Procedure for setting up SD302/DVX100 combination

Petrus

Well-known member
Setting up DVX100 with Sound Devices 302 field mixer using full level signal.

(or how to match the clipping levels and find life easy ever after)

First some basic technical facts.

Pro audio gear use standardized line level voltages. This makes it easy to connect different units together, ideally they are perfectly mathced "out ot the box" so to speak. To check the match there is a 1 kHz test tone set at 0 dBVU reference level. The reason for the procedure described below is the fact that DVX100 is not a pro device and to make a perfect match with the Sound Devices 302 mixer the avarage utput level from the mixer needs to be lowered a bit. This is done once using the setup menu of the SD302. Later on when recording all level settings are done with the Gain and Fader knobs of the SD302 in the normal manner.

The audio scales used by the DVX100 and SD302 are different for historical reasons. DVX100 is a digital device, where 0 dB (zero desiBel) level means the absolute maximum sound level. Trying to record signals louder than 0 dB results in bad distortion as all the 16 sampling digits are used up at that point and trying to push it causes the waveform turn into a square wave. The last, fifth red marker on the DVX100’s audio meter is the 0 dBFS (desiBel Full Scale) level. Just touching it means all digits are used up and bad distortion is imminent, especially if the last red stays lighted for any amount of time. There are no +dB values in digital domain and can not be. The last white and red segments on DVX100 are at 2 dB increments, last white is -12 dBFS.

SD302 is an analog device and for historical reasons they use dBVU (desiBel Volume Unit) scales. On the SD302 the 0 dBVU level is a theoretical optimum saturation level for analog tape recorders. With those recorders it was (is) possible to overdrive the recorder without ill effects, the only thing that would happen would be some automatic limiting (dynamic range compression) and slight distortion. For that reason the optimum scale from 0 to +12 dBVU is marked orange and only the last 8 dB to +20 or clipping level, red.

What we need to do is to match the SD302 output to DVX100 input. The signal level out from SD302 must be optimized to line level in for DVX100, not to be too quiet (DVX100 preamp must amplify it too much causing noise), not too loud (this could cause clipping in DVX100 preamp). The aim is to set the audio dials on DVX100 to 12 o’clock position and leave them there. This is done with the full scale signal from SD302 by adjusting the signal out –level to match DVX100 inputs. The factory standard setting is too “hot”, meaning that it is possible to overdrive the DVX100 preamplifier even when the SD302-DVX100 combination is otherwise used correctly. We need to lower the output level to match DVX100 inputs.


- set DVX100 input switches to line (from front of camera), phantoms off, channel 1 to 1, 2 to 2 (under LCD)
- turn ALC off (DVX100 menu)
- turn audio dials pointing straight up, 12 o’clock position
- attach SD302 to DVX100, both channels driven
- enter the SD302 menu by tuning it on while pressing "PK/VU" button
- menu position 30 is entered, turn on the test signal with the switch MIC/1K (disconnect headphones first if any, loud signal!)
- the audio level bars on the DVX100 should light up all the way to last red, now lower the signal strength with the SD302 "Meter Brightness" button. The LED on the left channel row goes down, make it go down until the last red on the DVX100 turns off. This happens at -8 or -10 dBVU. If for some reason the level on SD302 was too low to begin with, turn it up with the "BATT" button.
- adjust the DVX100 audio dials just slightly so that the last red (almost) lights.

That’s it. Press "PK/VU" button enough times to exit menu and restart SD302. You will notice an orange LED glowing on the output side signifying that the output level is non-standard.

Now turn on the test tone again in the normal power-on mode. This gives a standard 0 dBVU level which is 20 dB lower than the full scale signal. You will find that this 0 dBVU signal strength sent to DVX100 shows the seventh white, five segments before first red. This is the -20 dBFS point on DVX100.

Next we set the output limiter on the SD302. I have it at +17 dBVU which gives a whooping 20*3=60 dB headroom for unexpected loud signals (the limiter has 20:1 ratio). That is plenty enough for every occasion and the limiter does not kick in too early to mess with good signals.

This is done by entering the menu mode again, see above, then pressing PK/VU once. Left channel -26 LED blinks. With "Meter Brightness" button and "BATT" button adjust the limiter threshold so that right channel +16 LED lights and +20 LED blinks. Now limiter threshold is at +17 dBVU. Exit menu by pressing "PK/VU"enough times.

Testing: attach your choice of microphone to SD302 and adjust levels on the SD302 with Gain and Fader knobs so that normal dialog lights up the orange LEDs on the SD302 (you must not touch the audio dials on the DVX100 anymore!). You will notice that when speaking louder you hit the first reds on the SD302 and DVX100 about the same time. Limiter lights start to light up on SD302 when there are 3-4 reds on the DVX100 scales. If you try to yell to the mic it is next to impossible to get the last red on DVX100 to light up*. We have arrived! All level setting is now done with SD302 and as long as you do not set the levels too high on SD302 there is no way the sound could get screwed on the DVX100, that is: as long as the average levels are around the orange range and loudest bits at first few reds on the SD302.
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*) this also means that in controlled situations slightly higher level from the SD302 could be used safely.

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This post was modified and expanded Feb 26:th 07 after reading the comments below. For that reason some of those corrections are outdated. Thanks all, all suggestions to make this as easy and exact as possible are welcome!
 
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Wonderful, thanks for the outline. I'm going to print and keep a copy of overview with my SD302 user manual for use with other devices as well.
 
Excellent post Petrus.

I'm sure you already know this, but for the other guys who might not, -10db down is considered "tape level" and that's a standard output setting when matching a pro-mixer to most prosumer recording devices... -10db down output on the 302 also matches "tape" on a 442... and the "tape out" on a mixpre. So if you're matching levels between the 302 via attenuation and you can't decide between -8db and -10db... I'd go with -10 and set up everything around that. (my .01)
 
reference tone 0 dbu = -12dbfs or -20dbfs

what is decibel ds or dbvu, i understand what you are trying to say, but this is the correct terminology.
 
Okay, I set up my mixer this way, but I need to get 1-2 red leds and have the (302) channel gain cranked all the way up with the fader at unity to get my normal levels on my HVX200. Is this normal?

I like not being able to clip it.

Thanks for the detailed directions. They go right along with the 302 manual (now that I know what to set where).
 
thats a great way to run a setup, my only concern with it is that with cheaper mics that arent as hot and pristine in terms of noise, you sometimes need to up your gain on the sd so far to get those signals that its a tad scary.
 
Nice post Petrus but a minor correction: it's dBFS (full scale) in the digital realm. Similar to a recent thread, maybe we should stickie this so it doesn't have to be repeated all the time.

Cheers
 
BTW, the SD manual is very well written but they should pay you for explaining this even better. Thanks!
 
Gregg said:
Is the "light intesity button" the fader?

No, you use the "Meter Brightness" button to lower the settings in the setup menu, and "Battery Check Button" to up the settings.
 
timapter said:
thats a great way to run a setup, my only concern with it is that with cheaper mics that arent as hot and pristine in terms of noise, you sometimes need to up your gain on the sd so far to get those signals that its a tad scary.

This might be true, but one of the reasons to use something like SD302 is to get to use better/less noisy mic preamps. That's what you are doing by cranking up the gain and/or fader knobs in the SD302 instead of cranking the same in DVX100. Yes?
 
Just tested the new Canon XH-A1 with SD302. It seems to me that this Canon accepts only standard line level in (no attenuation needed like with DVX100) and even then the audio potentiometers are almost at down position (fully open). No matter how hard I yelled at the mic I could not make it clip (good limiters on SD302) and no way I could get higher than -4 dBFS levels on the tape as checked from the captured audio with PPro. (clipping level matcing done like with DVX100). So this combination seems to work as a dream also.

Does anybody have any idea how the audio meters are marked in XH-A1? Yellow seems to start somewhere -12 dBFS as I could not get more than half of them lit with -4 dBFS peak levels. For some reason they want to keep details like this secret in the manual.
 
i know that the canon hd xl hasc very low sencitivity in line level , something very stange and complitly not standard , so maybe this is the same with that one .
no way that the pots would be fully open to get normal level
 
i'm talking like 75% on both pots with softish talkers - and those are the ones that matter to me! :)

petrus I agree with you, but even for the difference in 1 o'clock on the dvx dial i feel like I get a more workable gain structure without sacrificing anything. the 302 might be silent at full gain, the oktava isnt. its only my opinion, i KNOW your setup is correct in evey technical way - maybe im just weird. no complaints yet. :)
 
I have done a few shoots with SD302 now and I am happy. It is an extra thing in the chain, but makes things easier to visualize, and properly set up makes things almost foolproof. Just need some custom cables (ordered some from B&H and going to solder some myself).

Staring to get things at full speed at work now, at the new AV department that is, and permission to get new gear. Things I have bought in the last few months:

set of Arri 650 plus fresnels, just placed an order for 2 Chimeras & extras and 2 Kinoflo Divas & extras, Canon XH-A1 arrived last week, Sanken CS-3e arrived today, SD302 some weeks ago, have DVrackHD, Fostex FR-2, matched set of Octavas, Sennheiser G2, Sanken COS-11s, boxloads of redheads & a lone blondie.

What I do not have are any excuses left not making great videos!

Thank you all for the great pointers!
 
shot.. nice rig. please let me know how you find mixing the oktava's with the sanken - i'm curious if I buy a sanken will I never touch my oktava's again, even inside? ha ha! Scary.

Tim

EDIT - not MIXING the mics of course, but having both options in a kit.
 
Ok I set my 320 up exaclty as the poster instructed but I have to have the 302 meters go all the way to the limiters just to get 1 or 2 red bars on the DVX when I set the mixer so no clipping happens.

Shouldn't I be getting 3 or 4 red bars on my DVX?

I also set my limiters to +17. Is this higher or lower than factory settings? I can't find anything in the documentation.

[update]

I want back through and set everything up again and have to crank my DVX dials almost all the way just to get 3 red bars on the DVX before the mixer begins to clip.

Anyone else have this problem?
 
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Turn down the volume on the 302 and the dvx and disconnect any headphones before doing anything.

Set up the dvx (dials at 12 o'clock) with "full scale tone" as per the sd302 mixer manual and there will be no possible problems. Keep turning down the output of the 302 until the dvx drops below full red, then turn it back up on notch so that it is exactly clipping.

SD302 +20 = 0db on dvx
SD302 +8 = -12db on the dvx
SD302 0 = -20db on the dvx

You should have regular peaks at +8-+12 on the 302 and you should very occasionally "kiss" the limiters when something extra loud happens. There is no possible way to overdrive the dvx that way.


+17 limiters limit sooner than the factory setting, but that is exactly what you want since +20 will be equal to the clipping point if you set up with full scale tone (to 0db on the dvx).

Oh ya, turn off the ALC in the DVX.
 
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