deeper because the story is lacking, underdeveloped, or full of plot holes?

 

[TheDingo]

What would be the point of exploring thought provoking concepts with a bad story? Does it make the concepts deeper because the story is lacking, underdeveloped, or full of plot holes?

For me, it's only a bad story if you aren't willing to fill in the blanks. Prometheus has lots of unknowns that you can either see as a problem, or decide for yourself what the missing parts might be.

I remember seeing BladeRunner when it first came out, and I hated it because it kept only a tiny fragment of the story from Philip K. Dick's original novel ( a brilliant novel that somebody should make in to a movie based on the actual ideas in the novel ), while many, many film critics absolutely HATED the movie because they had no clue as to what was really going on. Here's a tiny sample of that: Roger Ebert's Original 1982 Review of BladeRunner

 

[Gillvane]

For me, it's only a bad story if you aren't willing to fill in the blanks. Prometheus has lots of unknowns that you can either see as a problem, or decide for yourself what the missing parts might be.

I remember seeing BladeRunner when it first came out, and I hated it because it kept only a tiny fragment of the story from Philip K. Dick's original novel ( a brilliant novel that somebody should make in to a movie based on the actual ideas in the novel ), while many, many film critics absolutely HATED the movie because they had no clue as to what was really going on. Here's a tiny sample of that: Roger Ebert's Original 1982 Review of BladeRunner

I loved Blade Runner. Still like to watch it. It does have some plot holes, but IMO it's a great story.

Who's our protagonist? Harrison Ford. What's his goal? He's got to find the replicants. Why doesn't he just say screw that and go drink beer? Because he's a cop and if he doesn't do this job the people in charge are gonna bust his ass. What happens? Things get bad. He finds a replicant, but she almost kills him. On top of that, he kills her which means he might not find out where the replicants are. Then what happens? Things get worse! He finds a girl he's hot for, but she's a replicant. Then what happens? Things get worse than that! Roy, the big bad replicant is going to kill him nad Roy is smart and a bad ass! But, in the end Roy decides not to kill him, showing mercy, a human trait.

Really good, solid story. Still filled with big issues about creation, God, playing God, what is a soul, etc., etc . And those questions are not fully answered.

But the story is good.

Why doesn't our protagonist in Prometheus die? Because a big alien squid kills the alien bad guy after her. The writers just pulled that out of their asses in a big Dues Ex Machina. That's not just leaving questions unanswered. It's poor story telling and sloppy writing.

Why not go back and do a re-write, and give us some information about our protagonist, or show us something our protagonist knows that she can use to defeat the bad guy?

That's good story telling. The protagonist either A. remains unchanged and because she remains unchanged, she triumphs. or B. changes, and because she is willing to change, she triumphs.

Not C. our protagonist triumphs because the writers pull a squid out of their asses.

 

[TheDingo]

re: Blade Runner : Really good, solid story. Still filled with big issues about creation, God, playing God, what is a soul, etc., etc . And those questions are not fully answered.

Did you check out Roger Ebert's 1982 review of Blade Runner, and see that his main complaint was the story.

You will see the same complaint in many Blade Runner reviews written at the time when the movie first came out. Many critics thought Blade Runner sucked, big time.

I don't have any real problems with the Prometheus story, but I know that some people do. To each their own.

 

[KurtF]

Haven't seen Prometheus yet, will probably go when it hits the discount, second run movie theater. Apparently, it's so loaded up with mythology and symbolism that the flow of the story doesn't fit into traditional movie making.

Anyway - here's a pretty insightful review:

http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html

 

[Cassius]

Why doesn't our protagonist in Prometheus die? Because a big alien squid kills the alien bad guy after her. The writers just pulled that out of their asses in a big Dues Ex Machina. That's not just leaving questions unanswered. It's poor story telling and sloppy writing.

Why not go back and do a re-write, and give us some information about our protagonist, or show us something our protagonist knows that she can use to defeat the bad guy?

She had identified that the creature was in that room, grown, and took a gamble that she could duck it and make the two aliens fight. It worked. That seems pretty easy to answer. I do get your point, but that example is a bit off. Your problem seems to be that not every event is meaningful enough and some story threads didn't connect. But that's not the same as the events being random chance and totally meaningless.

I didn't see a story that was supposed to make me think about our place in the universe. I saw a story about two scientists who hoped to find something they didn't.

 

[refocusedmedia]

But I thought the same thing about the TV series Lost. I quit watching after episode 2. I knew immediately that it wasn't going anywhere and I wasn't going to stick around just to be let down.

Definitely your loss, as it went to some amazing places. Even despite an underwhelming final season, it's still one of the best written shows on TV. And it's not always about the "payoff"..

 

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

I was responding to MAH's description of what happened. They didn't work together and agree on what to do -- that's what I was saying.

I still disagree with this somewhat. They rigged motion detectors and went out in groups, not alone, in order to find the Alien. When they came across the cat it made sense that they needed to find it, they even said so. They would just keep picking the cat up with the sensor. Sure, at that point they probably should have stuck together but they still thought this thing was the smaller than the cat. They couldn't have imagined the threat it had become.

It's not like it was a hissing alien snake warning them to back off in an unknown environment while they were surrounded by dead beings more advanced than they were. It's not like that at all. Those guys were complete morons.

Back to ALIEN; After that, they know they are dealing with a man sized monster. They stick in groups and Dallas comes up with a new plan after they discuss it. Pretty good plan actually. He goes in the tunnels, they seal them up. It gets near him, he blasts it with the flamethrower. The ALIEN blinks off radar and then comes back at him but they can't determine if its above or below him. He opts to get out but he's too late and it comes up behind him.

In all these cases they are actually talking about the ALIEN and trying to devise a plan to get rid of it.
Bottom line, these were people that were thrust into something they were completely unprepared, and untrained for. Yet they still made far better decisions than just about every trained specialist in Prometheus.

If Prometheus had a short list of missteps, it wouldn't bother me. But the list is too long.

 

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Wait, what!? No, the exact same cannot be said of Alien, and I watched again last week. Alien is a horror film from beginning to end. They are sent to investigate a distress call, go into a scary place and get killed off one by one. The crew are not going out of any scientific curiosity, and they don't ask or grapple with any lofty scientific or philosophical ideas. The audience, through the tone and the events and mounting tension are never primed to expect anything but a horror film. Prometheus starts off like it's 2001, asking all these intriguing questions about the origin of the species, and mankind searching for their creators, and ends up being a monster movie with all those previous questions left unresolved. Also, Alien even today is not run of the mill. It comes by its shocks honestly, through carefully built up tension and release. Prometheus, when the horror comes, just throws a rubber chicken at you and yells BOO.

Couldn't agree more. Well stated.