Portable wireless audio solution possible with multiple sources?

A

andrew00

Well-known member
Hi,

I originally posted this thread - http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=1256294#post1256294 - which details a passion project of mine - filming bands playing in the streets in one continuous shot.

A key component of this is the need to mic bands wireless if possible. I have used a shotgun/boom combo and also zoom h4 but this method restricts freedom of movement and spontaneous action, which is a key feature of this type of filming. In essence, it produces quality but inhibits the unique 'anything can happen' feel.

Originally I purchased 5x AT Atr35s lapel mics and 5x Transcend t.sonic 630 mp3 players, which record at okish 44khz sound. In the thread posted above it was, rightly, pointed out that in a musical environment I should be recording the audio at higher quality. I agree and have been searching for solutions online, as well as gorging on the great wisdom through the search function on here.

I'm writing today because I'm stumped. I would appreciate any advice on creating the audio solution that I want, the process would be as follows:

- Each member of the band is mic'd with a lav mic and wireless pack
- Their sound feed then feeds into a portable recorder that can record all these feeds simultaneously and can be carried by one person.
- These feeds are recorded as 5 seperate feeds for usage in editing.

Currently I am stumped as to what can do this at a decent price, I see my solutions as follows:

1) Buy Iriver Ifp mp3 players - this is in essence a quality pgrade from my ghetto plan above and these can record up to 360kbs mp3. Feed lav's directly into these which are placed in musician's pockets
2) Buy 5x wireless receiver + transmitter, put 2 into camera, put 2 into zoom and 2 into another recorder.
3) The ideal above is 5x transmitters going into one receiver that can record all 5 as 5 seperate audio tracks.

Option 1 can be done by going on ebay and waiting for the mp3 players to arrive
Option 2 seems very expensive. I seem one option of plugging each of these receivers into a Fostex MR8mk2 or something but that'd be costly - 5x receiver/transmitters + fostex + mics if I upgrade is a lot of dough compared to me ghetto 150 quid current setup.
Option 3 I have no idea about, which is what I'm hoping can be answered.



I've done a lot of searches on the forum, but I'm still confused on this issue so please offer advice where possible. I very much appreciate it, I don't know if this is a commonly asked issue or not but I appreciate your time nonetheless.

Cheers,

Andy
 
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Your option three is impossible. 5 transmitters operating at once requires they each be on their own dedicated frequency to avoid interference. That means in turn that each transmitter has its own dedicated receiver tuned to its frequency. There are dual channel units that put two receivers in one box but I'm not aware of any with more than that.

A bag with 5 receivers plus a portable multitrack recorder (Sound Devices has a nifty new 8-channel unit just coming out for a mere 6 thousand USS <grin>) is the pro way to go but the budget is well over your "150 quid ghetto" option.
 
mac PowerBook and fireface 400. Not really portable but can leave off to the side. Can get 8 ISO tracks. Computer will power fireface. Cost about $2500 without wireless
 
How about this? Each person has a lav connected to a Zoom H2, which he/she wears just as they would wear a wireless transmitter pack. Each audio gets its own separate track, and you can put them together in post. The H2 sells for about $200.
 
chapelgrovefilms said:
How about this? Each person has a lav connected to a Zoom H2, which he/she wears just as they would wear a wireless transmitter pack. Each audio gets its own separate track, and you can put them together in post. The H2 sells for about $200.
Click to expand...

I'd worry that the Zoom's sample clocks would be consistent enough from unit to unit to not give headaches in post. I would expect his plan of recording the individual musical instruments of a group would require tighter sync between the recorders than dialog. Still, might be worth a shot.
 
This is clearly one of those times when you would need something with timecode to help you keep everything in sync. I would recommend you go the Mac route with Boom Recorder and any one of a number of different interfaces - I use the Alesis FW 16 mixer as my interface and it works great. Requires 110V power, though.

Phil
 
Thank you for the replies, I appreciate your advice as this has baffled me for a while!

So in essence, if I've got this right, what we're saying is that in order for me to record 5 musicians are once I need either 5 receivers + transmitters or an audio console with dual channel receivers. Either way that option will be very expensive and is therefore not really viable for me at present.

I could get a dual channel receiver that would go into the camera, but this would take only 2 channels, so I'd need two of them, one going into the zoom the other the camera and then try to sync them in post, where naturally I'd again have to spend serious cash on 4/5 transmitters in the first place.

Edit - Googling has led me to this - http://www.rawpower.co.uk/acatalog/Handheld_Radio_Wireless_Mics.html - if you pan down the page there's a DAP Audio COM-54 4 Channel Wireless Microphone System although I don't really know the name so it could be rubbish, it does at least claim to be able to take 4 channels wireless. I'm getting a vision in my head of hooking this up to a battery and wearing down around the waist! Although I'm assuming then I'd still need something to record the audio - so we'd need either 4 recorders or all 4 sources would go into one mono mix which would presumably get messy!

Another option would be to record directly into a laptop, I do have a mac book pro, but this isn't really viable because it implies everyone/mic has to be connected do the mixer or I'll still have to plug 5 wireless receivers into the mixer, either way it's not really 'portable'.

The third option is to upgrade my current setup and go the route of giving each musician a mp3 player/digital audio recorder to record directly into, and to place in their pockets. This way, whilst good in theory, lacks the ability to control the sound and is kinda of a live in hope method. It also means I might get drifting issues because of the timecodes of these products.

Have I got that right? That that's essentially my choice.
 
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You can get a cart for the gear and easily tow that around.

Also you can rent the gear you need when you need it.

Good luck
 
andrew00 said:
Thank you for the replies, I appreciate your advice as this has baffled me for a while!

...It also means I might get drifting issues because of the timecodes of these products.

Have I got that right? That that's essentially my choice.
Click to expand...

It's not just timecode - really all timecode does is make it easier to line everything up. The harder problem is keeping everything aligned for the duration of the song and that's a factor of the accuracy of the sample clocks themselves. Cheap mp3 player/recorders just are not built to the tolerances that professional sound gear is - if the sample clocks in the various recorders aren't running at exactly the same rate to very tight tolerances, the tracks that were recorded together will playback at slightly different rates, meaning that they will be of slightly different lengths - line 'em all up in your editor so the first note of the song is played simultaneous on all tracks and by the time the song ends 3 or 5 minutes later they won't be playing together at all - it'll sound like Lisa Simpson's band rehearsal <grin> If you're going to put a recorder on each performer and can't afford pro-level like Zaxcom's combined wireless and recorder, your best shot is with recorders like the Zoom H2 that is of a slightly better quality than the mp3 toys and can record uncompressed wav files so at least you have a fighting chance of adjusting length slightly in post.

You have other options.

4th option: rent the gear you need to do the job right.

5th option: music videos are almost never shot to live performance. Record the music in a proper studio and shoot the video to playback. What's important is the result, not so much how you got it. Being able to say "we recorded it all in the actual locations as we filmed" won't get you any medals from anyone.

6th option: defer the shoot until you can raise money to have a better budget.
 
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Steve,

You really hit on the solution - something I had forgotten about. Rent 5 Zaxcom ZFR100's and lav everyone up. Each one is a dedicated recorder, has full timecode and sample rate support and are very high quality. So, you get the benefit of timecode to sync everything up and consistent sample rates so they stay in sync throughout the song. You can use one of the ZFR's as your tc source, or rent a TC generator (actually better choice) and rent a single comtek tx/rx combo and send the TC to one track of your camera and then everything will be TC stamped the same, and you can easily sync everything in post.

Phil
 
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