Producing Feature Films on Super 16mm

El Gato Negro

El Gato Negro

Well-known member
Hello Crew!

I've been inactive on the forum for a few years now. For the most part I have revisited the forum from time to time just to check out what everybody has been working on. For the last three years I have been focusing on producing and line producing independent feature films. I still work on production in the AD department but producing has been my main focus.

To date I have produced 5 feature films already. Two in distribution, two in negotiations and one in post production. The first five films were in the 100k to $250k budget range.

After producing these features I can't help but coming back to producing feature films on 35mm or super 16mm. Shooting on super 16mm is still possible in the $500,000.00 to $750,000.00 budget range. Ideally an art house thriller or an emotionally raw drama would work best in this budget range and format.

Here are some notable independent films under a million dollars that were shot on super 16mm.

All She Can - http://www.benavidesborn.com/
Best Friends Forever - https://www.facebook.com/bestfriendsforeverfilm
I Believe in Unicorns - http://unicornsthemovie.com/

Eventually, I want to detach myself from shooting on digital and complete focus on shooting on film but the script, actors and visual scope has to justify it. Let's talk shop!
 
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also Black Swan was shot on super 16mm….
I've been working with film and it really is a stunning medium..in advertising I can budget film instead of an arri alexa rental and actually save money…(the main thing going into production is shooting ratio, something to discuss with your director )

here is a few ways to save money..
a. buy the camera..super 16mm or something like a 35mm moviecam..these cameras are super cheap now..
b. you can find short ends if your shooting on 35mm and kodak takes off around 30% for someone with a student i.d.
c. you don't really need post with film it's really good right out of the can…(just the one lite)
d. it's a discipline shooting with film... carefully plan your shooting schedule
 
Coming from someone who has produced 3 features on 35mm film, which I still love it today... why spend the extra cost for that budget range to shoot film... on average I figure its at least 50k to 100k to just shoot film..

Now on a studio level film... yeah I might consider it again....
 
GaryinCalifornia said:
Coming from someone who has produced 3 features on 35mm film, which I still love it today... why spend the extra cost for that budget range to shoot film... on average I figure its at least 50k to 100k to just shoot film..

Now on a studio level film... yeah I might consider it again....
Click to expand...

I think for films under a million Super 16mm is best. Shooting on 35mm on that scale is unrealistic. To me adding the extra expense is worth it for the right script. Not all scripts should be shot on film.
 
You might be interested in this on Vimeo:




For season 2 of "Atlantis", Dale McCready ran some tests. To see how well the Canon 5DIII with Magic Lantern Raw could be intercut with 35 mm film. He also tested the Red Dragon sensor.

Here is his set-up in the comments:

"Our main format to shoot is 35mm film but it's interesting to compare the other formats out there at the moment. I know the Alexa well so didn't need to test it but I wanted to look at how the smaller cameras would hold up and so tested my 5Dmk3 in Magic Lantern raw mode and also I was able to get the Red Dragon in also.

This isn't a precise test of latitude or fidelity, but a real world test of matching cameras to each other. The 35mm Kodak Vision3 200T film was shot on an Arri ST camera, processed and then scanned on a spirit before being imported into the Baselight system at Prime Focus in Soho, London. There Kevin Horsewood and I looked at getting a standard grade on the film. The Red R3Ds and CinemaDNG files from the 5Dmk3 were loaded straight into the Baselight and debayered from raw files as we graded. The .R3Ds were 6K and debayered using RedLogFilm.

Lenses used were Cooke S4s and Cooke S4minis on the PL mount cameras. Canon 40mm Pancake and Lomography/Zenit Petzval 85mm lenses were EF mounted lenses for use on the 5D.


Due to the differing sensor sizes the lenses weren't perfect matches in field of view."

++++

One thing amazing in that is he is using a $140 Canon 40 mm pancake lens in comparison to other lenses that cost $8,000 to $20,000. :)

Further down, he has this comment on shooting with the 5DII, and on film versus digital:



Comment to Dale:

"the MK3, it's still a pretty rad camera with ML raw. Really nice test BTW- thanks :) Could inter-cut for sure I reckon, in the right circumstances.



Reply by Dale McCready:

"Exactly. I've used the MK3 with Raw cut in with Alexa on BBC's In The Flesh for some action sequences and insert/macro photography and it looked great.

Same deal here. For me it was about not being able to pick up the 35mm cameras and really throw them around. So could I use the 5D instead (which I already own) to get some more kinetic shots I couldn't otherwise? In the end I've been using it more on the gimbal and cable cam as a remote head camera, but did shoot some shots on a long pole for some fights too.

I was trying to sneakily show the producer where the state of the art is with the Dragon too, as though I love shooting 35mm, the bulk and weight of the cameras (and cost of stock) really makes me want to push in the digital direction now. I can get more for the money on screen and that's the bottom line for me as the DP. I'm not overly romantic either. Give me a camera that makes good pictures in the right situation and I'm happy."



+++

I'm not implying that you should go in one direction or another. Nowadays, I am only doing low level work. I am mostly "retired"/unable to work due to chronic pain.

For me it was amazing to see what could be done with the 5DIII and Raw. At my level, it reassured me that I didn't need better tools to do the small things that I do. Obviously, YMMV.

Cheers! Good luck.

Michael
 
I'm shooting a feature in a couple of weeks on 16mm and my budget isnt anywhere near $1 mill. Of course, it is a dramatic script with few locations and a very understanding cast that is taking this very seriously and giving much
prep in rehearsal. I wouldn't even want to shoot my feature on anything other than film. But then again, I am going to screen it in a theater with my cast, crew, and local natives. Therefore, I wouldn't want anything that looks nasty and bad.
Most stuff shot around here is t3/4/5i stuff or 5d stuff. Ugh.
 
Matthew W Phillips said:
I'm shooting a feature in a couple of weeks on 16mm and my budget isnt anywhere near $1 mill. Of course, it is a dramatic script with few locations and a very understanding cast that is taking this very seriously and giving much
prep in rehearsal. I wouldn't even want to shoot my feature on anything other than film. But then again, I am going to screen it in a theater with my cast, crew, and local natives. Therefore, I wouldn't want anything that looks nasty and bad.
Most stuff shot around here is t3/4/5i stuff or 5d stuff. Ugh.
Click to expand...

Let me know about the feature. Would like to keep track of it. By the way Matthew do you have a website or social media site?
 
niki said:
also Black Swan was shot on super 16mm….
I've been working with film and it really is a stunning medium..in advertising I can budget film instead of an arri alexa rental and actually save money…(the main thing going into production is shooting ratio, something to discuss with your director )

here is a few ways to save money..
a. buy the camera..super 16mm or something like a 35mm moviecam..these cameras are super cheap now..
b. you can find short ends if your shooting on 35mm and kodak takes off around 30% for someone with a student i.d.
c. you don't really need post with film it's really good right out of the can…(just the one lite)
d. it's a discipline shooting with film... carefully plan your shooting schedule
Click to expand...

Hey Niki,

I didn't want to include Black Swan on the list because it had a budget of $13 million but I feel Matthew Libatique pushed the limits of what could be achieved with Super 16mm and the result was a visual masterpiece. Beast of the Southern Wild was another visual masterpiece shot in super 16mm.

Excellent suggestions! I've seen some amazing super 16mm cameras in the 10k to 15k range. You never have to upgrade and you have a palette of film stock to explore. It's intelligent line producing to get the best deals for development and transfers.

Would like to talk in more detail, Niki. Feel free to contact me mistersifuentes@gmail.com
 
I'm sure you can find it... I think its an Aussie company... but doing something they did years ago... shooting 2 perf on 35mm to almost double the shooting time... since most people are doing DI's now anyway... its been a while since I've done a budget based on shooting film... figure there'd be a better chance of getting short ends of longer ends in 35 over 16...
 
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