product idea
- Thread starter powerdog
- Start date
timapter
Veteran
few reasons:
1) cost. most people buying a camera dont EVER think about, or want to pay for audio added onto the camera. sanken and schoeps would charge a crap load for this Im sure.
2) versatility. shotguns are, well, long. some people may not want this on camera for some applications. "built in" means "like it or lump it". In this case, a built in shotgun WILL BE THE PERMANENT AND USELESS APPENDAGE.
3) it still wont improve the audio 9 times out of 10. Most often the problem is distance to target, not the actual microphone. The other one time, the problem would be that the shotgun would probably be the wrong mic for the situation (like in a big reverberant space).
BUT
heres an idea that could be interesting (though maybe not actually good). A modular system (like the blueline or even K6 series) with just the preamp built flush into the cam arm... then one man band users could get, say, a shotgun and a hyper cap to use. I dont think this would be highly effective, but certainly better than the cam mic.
At the end of the day, it makes more sense to not try and mingle audio and video technology because ultimately, audio just ends up compromising and thats NOT the way to improve your audio.
Besides, whats wrong with fitting a mic onto the mic holder on most cams? Its there for a reason.
1) cost. most people buying a camera dont EVER think about, or want to pay for audio added onto the camera. sanken and schoeps would charge a crap load for this Im sure.
2) versatility. shotguns are, well, long. some people may not want this on camera for some applications. "built in" means "like it or lump it". In this case, a built in shotgun WILL BE THE PERMANENT AND USELESS APPENDAGE.
3) it still wont improve the audio 9 times out of 10. Most often the problem is distance to target, not the actual microphone. The other one time, the problem would be that the shotgun would probably be the wrong mic for the situation (like in a big reverberant space).
BUT
heres an idea that could be interesting (though maybe not actually good). A modular system (like the blueline or even K6 series) with just the preamp built flush into the cam arm... then one man band users could get, say, a shotgun and a hyper cap to use. I dont think this would be highly effective, but certainly better than the cam mic.
At the end of the day, it makes more sense to not try and mingle audio and video technology because ultimately, audio just ends up compromising and thats NOT the way to improve your audio.
Besides, whats wrong with fitting a mic onto the mic holder on most cams? Its there for a reason.
ScoobySounds
Well-known member
how's this for a product idea..
i've been wondering for ages why a return feed from camera to mixer doesn't include a video signal, and mixers don't have just a small 2.5inch screen on the front, to give you a good idea of the frame.
i would love that.
i've been wondering for ages why a return feed from camera to mixer doesn't include a video signal, and mixers don't have just a small 2.5inch screen on the front, to give you a good idea of the frame.
i would love that.
timapter
Veteran
well, its not effective for critical sound recording, but a built in cam mic is in fact very useful for a few reasons (even if it IS an awful piece of junk):
1: allows you to just shoot for "fun", capturing ambi sound without complicated sound rig
2: allows stereo ambience recordings (not great quality, but they are there)
3: can help with syncing up double system sound in some cases (visual wave form syncing)
to sum up, its crap, but its handy occasionally. I think if they would just make the mics decently, not like fisher price toys, you'd find more use for them.
1: allows you to just shoot for "fun", capturing ambi sound without complicated sound rig
2: allows stereo ambience recordings (not great quality, but they are there)
3: can help with syncing up double system sound in some cases (visual wave form syncing)
to sum up, its crap, but its handy occasionally. I think if they would just make the mics decently, not like fisher price toys, you'd find more use for them.
timapter
Veteran
SCOOBY! heck yeah! Ive been wanting that for about a year and a half now, and its flippin possible dammit!
Some return cables have ten lines in them (2 for phones, 6 for xlr, 2 for.... stuff like video!)
It would be darn handy. Turn OSD on and we even get levels from the camera! Its even possible, I imagine, to send video down one side of the return signal, and split it off onto an RCA jack at our end.
The real issue is the monitor, i still cant find one that would do the job nicely.
Some return cables have ten lines in them (2 for phones, 6 for xlr, 2 for.... stuff like video!)
It would be darn handy. Turn OSD on and we even get levels from the camera! Its even possible, I imagine, to send video down one side of the return signal, and split it off onto an RCA jack at our end.
The real issue is the monitor, i still cant find one that would do the job nicely.
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
powerdog said:
Locally when I shoot something important, but not important enough for the Varicam, we may use DigiBeta or BetaCam SP... and we'll also be using a Sanken CS3 or maybe my AKG... but there are still times during the shoot when we'll just use the on-cam mic of the BetaCam... like somebody is close to the cam, like within a couple of feet, and the dialog isn't crucial but you want to have it. Basically some kind of on-cam mic is needed for convenience and for "just in case". I actually use my on-cam mic of the DVX more then I'd like to... but never for anything important... just for times when you need SOME sound to later know what the hell was going on. I may use one channel of the on-cam mic and the other going to a gun or wireless a long ways away... then I talk to myself so that I remember something important back at the edit bay. It's like verbal notes about a shot. I don't do this often, but it's nice to be able to if I want to.
I would mostly like your option above... I'd like it to be optional... but the on-cam mic is really small and the form-factor wouldn't change much w/o the mic up there... you still want that handle.
Finally... trust me they are VERY aware of anything that costs even $5 on the DVX... cost-cutters would NEVER let a mic that cost them hundred$ make it onto the cam... every box that's in the factory and on the shelves of retailers has that $100 bill (or WAY more then that) just sitting in there.
Frankly I'd like to see a big circle on the bottom of the cam... with a stainless steel or hardened steel nut in it... and I'd like THAT to be the tripod mount. I'd like it to have a slight funnel shape before the threads, just rounded in... so that the cam falls into place when you put on a QR plate... and I want it made out of bombproof material so that it can take a lot of hard tightening and still look like a solid tool... instead they gave us a bit of plastic that's 1/16 thick and it is only decorative covering surrounding the little tripod mount nut. How much do you think it would cost to have a metal circle about 3" in diameter with a really solid steel nut built-in? This would keep the cam from getting scratched up on the bottom AND it would look super-cool... people would just love flipping over the cam and thinking, "MAN they did a good job on this thing!" It would cost them probably less then a BUCK! But they give us the cheap plastic bottom plate...
It's ALL money man... it is ALL about the money. The bottom of the cam would be solid mag just like other parts if it wasn't.
So a pricey mic built-in? Never happen.
ikegamy used to work with Bayer few years ago ( ikegamy logo) , dont really know what are they selling now , the sony is the only camera which was supplying cameras ( Eng type) with some short of shot guns for no cost - all the others charged good money for **** products with their logo - espacilly Panasonic
so like the microphone companies dont make cameras ( except sony
) ,the camera makers do the same and not make mics, they buy it for cheap from the others and sell it to suckers with nice profit .
so like the microphone companies dont make cameras ( except sony
) ,the camera makers do the same and not make mics, they buy it for cheap from the others and sell it to suckers with nice profit .
wabbit
Evil has Ears
Why put a quality stock microphone on a camera who's audio recording is sub-par. A Schoeps pumping thru $.50 preamps, toy like A/D circuitry, and crappy headphone amp is fine if you must but would be a crime to sell standard. Kinda of like selling the Ford Focus with racing tires as standard.
If you want to petition the camera companies to invest in audio, start with the recording side before you bother with the microphone.
Cheers
If you want to petition the camera companies to invest in audio, start with the recording side before you bother with the microphone.
Cheers