Price of gear

Well, in all honesty, it looks pretty cheap in every sense of the word. If you want quality gear which will actually stand up to the rigors of filmmaking, not to mention support actual, pro filmmaking equipment, it costs, and no one's being gouged. If you just want a hunk of plastic to stick your DSLR on, I'm sure that thing is fine. But I think you may want to adjust your expectations as to how much it costs to make films.
 
I don't disagree with you, David; however, it sure seems like common sense dictates that, knowing what $230 can buy today, that it should also be able to purchase a slider that functions well and will last.

I don't know what the average markup is in the industry. It sure would be interesting to know. Perhaps it really is comparable to most other markets. But I think a lot of people suspect otherwise.
 
I think a lot of people may suspect otherwise largely because they've bought cameras which cost only a few hundred dollars and they expect most filmmaking gear to be priced commensurately. But it's the camera they bought which is the anomaly.

It's not like pro gear doesn't cost more than consumers or hobbyists want to pay in just about any area. Someone who makes clothes as a hobby with a $200 Singer sewing machine may also scoff at the equipment which would be used in a pro shop. Of course, filmmaking is about the most expensive thing there is. It's certainly the most expensive and most difficult art form.
 
Jordan_S said:
I don't disagree with you, David; however, it sure seems like common sense dictates that, knowing what $230 can buy today, that it should also be able to purchase a slider that functions well and will last.

I don't know what the average markup is in the industry. It sure would be interesting to know. Perhaps it really is comparable to most other markets. But I think a lot of people suspect otherwise.
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In just about every aspect of the economy you're looking at a mark up of 200-300% just due to taxes along. All companies pass along their estimated tax costs into the price of their products. So between the Manufacturer, Wholesaler and Retailer, you're looking at 200-300% mark-up for taxes, then another 100-150% for profit (at a minimum). So your average product is about 4 to 5 times the costs of manufacturing.
 
Andrew McCarrick said:
In just about every aspect of the economy you're looking at a mark up of 200-300% just due to taxes along. All companies pass along their estimated tax costs into the price of their products. So between the Manufacturer, Wholesaler and Retailer, you're looking at 200-300% mark-up for taxes, then another 100-150% for profit (at a minimum). So your average product is about 4 to 5 times the costs of manufacturing.
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What you are saying is simply untrue. I worked in climbing gear manufacturing facility for several years and was involved with design and sales. Generally in manufacturing if you are making 10-15% profit margin you are doing really well. Selling stock 15mm rods which costs about $1/foot with your logo for a few hundreds of $$$ I would consider simply price gauging.
 
David Jimerson said:
I think a lot of people may suspect otherwise largely because they've bought cameras which cost only a few hundred dollars and they expect most filmmaking gear to be priced commensurately. But it's the camera they bought which is the anomaly.

It's not like pro gear doesn't cost more than consumers or hobbyists want to pay in just about any area. Someone who makes clothes as a hobby with a $200 Singer sewing machine may also scoff at the equipment which would be used in a pro shop. Of course, filmmaking is about the most expensive thing there is. It's certainly the most expensive and most difficult art form.
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Oddly enough it's the same stock parts used my manufactures like Cinevette and such. They are not reinventing the wheel- however looks to me they are reinventing profit margins.
BTW of film sets when I worked as a grip thin wire and duct tape pretty much are the norm.
 
There is FAR more associated with doing business than "gouging" a customer. Sometimes you have to price certain components with a higher markup, to compensate a reduced profit margin on other items. Aside from that, things like customer service, warranty repair, time, employees, payroll tax, storage, shipping, office space, employee compensation, and a milliong other forms of over head, etc... Gouging? No. Its called making a living, and running a company.

Sure, let all the companies lower their prices and drive them selves out of business, then where would we be? No sliders, no matteboxes, no follow focuses, no rail systems, no filters, no lenses, no cameras.


Only fire and rocks.
 
Gear is expensive, you pay for quality, and customer service.

I get that, but why are people hating on the igus slider? It's widely become the go-to slider for the indie/DIY crowd. Also known as the ZAZA slider, which has been used to some acclaim by many a DVXuser.

The things rated for like 200lbs for industrial use (before it gets damaged), and you can get a smooth slide with something like 20lbs sitting on it.
 
its not the product, its the attitude of "everything should cost nothing".....

that mentality trickles down to the pay we recieve as artists, technicians, and creative businessmen.
 
David Jimerson said:
Well, in all honesty, it looks pretty cheap in every sense of the word. If you want quality gear which will actually stand up to the rigors of filmmaking, not to mention support actual, pro filmmaking equipment, it costs, and no one's being gouged..
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In Fact that exact "cheap looking in every sense of the word" Igus rail is used by more than 80% of all the companies that sell sliders.

Frank
 
I was more referring to the mount. But it wasn't really the point I was trying to make, so no unfairness to the Igus (or the Zazaslider) intended. Timur has it right.
 
Postmaster said:
In Fact that exact "cheap looking in every sense of the word" Igus rail is used by more than 80% of all the companies that sell sliders.

Frank
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I was not dissing Igus and sorry if I did not make my statement clearer. My point is that vast majority of companies selling "quality" buy the parts from the same supplier, slap their logo onto them and sell them for insane profit margins, while hiding behind words like "customer service" or "quality". I am ordering slider parts next week and I will time my assembly, so I can see how quickly I can put this rig together. I am sure it will be no more then a couple of hours plus maybe a trip or two to a local hardware store to get some fasteners. Also I am sure it will work the same as pretty much everything else out there.
 
^^ It's a good point.

However, the converse could be said as well: In order to justify high rates, business owners routinely purchase equipment in the top tier (price-wise, though not necessarily without peer in the mid-level or even low-level cost range), without doing their homework.

A prime example: batteries. Canon's are several hundred percent more expensive than knockoffs. Other examples include chargers, lens hoods, bags and cases, computers, hard drives, and blank media.

If fewer people in the industry were drinking the "film-making must be expensive" Kool-Aid, perhaps we could see more affordable prices. And it doesn't necessitate a drop in our rates.

There will always be folks willing to undervalue the work. They also invariably deliver poor results. This occurs in every industry. And some customers want (or can only afford) that.
 
"Affordable" to whom, though? The implication is that pretty much any individual who wants to should be able to buy quality filmmaking gear for a low cost. Well, who ever made that promise?

Filmmaking isn't a solo sport. It's not unfair that few single people can afford to equip themselves with the accouterments of a full production house. It's not even unfair that many individual items are out of reach to an individual, at least as brand new items. That's not the market for filmmaking gear, because that's not who makes films which require that kind of gear. Not with any regularity, anyway.

Even people/companies who start out trying to market specifically to the lowest-end, one-man-band market start out on the cheap, but as they increase the quality of their product, so, too, does the price go up. I've watched it happen numerous times over the past several years alone.

Are there brand premiums? Sure. Three quarters of this board swear by Apple and don't seem to mind the brand premium involved with buying their products. That's just the way it is.

But hey, if it's all about "gouging," then there's a pretty good opportunity to fill in the market gap, right? Give it a shot and see if things are really the way some seem to think they are. If it is, then pots of gold await.
 
djbobbyrhodes said:
Also known as the ZAZA slider, which has been used to some acclaim by many a DVXuser.
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I love mine. Just got back from a shoot with it.
If you have a problem...if no one else can help...and if you can find him...maybe you can hire Joe Zaza to build you one.
(He's no "gouger", IMO) :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG):Drogar-BigGrin(DBG):Drogar-BigGrin(DBG):lipsrseal
 
peterarcson said:
I was not dissing Igus and sorry if I did not make my statement clearer. My point is that vast majority of companies selling "quality" buy the parts from the same supplier, slap their logo onto them and sell them for insane profit margins, while hiding behind words like "customer service" or "quality". I am ordering slider parts next week and I will time my assembly, so I can see how quickly I can put this rig together. I am sure it will be no more then a couple of hours plus maybe a trip or two to a local hardware store to get some fasteners. Also I am sure it will work the same as pretty much everything else out there.
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By all means, please go into business! ( I am Completely serious!) If you can make a product that I need with the same quality, and support I expect for a cheaper price I will be the first one in line to buy. Without question. Look at wayne kinney of shoot35.com, Hien Le of Letus 35, Dennis wood of CineVate, Brian valente of redrock micro systems..... they all provide good quality (some excellent) products that do what they are supposed to do for a fraction of what ARRI, Oconnor, and Chroziel provide.
 
TimurCivan said:
There is FAR more associated with doing business than "gouging" a customer. Sometimes you have to price certain components with a higher markup, to compensate a reduced profit margin on other items. Aside from that, things like customer service, warranty repair, time, employees, payroll tax, storage, shipping, office space, employee compensation, and a milliong other forms of over head, etc... Gouging? No. Its called making a living, and running a company.

Sure, let all the companies lower their prices and drive them selves out of business, then where would we be? No sliders, no matteboxes, no follow focuses, no rail systems, no filters, no lenses, no cameras.


Only fire and rocks.
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+1 on this and your comment about the trickle down pay to artists.
 
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