Possibly my last post anywhere...
- Thread starter Melvin Harris
- Start date
Melvin Harris
Black Flag Member
Ha Ha Ha Ha...
(wiping tears from eyes) Gigli...
(snicker)
(choke)
Ha Ha Ha Ha... (running to bathroom, not making it in time)
Ted Spencer
Veteran
Right. It also grossed $19 Million theatrical, and certainly a lot more in DVD sales, which I was unable to track down.
A perfect example of a very recent micro-indie that made it (relatively) big for the right reason - because it was a *truly wonderful film*. Almost *everybody* I know who's seen it agrees with that, btw. It was recommended to me repeatedly by friends who'd 'discovered' it. I myself have watched it several times now. A gem...
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
i can't find any more info but it looks like the Once filmmakers made a deal with Summit for worldwide rights. Can't find a number on that but its certainly less than what Summit later re-sold North American rights to Fox Searchlight for: quoted as "under $1 million" from the press release. I cant help but to be skeptical, but i don't think John Carney is benefitting financially from its success. Can't find any evidence that he's been welcomed into the Hollywood fold and rewarded with a million dollar studio production. This is a great success story for Summit Entertainment, I'll agree with that.
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
found it... he had "Town House" set up at Scott Free but it's in limbo now and he's gone back to ireland to do "Zonad".
Indie Filmmaking: 35 tips from experts
Date was around the first of July 2009
Some of them are obvious or secret or genius or lame. But they came out of the mouths of the experts at last weekend's "Produced By" Conference during panels devoted to the financing, production, and distribution of independent films and documentaries. Here are the 35 tips:
Date was around the first of July 2009
Some of them are obvious or secret or genius or lame. But they came out of the mouths of the experts at last weekend's "Produced By" Conference during panels devoted to the financing, production, and distribution of independent films and documentaries. Here are the 35 tips:
1. Change the title of your indie film to begin with an “A” or a number to get higher placement on iTunes.
2. “Experiment and try new ways of getting your indie film out there.”
3. Clark Hallren, Managing Director of the Entertainment Industries Group for JP Morgan Securities warned, “Guys it’s tough. Phenomenal events that statistically cannot happen did happen: we’re at an interesting point in the business.”
4. Lisa Nitti of Greenberg Traurig offered a financing checklist and the necessary groundwork that indie producers must complete to have a shot at getting money: a preliminary financing plan, a solid budget and schedule, and an understanding of Hollywood guild requirements.
5. Foreign pre-sales are not as readily available as in years past.
6. Established indie producers with a successful track record have a somewhat easier time than newcomers in getting attention from international sales companies.
7. Genre always makes a difference. Forget costume dramas and spoofs.
8. “Indie producers must have names that mean something to TV worldwide; [before pre-sales can be made] international distributors need time to talk to TV folks who are covering 60%-70% of minimum guarantees,” said Edward Noeltner, President of Cinema Management Group.
9. The number of banks involved in indie film financing has constricted and greatly impacted funds available. Previous to the financial market meltdown, there were 30 to 35 players. That number has been cut by 2/3s.
10. Financiers basically want a return on their investment. “I encourage indie producers to understand their film’s audience as much as they can. Understand what you mean when you pitch project. I want to support a film, but I care about capital and return on that capital. I just want to get my money back,” explained banker Hallren.
11. Risk tolerance by investors is at an all-time low. "We’re all in a back-to-basics environment,” advised Danny Mandel, Managing Director of Newbridge Film Capital. “We won't return to where we were; now investors are all about preservation of capital.”
12. Mandel predicted that by 2010 indieprods could see more capital available.
13. In indie producers favor: distributors will always need new product to fill pipelines.
14. At the Cannes Festival, Mandel met five international distributors who wanted a movie with "Wedding" in the title.
15. New financing models are having some success, says Danae Ringelmann, Co-Founder of IndieGoGo. She cited documentary producer Robert Greenwald as an example of a new paradigm: Greenwald needed $200,000 to finance his Iraq For Sale. He turned to his substantial email distribution list. Nine days and four emails later, he had raised $276,000. Think of it as “raising money Obama-style,” suggested Ringelmann.
16. Build a fan base for an indie film before it’s even made.
17. The disappearance of a number of local and regional film critics is a major concern because it makes it tough to launch an indie movie, noted Lawrence Bender, the Oscar-winning indie producer of Pulp Fiction, An Inconvenient Truth, and the upcoming Quentin Tarantino film Inglourious Basterds. So Bender said indie filmmakers must now be content with “tweets and the craziest things,” but not the critical insights of years past.
18. Roger Corman, the quintessential indie producer (Death Race 2000, Grand Theft Auto, Rock N' Roll High School) sees the Internet as a “ray of hope” for indie producers.
19. Corman envisions a day when distributors and theaters are gone and an ASCAP-type organization collects revenues for indie producers.
20. Concensus advice on how to get an indie film made: never give up.
21. Finding a documentary subject that’s worth a two to four year commitment comes down to “you know it when you see it,” related Marina Zenovich, Director/Producer/Co-Writer of Roman Polanski: Wanted And Desired, Director/Producer of Who Is Bernard Tapie?, Director/Producer of Independents Day Zenovich.
22. “Always good to get an idea from a financier,” quipped Davis Guggenheim, Director/Producer of It Might Get Loud, Gracie, and Director/Executive Producer of An Inconvenient Truth. Guggenheim was lucky enough to be pitched by financier Thomas Tull who asked, “Do you like the electric guitar?"
23. RJ Cutler, Filmmaker and President of Actual Reality Pictures (The September Issue, The War Room) noted that marketing and outreach for every documentary film is something of a riddle, but advised producers to investigate ancillary revenues. He pointed to Morgan Spurlock who had significant returns in the educational marketplace for his feature Super Size Me, which he cut down to an hour and created an accompanying curriculum and guide.
24. Before an indie film gets to the marketplace, producers must know who the audience is for the film, counseled Dennis Rice, Founder of Visio' Entertainment. “If you can’t market your film, you shouldn’t make it. If there’s no audience, you can’t get a return on investment.”
25. Once an indie producer knows who the film’s audience is, reaching them cost effectively is the next hurdle.
26. There’s no longer a one size fits all model for indie distribution; patterns and windows are changing as are the means of distribution. New strategies include video-on-demand, checkerboard release patterns, digital downloads via iTunes.
27. “There are at least 10 distribution structures out there, and new companies popping up,” offered Liesl Copland of William Morris Endeavor Entertainment's Global Finance and Distribution Group. Among the new companies she cited: Big Beach, End Game, and Zip Line. All have been smart about marketing spends, she says.
28. Indie producers need to move past the old distribution model and learn from experimentation.
29. Copland advised indie producers to think about own their own consumer habits when making movies in this kind of market “though clarity hasn’t surfaced in new revenue streams”.
30. Ted Mundorff, CEO of Landmark Theatres, sees video on demand pre-release and then theatrical release is working for some indie titles like Steven Soderbergh’s The Girlfriend Experience. (Bubble ignited the trend. But Mundroff worries about cable companies saturating the market with titles.)
31. David Straus, Co-Founder and CEO of Withoutabox (a division of IMDb.com), implored indie producers to find ways to connect directly to audiences. “You don’t have to throw a ton of money to push a film to an audience; in an ideal world, the audience pulls film to them.”
32. Aggregating an audience is the lynchpin of this new world order. But is it something that impresses banks enough to lend money? Doubtful.
33. It’s not all doom and gloom despite the disappearance of studio-backed indie film divisions like Warner Independent.
34. There is opportunity for indie producers as long as they don’t get hung up on a 35mm theatrical film release. Ira Deutchman, CEO of Emerging Pictures, explained: “With digital, we can begin to play around with release patterns.”
35. Deutchman also recommended that indie producers “aggregate your communities.” He finds that his network of theaters does well with Jewish, gay-themed and French films as well as those that are spiritual and have "Wedding" in the title.
2. “Experiment and try new ways of getting your indie film out there.”
3. Clark Hallren, Managing Director of the Entertainment Industries Group for JP Morgan Securities warned, “Guys it’s tough. Phenomenal events that statistically cannot happen did happen: we’re at an interesting point in the business.”
4. Lisa Nitti of Greenberg Traurig offered a financing checklist and the necessary groundwork that indie producers must complete to have a shot at getting money: a preliminary financing plan, a solid budget and schedule, and an understanding of Hollywood guild requirements.
5. Foreign pre-sales are not as readily available as in years past.
6. Established indie producers with a successful track record have a somewhat easier time than newcomers in getting attention from international sales companies.
7. Genre always makes a difference. Forget costume dramas and spoofs.
8. “Indie producers must have names that mean something to TV worldwide; [before pre-sales can be made] international distributors need time to talk to TV folks who are covering 60%-70% of minimum guarantees,” said Edward Noeltner, President of Cinema Management Group.
9. The number of banks involved in indie film financing has constricted and greatly impacted funds available. Previous to the financial market meltdown, there were 30 to 35 players. That number has been cut by 2/3s.
10. Financiers basically want a return on their investment. “I encourage indie producers to understand their film’s audience as much as they can. Understand what you mean when you pitch project. I want to support a film, but I care about capital and return on that capital. I just want to get my money back,” explained banker Hallren.
11. Risk tolerance by investors is at an all-time low. "We’re all in a back-to-basics environment,” advised Danny Mandel, Managing Director of Newbridge Film Capital. “We won't return to where we were; now investors are all about preservation of capital.”
12. Mandel predicted that by 2010 indieprods could see more capital available.
13. In indie producers favor: distributors will always need new product to fill pipelines.
14. At the Cannes Festival, Mandel met five international distributors who wanted a movie with "Wedding" in the title.
15. New financing models are having some success, says Danae Ringelmann, Co-Founder of IndieGoGo. She cited documentary producer Robert Greenwald as an example of a new paradigm: Greenwald needed $200,000 to finance his Iraq For Sale. He turned to his substantial email distribution list. Nine days and four emails later, he had raised $276,000. Think of it as “raising money Obama-style,” suggested Ringelmann.
16. Build a fan base for an indie film before it’s even made.
17. The disappearance of a number of local and regional film critics is a major concern because it makes it tough to launch an indie movie, noted Lawrence Bender, the Oscar-winning indie producer of Pulp Fiction, An Inconvenient Truth, and the upcoming Quentin Tarantino film Inglourious Basterds. So Bender said indie filmmakers must now be content with “tweets and the craziest things,” but not the critical insights of years past.
18. Roger Corman, the quintessential indie producer (Death Race 2000, Grand Theft Auto, Rock N' Roll High School) sees the Internet as a “ray of hope” for indie producers.
19. Corman envisions a day when distributors and theaters are gone and an ASCAP-type organization collects revenues for indie producers.
20. Concensus advice on how to get an indie film made: never give up.
21. Finding a documentary subject that’s worth a two to four year commitment comes down to “you know it when you see it,” related Marina Zenovich, Director/Producer/Co-Writer of Roman Polanski: Wanted And Desired, Director/Producer of Who Is Bernard Tapie?, Director/Producer of Independents Day Zenovich.
22. “Always good to get an idea from a financier,” quipped Davis Guggenheim, Director/Producer of It Might Get Loud, Gracie, and Director/Executive Producer of An Inconvenient Truth. Guggenheim was lucky enough to be pitched by financier Thomas Tull who asked, “Do you like the electric guitar?"
23. RJ Cutler, Filmmaker and President of Actual Reality Pictures (The September Issue, The War Room) noted that marketing and outreach for every documentary film is something of a riddle, but advised producers to investigate ancillary revenues. He pointed to Morgan Spurlock who had significant returns in the educational marketplace for his feature Super Size Me, which he cut down to an hour and created an accompanying curriculum and guide.
24. Before an indie film gets to the marketplace, producers must know who the audience is for the film, counseled Dennis Rice, Founder of Visio' Entertainment. “If you can’t market your film, you shouldn’t make it. If there’s no audience, you can’t get a return on investment.”
25. Once an indie producer knows who the film’s audience is, reaching them cost effectively is the next hurdle.
26. There’s no longer a one size fits all model for indie distribution; patterns and windows are changing as are the means of distribution. New strategies include video-on-demand, checkerboard release patterns, digital downloads via iTunes.
27. “There are at least 10 distribution structures out there, and new companies popping up,” offered Liesl Copland of William Morris Endeavor Entertainment's Global Finance and Distribution Group. Among the new companies she cited: Big Beach, End Game, and Zip Line. All have been smart about marketing spends, she says.
28. Indie producers need to move past the old distribution model and learn from experimentation.
29. Copland advised indie producers to think about own their own consumer habits when making movies in this kind of market “though clarity hasn’t surfaced in new revenue streams”.
30. Ted Mundorff, CEO of Landmark Theatres, sees video on demand pre-release and then theatrical release is working for some indie titles like Steven Soderbergh’s The Girlfriend Experience. (Bubble ignited the trend. But Mundroff worries about cable companies saturating the market with titles.)
31. David Straus, Co-Founder and CEO of Withoutabox (a division of IMDb.com), implored indie producers to find ways to connect directly to audiences. “You don’t have to throw a ton of money to push a film to an audience; in an ideal world, the audience pulls film to them.”
32. Aggregating an audience is the lynchpin of this new world order. But is it something that impresses banks enough to lend money? Doubtful.
33. It’s not all doom and gloom despite the disappearance of studio-backed indie film divisions like Warner Independent.
34. There is opportunity for indie producers as long as they don’t get hung up on a 35mm theatrical film release. Ira Deutchman, CEO of Emerging Pictures, explained: “With digital, we can begin to play around with release patterns.”
35. Deutchman also recommended that indie producers “aggregate your communities.” He finds that his network of theaters does well with Jewish, gay-themed and French films as well as those that are spiritual and have "Wedding" in the title.
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I just mentioned "once" because of the budget, handicam technique, and song winning. However, I didn't like it at all...Waaay to unrealistic. 17 year old girls don't have any interest in a 35 year old busker playing guitar in the cold. Jonus brothers? Yes. Big older grizzly guy with a beard? No...
No...I'm afraid they like boys around their own age and would simply think someone like that a perv. If there were at least 2 girls, they would point, make fun, and laugh at him. Even more unrealistic is the fact she initaltes the conversation. Sorry....just doesn't happen in real life.
But what do critics know? To them, it was totally realistic because they don't really know any better. How do I know? Don't ask...
No...I'm afraid they like boys around their own age and would simply think someone like that a perv. If there were at least 2 girls, they would point, make fun, and laugh at him. Even more unrealistic is the fact she initaltes the conversation. Sorry....just doesn't happen in real life.
But what do critics know? To them, it was totally realistic because they don't really know any better. How do I know? Don't ask...
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
are you aware that the two actors dated... in real life?
yep...and just separated after the tour...amazingly convenient
art imitating life...uh...life imitating art...uh...
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filmman
Veteran
Since most movies shot for under $30 million lose all the money invested in them, it's best not to shoot films for more than you can comfortably lose. For me, as filmmaker who has made his living making movies for forty years, that means not spending more than $100. I actually prefer zero budget features.
I don't know anybody who has $30 million in his pocket right now. But it should be remembered that a $30 million movie also requires at least $30 million in advertising. Actually advertising budgets are now about $75 million regardless of how much a movie costs. I'm talking theatrical feature films now -- which is what the original poster implied by the question: "...why is it impossible...." The only movies that guarantee the money will be recovered are the ones that have actors like Julia Roberts and Tom Cruise in the lead.
So if you don't have studio backing (do you know anyone personally who has studio backing?), you should make movies for as little as possible. Zero budget is my preference because I can do it, I've done it, and I enjoy to make feature films for nothing, I really do. Please, buy one of my DVDs, they're on Amazon. Search for THE CHASE BY VIC ALEXANDER. It was shot in three days (4 hour days, so total of 12 hours production time -- I'm getting old and easily get tired). I edited the movie in one week and gave copies to my actors (according to contract, copy and credit). I spent another few days on re-doing the music and encoding the movie for Amazon. (I go through CreateSpace -- a great company that's a subsidiary of Amazon.)
http://www.amazon.com/CHASE-Vic-Ale...ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1252132341&sr=8-1
But if you're young and lucky and can get some money together, go ahead and follow the great advice given on this thread; everyone here has experience making movies and there have been some great comments and recommendations here. They're all true. It depends on what you want to do; there is no right or wrong and no amount of money that should or should not be spent; it's just what you can afford, what makes you happy, what you can afford to lose, plus a myriad of other considerations (I know people that have found their spouse while shooting a movie -- regardless of budget or genre
Good luck and happy shooting.
rahulvictor
Active member
ChipG, no reason to leave the thread, you've provided some good points (even if I don't always agree with everything you say
But if we can back up for a second, what I'm also curious about is how people get their budgets in the first place. Even 50k or 100k, which is nothing for Hollywood, is a good amount of money for most of us. I know that there's no one single way to get this type of financing...but does anyone care to share how they were able to personally get their budgets secured? Other people's money, your own,...?
But if we can back up for a second, what I'm also curious about is how people get their budgets in the first place. Even 50k or 100k, which is nothing for Hollywood, is a good amount of money for most of us. I know that there's no one single way to get this type of financing...but does anyone care to share how they were able to personally get their budgets secured? Other people's money, your own,...?
jls4
Veteran
For everyone it'll be different. For Coming Correct, we raised half of our money from investors and the other half my wife and I paid out of pocket. I'm hoping to have more investors and larger investors for my next major project.