Post Audio Work Flow in Adobe questions

T

taras4444

Well-known member
Hey there,

Basically I'm working on a no budget feature film and (for the first time) we're recording audio separate. I've been doing a lot of research, practise and have read a lot of books but still have a few questions in regards to the process you guys may use when working on audio for film.

1) When recording separate audio, is there a way to sync the audio tracks to the relevant visual track in adobe premiere cs5.5 without having to drag the visual track down to the timeline? I have no problem in syncing up audio to visual thanks to my clapper, but I have to do it in a separate sequence in adobe and things can quickly get a bit cluttered down there. Is there a way to attach the audio to the visual in the sources monitor? I can't imagine feature films/shorts sync the audio in the unorganised way I'm doing it?

2) After recording dialogue etc onto two separate tracks (a left and right) via my sennheiser mkh50 and tascam dr100, which option is best for interpreting the audio? So far I've been make the one audio track (feature both left and right channels) into the "make stereo audio mono" option, so I have two mono tracks in my timeline. Is this ok?

3) Finally, my last main question was just in regards to the actual final output of the audio for film festivals. I understand in adobe premiere there may be numerous audio tracks (up to 10) with different dialogue, plus music tracks and special effects tracks. And I'm aware distributors want those main tracks separate (so they can remove dialogue tracks but keep the music/ambience tracks for forgein dubbing I guess), but what is the best process to do this? I assume the work flow is as follows:

* edit everything and fix audio/equalize clips indivudually via premiere/sound booth.
* Then mix down however many dialogue tracks into one track via sound booth mixer/multitrack editor, and do the same for one ambience track, music track, special effects track etc.
* Then finally once everything is equlized, fixed and has their own spatial space etc, then mix it all down into one master track for blu ray/dvd which is what people will hear when watching the film?

Am I along the right track?

Apologies for the length, It's just ive spent along time researching all this and, whilst having improved my audio knowledge expontentially, these are the few questions that stick out for me still, and I'm interested as to how the rest of you work (as I have no formal training).

Thanks and I appreciate all advice/tips.

Taras
 
Normally one should record a reference audio track on the camera, even a camera mic be used to record the sync reference track (aka, scratch track) The second system track can then be moved on the timeline using the waveforms for lineup. Alternately a clap-slate can be used as a A/V sync marker , this method has been used 'successfully' since the beginning. (of 'talkies') Others use PluralEyes, which will automatically line up the clips, though I don't know if the plugin works in Audition. I don't know if there's a stand alone version either.
Of course this is all after the a fact, and should have been recorded properly to begin with. If not, it will be a laborious process to line up the tracks. Even then, none of the above guarantee the audio/video won't noticeably drift out-of-sync on long takes.
 
1) When recording separate audio, is there a way to sync the audio tracks to the relevant visual track in adobe premiere cs5.5 without having to drag the visual track down to the timeline? I have no problem in syncing up audio to visual thanks to my clapper, but I have to do it in a separate sequence in adobe and things can quickly get a bit cluttered down there. Is there a way to attach the audio to the visual in the sources monitor? I can't imagine feature films/shorts sync the audio in the unorganised way I'm doing it?
Click to expand...

Big budget films sync off the clapper, by hand. At least if they are shooting on film they do. With things like the RED coming in TC will probably work it's way in.
It's a lot of work. Most low budget films record something to the footage so you can "phase" the separate audio tracks in. Or use Pluraleyes. The latest version I believe works stand-alone and with Adobe.


2) After recording dialogue etc onto two separate tracks (a left and right) via my sennheiser mkh50 and tascam dr100, which option is best for interpreting the audio? So far I've been make the one audio track (feature both left and right channels) into the "make stereo audio mono" option, so I have two mono tracks in my timeline. Is this ok?
Click to expand...

That is the first thing I do (in ProTools) with the "stereo" tracks I get from production. Don't end up using both, pick the best and mute the other.

3) Finally, my last main question was just in regards to the actual final output of the audio for film festivals. I understand in adobe premiere there may be numerous audio tracks (up to 10) with different dialogue, plus music tracks and special effects tracks. And I'm aware distributors want those main tracks separate (so they can remove dialogue tracks but keep the music/ambience tracks for forgein dubbing I guess), but what is the best process to do this? I assume the work flow is as follows:

* edit everything and fix audio/equalize clips indivudually via premiere/sound booth.
* Then mix down however many dialogue tracks into one track via sound booth mixer/multitrack editor, and do the same for one ambience track, music track, special effects track etc.
* Then finally once everything is equlized, fixed and has their own spatial space etc, then mix it all down into one master track for blu ray/dvd which is what people will hear when watching the film?

Am I along the right track?
Click to expand...

Pretty much. First I would not be too worried about distributors needs yet. The realistic odds of getting picked up are pretty low and if they want to dub your film they are going to have to come up with some money to do that also. The requirements for a dubed film vary around the world and you REALLY need to do a full sound post to do a decent dub. You will need full Foley coverage, and ambiences and backgrounds, all your PFX will need to be cut and moved to separate tracks, etc. Just mute all your production tracks and that is what you will hear behind the dub. If that doesn't sound like a full movie with all the actors just mouthing the dialog you are not ready for a dub.

BUT yes you are on the right track. What you are talking about are "stems". Films are typically mixed to stems and the stems are played back to make the "print master", which is the sound track that will be heard. You would normally have a dialog, ADR, Foley, FX, and Music stems. There may be more than one FX stem if there is then it's usually backgrounds and Ambiences on one and hard FX on the other.

I would also go to the stickies and look at the collection on postproduction. To do the kind of coverage you need for a dubable film you are talking in the 50-100 track range, and you really need to be doing sound in a sound editing program bot a picture editing one.

And really.... you should have a sound person doing it. I'm assuming your not a sound person or you would not be talking about working in Premier.
 
Hey thanks for the replies, it's good to know Im on the right track. Still struggling with the question though as to is there a way to sync audio in premiere source footage file with another audio file? As opposed to dragging the source file into a separate timeline, syncing and then having a big mess of different clips in a timeline which ill have to keep flicking back to when editing/ looking for new clips.

Also when you guys edit features, do you edit each scene/segment in a separate project? Then combine it all together at the end? Most i've edited is a 25 minute short and even then it was getting a little processer heavy towards the end (this feature will run 2 hours!). All the best and check out our fb page here if you're interested in the project -

www.facebook.com/theprofesionalthemovie

Thanks Taras
 
Apologies just think I discovered it myself, the merge clips option in adobe! Will try it some more later but very nice, just finished watching a tutorial :)
 
taras4444 said:
Apologies just think I discovered it myself, the merge clips option in adobe! Will try it some more later but very nice, just finished watching a tutorial :)
Click to expand...

I've not had time since shooting a short last September to work on the audio. The "merge clip" was a new item in CS5.5 which I didn't have, so, did use it. Now that I have CS6 I'll be looking at that more closely.

Before that, one did have to use the sequence time line, and sequences seem to have slightly different behaviors relative to viewing in the 'source' monitor, vs. the 'program' monitor.

That said... in the case of multiple takes, it may be that eventually the audio from one take is used with another take's video, or parts of a track that have 'betterness', for some reason like better diction/performance/noise-abatement, etc. And so, tying the audio to a specific video track, may work only if there are no other alternate tracks.
 
Just a quick one, after merging a file do you guys keep the original in adobe or discard it? Just curious
 
This may not be your question but you should never delete original material, store it someplace. Actually I would store it and make a backup.

If your talking about the virtual copy that sits in a track then I think it's probably your choice.

When I open an OMF (I do sound post) one of the first things I do is duplicate all the tracks and then disable and hide them. A friend taught me this and it's a real butt saver when you need to look back for some reason, like you deleted something you shouldn't have. I used to have to import the OMF again to find the bit. YMMV but in ProTools disabled tracks take no resources and essentially no drive space and you can hide them so you won't even have to look at them.
 
taras4444 said:
Just a quick one, after merging a file do you guys keep the original in adobe or discard it? Just curious
Click to expand...

While I've not used the 'merge' function, after creating a sequence, adding the second sound track, and aligning it to the mark, I just 'mute' the 'camera' audio. Since I don't have long 'takes', and don't plan to, I don't usually need to worry about 'later sync'. However, if you do have long takes, keeping the original camera audio, will allow on to 'resync' if there is drift between the second audio track and the camera audio.
 
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