Possible rig ideas for rotating camera?

R

RupertPupkin

Active member
Hey guys,

So a specific type of camera move that always wows me is when the camera is rotating on its axis, however I can't quite figure out how it is done, unless they just have specific, expensive rigs that does it for them.

Some examples of what I'm talking about....

The ending scene of Irreversible, most notably the sprinkler shot (I realize that on this level they were using a crane of some sort, but you get the idea...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di7jD-_ixo4

At 1:20 in this music video (which is rather impressively shot might I add) they do a similar shot where the camera is rotating on its axis, also at 2:18 it is done again, just a bit more subtly, and again at 2:35.
https://vimeo.com/75029458

I think the same move is used at one point in 2001 as well, when one of the astronauts is walking through one of the narrow tunnels in the space station.

So for movies like Irreversible and 2001 I have no doubt that they had big expensive rigs because of their budget, but for shots like in the music video is it possible they did it some other way? The only thing I can think of is perhaps having the camera on a rig with a handle, and rotating it by hand, with the slow motion and possibly a warp stabilizer in post to help with the smoothness.

I understand the shot is pretty "gimmicky" but I quite like it and would like to try and experiment with some sort of DIY solution for doing it. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

EDIT: Actually just found a different clip from 2001 with the same move, at the very end with the stewardess entering the cockpit...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iiXUeil5fQ

An almost identical shot to any of Noe's rotating camera shots, a director who uses the shot more than anyone (there are identical shots in Enter the Void as well)

Quite funny how there is a 2001 movie poster in the Irreversible clip, I wonder if Noe was in anyway inspired by Kubrick. (just kidding he obviously was)
 
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The Weaver-Steadman fluid head can be configured to achieve 360 degree rotation on what is called a camera's "Nodal Point", I think. I don't know if they are still manufactured or not. They are very expensive on the used market and are available for rental in many medium to larger areas.

Here is a link to the operating manual.
 
There are two heads that are designed to accomplish this amongst other advantages.

The Ronford F4 and the Weaver Steadman.

I have the WS and one can simply configure the 2 axis actions and mount the camera sideways on the base plates.
 
Grip solutions for this type of shot are expensive.

There is another way with any modern high resolution camera ie. Sony or Reds (new BMC4K?). Simple mount the camera sideways on sticks of whatever, shoot the shot loose, than take into post & rotate the image to what speed of degree or rotation you want along the centre axis of the frame . ( you will need to enlarge or punch in the image until the frame edges disappear, hence the need for a higher rez camera) .

If you have access to a hi rez camera its cheap & effective.
 
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Ive done this.. with an NEX5n, a camera like that is light enough that you may be able to do with a normal head mounted (via a hihat maybe mounted on some plywood) sideways on some grip bits and bobs.

Getting it centralised is hard even when you have a sack of bits and bobs of grip, certainly it helps to have access to a milling machine and make an L plates but with some cash there are things like this from RRS..

http://www.wonderfulphotos.com/articles/cameras/rrs_pano/images/UltimateOPP-Pro.gif

which mounted on a video head (mounted sideways) will get you there..

S
 
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The clip from 2001 is actually a very different set up. In that, the camera and set were built on a rotating rig. When the girl walked "UP" the side of the cabin, the set was actually rotating and she was still standing at the bottom.
 
Justin Kuhn said:
I am going nuts over that Gesaffelstein video. Any idea what they used for flashes?
Click to expand...

Not sure about the flashes. That doesn't look that complicated and I have done similar flashes like that just riding the on/off switch with an open faced tungsten light. I did not see the light "Decay" or the short, but noticeable fading out and color temp change, that you get from a tungsten bulb as it goes out so I would think that in the video they probably had some kind of programmable powerful strobe light for the flashes.

Gesaffelstein has made other elaborate videos. This one is kind of cool. It is NSFW.

 
Wow, thanks for all the answers guys.

It's a shame those tripod heads are so insanely expensive.

Morgan, could you possibly further elaborate on how you achieved this effect? I'm having a hard time following your steps, thanks.

David, in the 2001 clip I realize that the set is rotating around the camera as she walks up the wall, I'm referring to the shot right after that of her delivering the food to the two pilots, the camera is rotating but the set is not.
 
Another three-axis nodal head is the Cartoni Lamda.

There is another way to achieve this on set. A periscope lens with a prism can be oriented throughout 360 degrees and therefore usually has a ring to rotate the image on it's axis. Some models even have gearing on this ring so that a motor can drive it smoothly. The HD Scope is a good example of one available in a relatively small size. Another is the Fraizer Lens system available from Panavision. There are others as well.

When the HD Scope debuted at NAB years ago, I demonstrated it in the AbelCine booth by putting a motor on it for this rotation and sticking it through a Star Trek Tri-Dimensional chess set. Got a lot of attention, including one guy who casually walked over, said "that's an illegal move," adjusted a chess piece and moved on.
 
Surf it Mike said:
Grip solutions for this type of shot are expensive.

There is another way with any modern high resolution camera ie. Sony or Reds (new BMC4K?). Simple mount the camera sideways on sticks of whatever, shoot the shot loose, than take into post & rotate the image to what speed of degree or rotation you want along the centre axis of the frame . ( you will need to enlarge or punch in the image until the frame edges disappear, hence the need for a higher rez camera) .

If you have access to a hi rez camera its cheap & effective.
Click to expand...

Agreed, provided you have an appropriate camera, this is one case where doing it in post seems a lot easier, faster and more controllable than doing it in camera.
 
I was just brain storming and came up with a possible DIY solution, it wouldn't be pretty but I think it could work.

You would need a metal pole with some sort of L bracket attached at the end. You would attach the camera to the end, and if you could rest the pole in some sort of notch on a tripod or something that allowed you to rotate the pole, the camera would rotate along with it.

Kind of like a jib, but you can rotate the jib arm.

I hope that made sense...

Does anyone see any problems with that idea?
 
3 skateboard trucks mounted on a wood frame, 60 degrees apart, wheels inwards. Place a piece of PVC tube in the middle, that has bolt for mounting the camera.

It is essentially a large bearing. You will be able to rotate the PVC tube, and it will be held in place by the trucks. Here is a simple diagram. Should be simple enough to make!

DgoC61O.jpg
 
morgan_moore said:
Here is a 3d cad rendering for you.

tripod, plywood L, hi hat, head, L (diy or RRS), camera

View attachment 80283
Click to expand...
I had a variant of this rig in my kit for years. I actually had a C-shaped plate made for underslinging from an inverted tripod head, with one end of the "C" removable to create an L-shaped plate. Just note that you need a very hefty tripod head as this sort of rig submits it to way higher torque and other forces than most tripod heads are designed to take.

The no-budget way to make this spin smoothly is a long arm clamped to the pan arm, as the variations in speed with be more subtle over the greater radius. The next best way is with a motor and rubber belt drive system -- that's fancy stuff.
 
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...-centerpoint&p=1836657&viewfull=1#post1836657

From DVXuser about three years ago. :)

1260404611.jpg



From over five years ago (October 2008)

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?149905-rotating-shot




Seems this comes up every two years or so :P
 
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I suggest a cam like the nex5n for shots like these unless of course you have the proper kit.

being both light and short the forces melt away..
 
Haha, thanks for the 3d cad rendering, Morgan, it was actually exactly what I was looking for, answered all my questions.

I'm shooting with a Canon T3i which I'm assuming is still light enough to not put too much force on the tripod.

And Ryan, thanks for finding those past threads, they are also filled with awesome information.
 
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