Post processing Poly-wav files recorded on Zoom F4

J

Joshua_G

Well-known member
Now I'm burning-in and testing the Zoom F4.

I recorded a Poly-wav file containing 8 tracks (TR1-6 + L/R). Tried to make a mix, changing the volume of each one of the 8 tracks separately, for a mix-down stereo wav file.

Here is the file's behavior in the various DAW I have on my PC:

Audacity 2.2.0 (the freeware DAW which I love most, for its' simplicity):
Opens the file all right, displays the 8 tracks, each track separately - however, I didn't find there a mixer, in order to change the volume of each of the 8 tracks separately.
Am I missing an existing mixer there?

Cubase LE9 (download enabled via the documentation that came with the Zoom F4):
The same as with Audacity above (it opens the file all right, however (it shows something that looks like a single track and I didn't find there a mixer, in order to change the volume of each of the 8 tracks separately).
Am I missing an existing mixer there?

Pro Tools First (freeware):
Opens the file all right, shows each of the 8 files separately and has a mixer that allows changing the volume of each of the 8 tracks separately (plus much more …).
Alas:
1. There is no pause; clicking the 'Play' button (or space bar) and then the 'Stop' button (or space bar again), upon clicking 'stop' the cursor jumps right to the beginning of the file.
2. It's a very complicated software, with so many options that I don't need and will probably never use.
I guess I'll have to invest time in learning it…

Sound Forge Pro 11.0
The same as with Audacity above (it opens the file all right, however (it shows something that looks like a single track and I didn't find there a mixer, in order to change the volume of each of the 8 tracks separately).
Am I missing an existing mixer there?

WaveLab LE 9 (download enabled via the documentation that came with the Zoom F4):
Doesn't open the file, shows an error message that "this audio format is not recognized by WaveLab LE".

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thank you.
 
Maybe those DAWs don't handle single polyphonic files well?

What you could try would be to download the free (and useful!) Wave Agent app from Sound Devices. Available in Mac & Windows flavors. Use that to split your one polyphonic WAV file into eight monophonic WAV files. It's easy to do.

Info and download here:
https://www.sounddevices.com/products/accessories/software/wave-agent

And since DVXUSER is about video, here's a short video overview of Wave Agent:

 
FWIW, Sound Forge Pro 11 is an ..editor and/or mastering app, which supports multi-channel files (usually stereo, 5:1, 7:1, ect., and does not have a 'mixer' like DAWs. You could however add volume envelopes to the channels, but processing the channels individually is not it's design. OTOH, it's sister app, 'Magix' Vegas Pro video (formally SONY.. and originally Sonic Foundry) has a full fledged DAW built in and imports poly files.
 
Hi Jim,
Thank you.

Jim Feeley said:
Maybe those DAWs don't handle single polyphonic files well?
Click to expand...

Well, Pro Tools First handles single polyphonic files very well and it has mixer for each of the separate tracks in the file. Only, it's complicated to use, it will take me some learning of using it.

Jim Feeley said:
What you could try would be to download the free (and useful!) Wave Agent app from Sound Devices. Available in Mac & Windows flavors. Use that to split your one polyphonic WAV file into eight monophonic WAV files. It's easy to do.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I downloaded and tried it. For only mixing the volume of each track on the polyphonic file, or for saving separate files of the different tracks it's very useful.
However:
1. For any more manipulations on the sound, like fades and cross-fades, equalization and FX - it's not a substitute to a DAW.
2. Using Pro Tools First, there is no difference in the workflow and options between a single polyphonic file and multiple files.

--------------

Rick R said:
FWIW, Sound Forge Pro 11 is an ..editor and/or mastering app, which supports multi-channel files (usually stereo, 5:1, 7:1, ect., and does not have a 'mixer' like DAWs. You could however add volume envelopes to the channels, but processing the channels individually is not it's design. OTOH, it's sister app, 'Magix' Vegas Pro video (formally SONY.. and originally Sonic Foundry) has a full fledged DAW built in and imports poly files.
Click to expand...

Hi, Rick,
Thank you.
Being only a hobbyist, at this point I see no reason to invest money on Vegas Pro, when all my current needs are covered by freeware - video by DaVinci Resolve and audio by Pro Tools First.
 
I would guess Sound Forge behaves similarly to Vegas where for a stereo file you can select the file and create a copy on a track below it on the timeline. Right click one file, select channel left, on the other channel right, now you can edit them individually.
 
wjauch said:
I would guess Sound Forge behaves similarly to Vegas where for a stereo file you can select the file and create a copy on a track below it on the timeline. Right click one file, select channel left, on the other channel right, now you can edit them individually.
Click to expand...
Actually Sound Forge is quite different in that respect, and on top of that, a volume envelope is active on all the channels but there are other ways to adj channel volumes. It's a clunky interface for this type of work.
BTW, Vegas gives the option to import files as stereo pair tracks or multiple mono tracks. And as 'wjauch' stated, duplicating and/or selecting the clip's channel(s) only takes a few seconds. The volume and other automation envelopes can be applied on a track by track basis, plus all the automation envelopes (which includes the parameters of most plug-ins) can be put on the tracks, FX sends/returns submaster and master busses.
I've been using Vegas since version 1, (which had no video capabilities) and Sound Forge since version 3 and have been on the beta test team for quite a few years now.
 
Joshua_G said:
Thank you. I downloaded and tried it. For only mixing the volume of each track on the polyphonic file, or for saving separate files of the different tracks it's very useful.
However:
1. For any more manipulations on the sound, like fades and cross-fades, equalization and FX - it's not a substitute to a DAW.
2. Using Pro Tools First, there is no difference in the workflow and options between a single polyphonic file and multiple files.
Click to expand...


Wave Agent isn't and doesn't claim to be a DAW or a substitute for a DAW. It is a free utility that performs several useful functions, including splitting poly files into mono files. So then you could take those mono files into DAWs (and NLEs) that don't work well or at all with poly files. And that might be handy if you want to use an application other than Pro Tools.
 
I've made one more experiment with the poly-wav file.

Importing the poly-wav file into DaVinci Resolve, only the L & R tracks (which are the stereo mix in the recorder) show as one stereo file.

So, I split the poly-wav file into 8 different files with Sound Devices Wave Agent and imported them into DaVinci Resolve.
DaVinci Resolve 14 has Fairlight in it, which is quite capable DAW, though not full-featured one. There are volume mixer, equalizer, dynamic control and pan - which can be applied to each of the audio tracks separately.

So far so good, alas, for audio transitions I have to go back from the 'Fairlight' workspace to the 'Edit' workspace - where the only available transitions for audio are 3 dB or 0 dB crossfades. Not a full substitute to a real DAW like Pro Tolls First. So, back to square 1 …
 
Black magic bought the assets (and hopefully brought along some of the engineers) of Fairlight. But at this point, Resolve doesn't really integrate the full features of the old Fairlight systems. I'd guess it'll get better at a fast rate, but at the moment, it feels more like a "this is promising" concept than a "don't need Pro Tools anymore" thing.
 
BTW in ProTools you choose if the cursor follows playback or not. I always have it behave the way yours is behaving but there is an option to change that. I haven't used your version so not sure where that option is but on other versions it was a clickable icon in the tool bar and an option under the "options" menu, I think.

The other DAW to look at is REAPER. OR you could go to Davinci Resolve and have a NLE and DAW all in one.
 
Hi Scott,
Thank you.

In Pro Tools First (the freeware version) I found no option for cursor following playback.

Indeed, the Fairlight, which is included in DaVinci Resolve 14, is quite capable DAW, though, at this stage, with limited crossfades. It seems to suffice for basic audio post processing, but I may need more than that (or it may suffice for all my needs).

Reaper is certainly worth looking at and trying it.
 
Scott is correct. In Pro Tools you can choose where the cursor goes when you stop the playback. This is a nice feature because if I'm doing playback and want to start from where the cursor started each time I press stop, I can, but if I'm editing I don't want it to do that, so I can have it stay where it stops.

It sounds like you are just experiencing the differences in different DAWs. I use Pro Tools or Adobe Audition, depending on what I'm doing. If Pro Tools wasn't finicky when it came to just seeing my Focusrite USB interface I'd just use Pro Tools all the time (sometimes it sees it and sometimes it doesn't, and I don't have half a day for fiddle with it).

I like to use wave agent to break up BWF.P files if I need to. It's fast, easy, and free software.
 
Hi Scott,
Thanks. On Pro Tools First there is no "insert follows playback" button. That makes it barely usable for me.
 
Joshua_G said:
Hi Scott,
Thanks. On Pro Tools First there is no "insert follows playback" button. That makes it barely usable for me.
Click to expand...

I haven't used Pro Tools First for a long time, but I do remember that a lot of features were taken out of it. Not sure of this specific one is gone in the free version or not, but I remember a lot of quick keys didn't work for me that I was used to. I have the subscription of Pro Tools. You could get that, but you need an iLok. It's not an expensive investment, and it'll work for what you want to do.

I also don't like how you can't save more than a few different sessions with Pro Tools first, and it's all in the cloud. That's very limiting.
 
Pro Tools First is really meant as a learning tool, for those interested in getting Pro Tools.

I have been using Pro Tools since version 1, and Sound Designer before that.

For what it's worth you can get Pro Tools for as little as $24.92 a month.

If you have an iLok you can even get a free 30 day trial of Pro Tools.
 
Thanks, Dave and David.
Being an amateur, with maybe some video interviews and shorts to edit sometime in the future, the $24.92 a month definitely doesn't worth my while. More so when I tend to forget to cancel monthly subscriptions when I don't use them.
I'll look at Reaper.
 
FWIW, Justin Frankel's (of WinAmp, Cockos) Reaper was basically modeled after the intuitive workflow of Vegas. Vegas is an NLE video app but started out as a DAW (audio only). Few improvements or bug fixes were made to the audio section and most were video-centric. Reaper on the other hand has had frequent updates and fixes but with the complexity came a steeper leaning curve, but no-wheres near the bizarre workflow of SlowTools. The lowest cost DAW at this point is the free open source Audacity. Vegas had always been is PC only unfortunately, but the sister app 'Sound Forge Pro' has a Mac OS/OS X version. SF allows punch-in recording BTW, but it's a multi-channel app (not to be confused with multi-track.
BTW, Vegas is now in it's 15th build and was acquired a year ago by Magix software GmbH from Sony. (Sony Pictures acquired it from Sonic Foundry (the original creator) in 2003. The audio section Vegas Pro is still more than adequate for most music and other audio work.
 
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