Michael_Lieberman
Active member
This election is important, guys. Please be honest.
Presidental Election 2004
- Thread starter Michael_Lieberman
- Start date
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Re: Presidental Election 2004
I admit I am just not sure at this point. I thought I was a couple of months ago but now, I really dont know. Im not thrilled with any of the candidates and would have voted for EDWARDS had he won his parties nomination but KERRY isnt exactly thrilling me.
I will not be voting for BUSH that much is sure and a vote for NADER seems like a wasted vote; which is the problem with this whole DEMOCRAT/REPUBLICAN party issue.
I'm leaning heavily towards KERRY for the EDWARDS part of it.
AND ON A SIDE NOTE; IF YOU CANT DISCUSS THESE ISSUES AS ADULTS AND THIS TURNS INTO A FLAME WAR OR JUST PLAIN SENSELESS NONSENSE THEN IT WILL BE LOCKED AND CLOSED!
I admit I am just not sure at this point. I thought I was a couple of months ago but now, I really dont know. Im not thrilled with any of the candidates and would have voted for EDWARDS had he won his parties nomination but KERRY isnt exactly thrilling me.
I will not be voting for BUSH that much is sure and a vote for NADER seems like a wasted vote; which is the problem with this whole DEMOCRAT/REPUBLICAN party issue.
I'm leaning heavily towards KERRY for the EDWARDS part of it.
AND ON A SIDE NOTE; IF YOU CANT DISCUSS THESE ISSUES AS ADULTS AND THIS TURNS INTO A FLAME WAR OR JUST PLAIN SENSELESS NONSENSE THEN IT WILL BE LOCKED AND CLOSED!
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Presidental Election 2004
If I were a bookie, I'd start taking bets on how quickly this thread would get locked. I'd start the bidding at 12 hours.
I wouldn't dream of offering a position on either of those candidates, as it will only lead to trouble. However, I totally agree with you that the democrat/republican thing is a system that's not really helping anything. If you're a fiscal conservative who happens to enjoy breathing and think protecting the environment is a good thing -- where do you fit in? If you're a social liberal who is a small business owner, rather than a union laborer -- do you fit in? Sure seems we'd better represent our population with a few more party choices out there. I don't believe the average American fits neatly into either party on all issues.
The thing about Nader is, regardless of what you think of him or his positions, he's become a political football between the big boys -- Republicans are actively campaigning to get his name on the ballot, and Democrats are suing to get him tossed off the ballot. Democrats complain that a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush.
I say that voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still a vote for evil. Until people start voting FOR who they want, instead of AGAINST someone who's worse, they'll continue to be in this mess. The one sure way to "throw your vote away" is to vote for someone you don't want.
Sounds like you might want to investigate some of the smaller parties (Libertarian, Constitution, Green, whatever) and see if they match your philosophy better. If they do, VOTE for their candidates. Every vote they get makes their party stronger, and brings them a little closer to being a player on the national stage. If you're a Republican, and you firmly believe in Republican stances on issues, and firmly believe that the Republican nominee is the best choice for President, then vote for him. If you instead find that the Constitution party is much more to your liking, you firmly believe in all their positions, etc., then don't vote for the Republicans because they're more like the Constitution party than the Democrats are... go ahead and vote for the Constitution party! Same with the Greens and the Democrats, etc... if you really believe in what the Green party stands for, don't vote for the Democrats because they're more Green-like than the Republicans are... go ahead and vote for the Green candiate. Or the Libertarian. Or the Reform party. Or whoever matches your views.
The only way your voice will be heard is if you speak up.
If I were a bookie, I'd start taking bets on how quickly this thread would get locked. I'd start the bidding at 12 hours.
I wouldn't dream of offering a position on either of those candidates, as it will only lead to trouble. However, I totally agree with you that the democrat/republican thing is a system that's not really helping anything. If you're a fiscal conservative who happens to enjoy breathing and think protecting the environment is a good thing -- where do you fit in? If you're a social liberal who is a small business owner, rather than a union laborer -- do you fit in? Sure seems we'd better represent our population with a few more party choices out there. I don't believe the average American fits neatly into either party on all issues.
The thing about Nader is, regardless of what you think of him or his positions, he's become a political football between the big boys -- Republicans are actively campaigning to get his name on the ballot, and Democrats are suing to get him tossed off the ballot. Democrats complain that a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush.
I say that voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still a vote for evil. Until people start voting FOR who they want, instead of AGAINST someone who's worse, they'll continue to be in this mess. The one sure way to "throw your vote away" is to vote for someone you don't want.
Sounds like you might want to investigate some of the smaller parties (Libertarian, Constitution, Green, whatever) and see if they match your philosophy better. If they do, VOTE for their candidates. Every vote they get makes their party stronger, and brings them a little closer to being a player on the national stage. If you're a Republican, and you firmly believe in Republican stances on issues, and firmly believe that the Republican nominee is the best choice for President, then vote for him. If you instead find that the Constitution party is much more to your liking, you firmly believe in all their positions, etc., then don't vote for the Republicans because they're more like the Constitution party than the Democrats are... go ahead and vote for the Constitution party! Same with the Greens and the Democrats, etc... if you really believe in what the Green party stands for, don't vote for the Democrats because they're more Green-like than the Republicans are... go ahead and vote for the Green candiate. Or the Libertarian. Or the Reform party. Or whoever matches your views.
The only way your voice will be heard is if you speak up.
Re: Presidental Election 2004
I almost always vote for the Libertarian candidate.
Unfortunately, as a matter of history, the only way a new major political party gets to really play on a serious level is when an old one collapses and its membership re-forms into the new party.
Hence, the only way that, say, the Greens could become a viable force capable of winning elections is if the more leftist chunk of the Democrats broke away and turned en masse to the Greens. (Just an example.)
Not that I think you're wrong in the principle of what you say, Barry, but it's just never worked like that here as a practical matter.
I almost always vote for the Libertarian candidate.
Unfortunately, as a matter of history, the only way a new major political party gets to really play on a serious level is when an old one collapses and its membership re-forms into the new party.
Hence, the only way that, say, the Greens could become a viable force capable of winning elections is if the more leftist chunk of the Democrats broke away and turned en masse to the Greens. (Just an example.)
Not that I think you're wrong in the principle of what you say, Barry, but it's just never worked like that here as a practical matter.
Fred_Plowman
Well-known member
Re: Presidental Election 2004
Dont you educated folks know it dont matter..lol
They decide who youll vote for. ;D
Dont you educated folks know it dont matter..lol
They decide who youll vote for. ;D
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Re: Presidental Election 2004
Barry
That was a very solid take and a well thought out post. I completely agree with everything you said.
Me? I lean to the LEFT (Don't most artists generally speaking?) but am a BUSINESS OWNER which seems generally is best to lean to the RIGHT. You nailed it; I dont think the majority of people fit into either party.
The system is screwed up and other parties need to access to the arena. And voting for the lesser of two is still voting for someone you really dont want to vote for.
Sigh......
I am not afraid to say that BUSH needs to go. I have said in the past on this board; he just doesnt strike as someone I would follow or want to lead me. This IRAQ issue is driving me mad. What are we doing there? At first I supported it but now Im like "Whats the gameplan guys?" Our boys arent worth this. Another subject I know.
I too give this about 12 hours before people start acting liek children so I wont take this bet up.
America, America.
Barry
That was a very solid take and a well thought out post. I completely agree with everything you said.
Me? I lean to the LEFT (Don't most artists generally speaking?) but am a BUSINESS OWNER which seems generally is best to lean to the RIGHT. You nailed it; I dont think the majority of people fit into either party.
The system is screwed up and other parties need to access to the arena. And voting for the lesser of two is still voting for someone you really dont want to vote for.
Sigh......
I am not afraid to say that BUSH needs to go. I have said in the past on this board; he just doesnt strike as someone I would follow or want to lead me. This IRAQ issue is driving me mad. What are we doing there? At first I supported it but now Im like "Whats the gameplan guys?" Our boys arent worth this. Another subject I know.
I too give this about 12 hours before people start acting liek children so I wont take this bet up.
America, America.
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Re: Presidental Election 2004
You see that everyone? TylerGred and I are on opposite sides and are completely cool with that. Amazing how adults can act when they try.
(Thats my way of reminding everyone to chill)
You see that everyone? TylerGred and I are on opposite sides and are completely cool with that. Amazing how adults can act when they try.
(Thats my way of reminding everyone to chill)
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Re: Presidental Election 2004
LOL
I fixed it!
LOL
I fixed it!
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Re: Presidental Election 2004
I read an article recently that showed the POLLS. The point being that some POLLS showed BUSH and others showed KERRY. It depended on where the POLLS were conducted blah blah
I think its going to be a NAILBITER for sure. Whomever wins, can we get our boys out of the desert?
What is sad is the MUDSLINGING by both parties. Disgraceful behaivor.
I read an article recently that showed the POLLS. The point being that some POLLS showed BUSH and others showed KERRY. It depended on where the POLLS were conducted blah blah
I think its going to be a NAILBITER for sure. Whomever wins, can we get our boys out of the desert?
What is sad is the MUDSLINGING by both parties. Disgraceful behaivor.
Re: Presidental Election 2004
I still think Kerry can win if he just drops the whole Vietnam issue and just go for Bush's weaker points on his domestic issues. I don't care what anyone says Kerry can not take Bush on the war of terror so he needs to drop that too. He can take him if he just sticks with his weaker points...
I still think Kerry can win if he just drops the whole Vietnam issue and just go for Bush's weaker points on his domestic issues. I don't care what anyone says Kerry can not take Bush on the war of terror so he needs to drop that too. He can take him if he just sticks with his weaker points...
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Re: Presidental Election 2004
I'm digging that take.
Perhaps people are afraid of KERRY's outspokeness (Is that a word?) on VIETNAM in the 70's and maybe they think he has grown weak? I think they should drop the VIETNAM issue alltogether even though BUSH punked out back in the day (Pays to have Daddy in high places I guess).
One thing is for sure, the world isnt digging the U.S. as of late. :-/
I'm digging that take.
Perhaps people are afraid of KERRY's outspokeness (Is that a word?) on VIETNAM in the 70's and maybe they think he has grown weak? I think they should drop the VIETNAM issue alltogether even though BUSH punked out back in the day (Pays to have Daddy in high places I guess).
One thing is for sure, the world isnt digging the U.S. as of late. :-/
Re: Presidental Election 2004
Im glad you guys are pretty well informed. I just had this same coverstion 2 nights ago in a bar. And it seemed almost all the 21 year olds had the same stance "Bush is dumb..... so dont vote for him". Well the truth of the matter is he is not dumb. He is probably very smart. he just, self admittedly, has difficulty speaking publicly. I personally do not agree with his politics, buti think calling a person who is the president of the US Dumb, or stupid is not helping someone with different political ideas to get thoes ideas enacted. There is no way a stupid person would be able to rise the position of president. His grades might not have been the best, but i know many people who are far smarter than me who get terrible grades.
The bar conversation was quite interesting however, because there were a couple fervent Republicans, as well as fervent democrats in my circle of school friends. I somehow felt alot of them were just repeating television ads and what ever they heard on AOL news..... The uber liberals were trying to blame bush for September 11th, for the economy, for the war.... That is complete nonsense. You cannot blame a man, or an organization for the action of radical terrorists. Based upon the amount of intelligence recieved by the CIA and FBI, its almost impossible to have predicted an attack. Only after the fact, when going back though the information with a fine tooth comb, did the CIA find documents referring to Planes and what not. The economy runs in 10 year cycles, look back over our history, its like a clock, every 10 years, it gets good then bad. were into year 6 of bad. (stock market decline in the late 90's). As for the war...... Yea i kinda feel thats his fault.. lol JK.
I noticed that the people my age have this really far left or far right stance. I cannot figure out if its just a lack of life experince, in that maybe we havent grown up enough to know that a bad politician isnt the purest of evil. Or that a president who likes a fight is "cool" or whatever. Maybe us kids are trying to do the cool thing be like everyone else you grew up with, but some how i think these habits will continue on into adult hood. therefore perpetuating the two party dominance. I wish there was a party consisted of the Median 50%. the people who just want leaders who will guide the country without a specific liberal or Conservative agenda. just s party who tackles each situation with a middle of the road kind of attitude. that way the extremists, wont be too pissed, an the median are happy.
But it looks like were polarized into a 2 party system. so we have to get used to it. I persoanlly vote for who ever i feel will do the job the best. I like kerry personally, but i have a feeling Bush will win. Even if he does, the world will not end. We will just have 4 more years of his adminitration. :-/ i mean it could be worse, at least were not starving.....
Im glad you guys are pretty well informed. I just had this same coverstion 2 nights ago in a bar. And it seemed almost all the 21 year olds had the same stance "Bush is dumb..... so dont vote for him". Well the truth of the matter is he is not dumb. He is probably very smart. he just, self admittedly, has difficulty speaking publicly. I personally do not agree with his politics, buti think calling a person who is the president of the US Dumb, or stupid is not helping someone with different political ideas to get thoes ideas enacted. There is no way a stupid person would be able to rise the position of president. His grades might not have been the best, but i know many people who are far smarter than me who get terrible grades.
The bar conversation was quite interesting however, because there were a couple fervent Republicans, as well as fervent democrats in my circle of school friends. I somehow felt alot of them were just repeating television ads and what ever they heard on AOL news..... The uber liberals were trying to blame bush for September 11th, for the economy, for the war.... That is complete nonsense. You cannot blame a man, or an organization for the action of radical terrorists. Based upon the amount of intelligence recieved by the CIA and FBI, its almost impossible to have predicted an attack. Only after the fact, when going back though the information with a fine tooth comb, did the CIA find documents referring to Planes and what not. The economy runs in 10 year cycles, look back over our history, its like a clock, every 10 years, it gets good then bad. were into year 6 of bad. (stock market decline in the late 90's). As for the war...... Yea i kinda feel thats his fault.. lol JK.
I noticed that the people my age have this really far left or far right stance. I cannot figure out if its just a lack of life experince, in that maybe we havent grown up enough to know that a bad politician isnt the purest of evil. Or that a president who likes a fight is "cool" or whatever. Maybe us kids are trying to do the cool thing be like everyone else you grew up with, but some how i think these habits will continue on into adult hood. therefore perpetuating the two party dominance. I wish there was a party consisted of the Median 50%. the people who just want leaders who will guide the country without a specific liberal or Conservative agenda. just s party who tackles each situation with a middle of the road kind of attitude. that way the extremists, wont be too pissed, an the median are happy.
But it looks like were polarized into a 2 party system. so we have to get used to it. I persoanlly vote for who ever i feel will do the job the best. I like kerry personally, but i have a feeling Bush will win. Even if he does, the world will not end. We will just have 4 more years of his adminitration. :-/ i mean it could be worse, at least were not starving.....