Potential Client asking for a Quote

J

junes

Member
Hey folks,

I randomly met a potential client at a party. His company makes specialized equipment for a very specific industry. Some items are hand-held, some are the size of a big filing cabinet. He's in charge of having instructional videos made about the products. He usually ships the product to Miami from Pennsylvania to have this done, but he's looking to have it done closer to home base. I'm in NYC.

He showed me a sample of what they're looking for and the camerawork and directing seemed very simple and uninteresting. The lighting was flat and unflattering. It was simply shot in a studio with a white background. There was no audio recorded live, just one model operating the equipment with voice-over instructions and background music. Shot of the product, electronic displays, blinking lights, etc. They did some semi-fancy titling throughout that I could probably pick up (or outsource). They did some raking focus shots that may necessitate use of a RED, 35mm adapter, or even a 5dmkii (?). So, the shooting and directing seem well within my capabilities.

HOWEVER. He wants me to be responsible for ALL of the following:
- 25 minute video in HD
- Directing
- Producing
- Casting
- Editing
- Securing studio space
- Materials
- Crew
- Mastering on Digital Betacam
- Audio Mix Down
- Color Correction
- Background Music
- Graphic Design for Background
- Voiceover in 6 languages (English, Japanese, French, Italian, Spanish, German)
- 6 versions of the same video with titles in each language
- Titling throughout

He provides the script and texts in all languages.

I would normally feel very overwhelmed by this, but, like I said the camerawork seems so simple ( I could do an even BETTER job of it to keep this client for future work ). ALSO, it would be the perfect project for me to learn how all of this is put together. And this client is really cool and open to questions. I know a still photographer who's worked with him and he's apparently great.

Obviously, I'm looking to outsource a lot of this. How would you guys do it? Where would you start in figuring a quote? Hiring talent? Finding a foreign language voiceover producer? How big of a crew would this require? What would you really try to do yourself to get the most money out of it? How much would you mark up what you're outsourcing?

I'm comfortable with shooting and editing in Final Cut. Would you definitely bring someone else in to direct something so simple with no dialogue? Would you try to rent a RED to do the raking focus? Is the 5dmkii completely out of the question on a project with no live audio?

I really want to make this happen. I'm guessing I should quote a range depending on turn-around time required. Less time would require more people and outsourcing right?

I'd really appreciate some advice and encouragement :).
 
I've asked. He ignored that question and answered the others. I think he'll tip his hand a little if he thinks I've done sufficient research. I don't mind aiming high and paying myself to shoot and direct at the same time. It's easier to make cuts later than to raise my quote during post production.

I'm not worried that he'll get sticker shock and disappear after my first quote. He'll negotiate, because he generally wants to use me. I'm more worried about under-quoting and then running out of money or getting in over my head.

I assume that they're willing to pay for what they're asking. It's not a Hollywood budget, but they want a few bells and whistles.
 
Matt's spot-on. Ask him what he has budgeted (again). If he's thinking he's gonna get this done for five grand, he's dreaming. I wouldn't touch it for under $25k. But, who knows, he might say "keep it under $60k and we can make a deal". And if he says that, my quote would magically become $58,722.50.

Point being, you haven't done this before, you don't know all the ins and outs of this, and you had better charge enough that you can hire the right pros when/if you get in over your head.

Now, as for what it's actually gonna cost you:
studio space, budget $800/day for that.
Crew, assume 4, at $500/day each. Can it be shot in a day? That's $2,000.
Forget renting a Red, just slap an adapter on the front of your camera, unless one of your crew guys comes with his own Red and doesn't charge you much for it.
Casting: find a killer voiceover guy or gal, go to a talent agent and pay the price, the voice is everything and you can't cheap out here. You should be able to get someone good for $300/day, very good for $1000/day. Get the best you can.
Music, audio mastering, all that stuff -- you can find good folks here on DVXUser who can do all those jobs. Pay them reasonable wages. $500/day minimum. For a 25-minute DVD you can try to cheap out with SmartSound, or you can hire Herman Witkam or Justin Durban or any of our other prominent composers at a reasonable rate and get a quality custom soundtrack.
Graphic design: hire Jack Daniel Stanley or Disjecta or one of our other crazily talented members to do some background graphics for you. $300 to $500 should get you something pretty amazing, but let them quote you their own prices.

As for translations and titling, best to hire someone who knows those languages. You don't want to try to cheap out and get some high school french student to try to translate the french version, for example. You need pros. If this is industrial equipment, you'd better be extremely sure that your translations will be spot-on and 100% accurate.

On a $25k budget, spend $15k and keep $10k. If you can use your skills to negotiate better deals (find studio space for $100 for the three hours you need, for example) then your profit margin goes up. Or, more likely, your contingency budget gets padded, because sure as shootin', something unexpected is going to come up that you're going to have to pay for, so any savings you can apply early on will serve you well to hold on to.

Good luck.
 
Thank you Matt and Barry.

I'll get back in touch and try to wring some numbers out of him.

MY HD cameras are the HV20 and the 5Dmarkii. I have the DVX100b also. So I'm familiar with those cameras. I'm willing to use the 5Dmkii unless there's some big reason not to. The client doesn't care about 24p. I'll probably drop some cash on a couple of Nikon manual focus lenses and an adapter ring. Stop me if this is a terrible idea.

The client will provide the script and titles in all languages required. I'll need to be meticulous about matching it all up, though, and I'll have to find someone who can proof it.

4 crew members sounds reasonable. What would their jobs be specifically? Don't kill me for asking this. I've been using one assistant to shoot no-budget short pieces for promotion purposes. I'm happy to bring more people on for a paying gig.

What kind of background graphic will I be getting if I use Jack Daniel Stanley or Disjecta? Again, I've ONLY been shooting on location. Not in a studio. Will this be a physical background that will be made for my shoot?

If all goes well you'll be seeing MANY more questions from me about this job. Thank you.
 
I'd rent a proper video professional grade camera for the shoot. The RED is likely overkill though and has a nice learning curve if you don't have prior experience with it, which would require you to rent it for a longer period than needed for the production alone most likely.
 
OK Douglas. What would you recommend? The HVX with a 35mm adapter? Something else? The XH-A1 and PMW EX3-XD CAM EX are also readily available. The RED seems intimidating.

On second thought, I might not even need an adapter. All the raking focus shots that were used in the sample were done zoomed way in. There are lots of tight shots of hands working the equipment. The wide shots have a deep depth of field.

I know I sound completely clueless, and I apologize for that. When I saw what they were looking for I knew I could do the camera work. I'd give no thought to banging this out with a rental HVX on location and editing to provided voice over. Then they tell me that they want me to run the whole show from start to finish. And they want it shot in a studio. And they want it in 6 languages. And they want it mastered and delivered on Digi Betacam. So, I'm thinking, sweet, what better way to learn this process than to gather up a bunch of talented people and pay them to work on a video with me.

So, what are my obstacles going to be? I know lots about location lighting for still photography, but nothing about continuous lighting equipment. So, one of my crew should have a good grasp of that. But if the budget ends up being peanuts, I'll have to hang some chinese lanterns. Etc...

Hopefully this happens and I can post a few help wanted ads on this forum.
 
Either the XH-A1 or the EX3 would probably work great for the application you described, or an HVX200A. The XH-A1 has a great stock 20x lens for the close-ups.
 
Junes, before you go into this project I suggestion you starting asking yourself "what is it the client really wants". In other words is he looking at doing this with you just to save money ? I would try to focus on solving his problem first and then worry about gear.

Now it is obvious he doesn't want to ship his products to Miami but beyond that what is it you can offer that adds value to his products ? What is it you can do to help him sell more stuff ?

Put yourself in his shoes and ask yourself how can you make this a more effective sales and marketing tool. This is not about Red's, DSLRS or DOF, it is about business !!! You need to make a business case of why you are the one to partner with and why your expertise will be good for his business.

I know this is not what you want to hear but no one hires anyone or spends this kind of money because they like you. It is all about adding value to his company and products and yes money is an issue but you could do it for free but if it doesn't help his business it is wasted time and effort.

My final suggestion is forget what the current company is doing create your own vision of how you can do a better job of telling his story. Even though its about a product it still boils down to selling the company through corporate story telling.

Sorry to be so long winded and what might seem off topic but don't lose site of the goal. The client doesn't care what you shoot this on or with they care about telling their story.

Lee
 
He has a budget. He just sees you as a hungry producer and therefore this is a cheap way to get a mid-level product at a deep discount.

I'd beware.
 
Ok Lee. That's actually good to hear. This guy is used to doing things a certain way, BUT he's open to new ideas. He took a chance on a still photographer that I know, who made him a little nervous with her different vision, but he ended up being thrilled with the results.

ALSO, I feel like he's been approaching these instructional videos as something that he's required to do. Have you ever tried to read IKEA's assembly instruction manuals? I always swear I'm never going to shop there again after trying to understand them. You're absolutely right. I should get him excited about giving HIS clients a polished and professional video that will make them confident in buying from him again. That newish Delta pre-flight safety video is pretty awesome, right? I actually watch it every time because it's so well done.

I really don't think he's looking to cheap out though. I think he just has no loyalty to his current video studio. Probably because they do a mediocre job. He'll use them again, but if I wow him with a proposal that fits in his budget he'll take a chance on me. I also think he has fun on the photo shoots and there would be an opportunity for him to come into NYC for a day of video shooting.

SO... I'm going to start with figuring out what I want this product to look like. Inspire myself a bit and step away from getting bogged down with the non-creative aspects like audio mix-downs and mastering. I can capture video and I can have a studio do the voice over. Those are the raw materials. The rest is post production. Right?

My concern with gear is valid because he wants a price quote and I have NO idea what a doable range is. Thanks to Barry for giving me a $25,000 floor to start with. So, if it has to be done for less I can pass...
 
Listen, listen, listen and then ask lots of questions. I find most clients will tell you what they want but not directly because they don't know what they don't know.

As an example: He might say "I want a professional instructional video against a white background". Some people would think, sure i can do that and do exactly that. But if you ask a few questions such, "who is it that are using these videos?", "Have you had any feedback from your customers on what they like or dislike about the videos?", "You mentioned a white background, is this because you like that color, or maybe think its more professional, etc.?".

Hopefully you get my drift, the point is consider yourself a consultant not a videographer. Find out what and why he likes certain things. Also what doesn't he like ?

Get some help but you can do this if you approach this with the right mindset.

Good luck,

Lee
 
Update for anyone who is interested. Had a phone conversation with the client. He said flat out that he would not give a budget range. He said for me to pick the cheapest. No make-up artist, minimal background design. He actually said "Let's start from the bottom and go up from there." I laughed and said, "So, I can quote you a low price now and raise it later?"

I'm not sure that this will be worth my time in doing the research to put together an estimate. The voice-over person I talked to said that 25 minutes is a monster and will be costly, and there would have to be people who can edit in each language.

Does anyone know of a video studio in NYC that does this kind of work? Is it possible for me to cast and direct in someone else's studio? Maybe I can start a good relationship with a studio by bringing in work?
 
Quote a flat 50k. If he balks, cool. If not, like you said, it's a great opportunity to expand your networking and capabilities.
 
Junes while this is a hassle it is a good exercise for you to learn what your true cost would be on a job. Even if you don't get the job next time you will have a much better idea of how to provide your potential client with a more accurate quote.
 
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