portable location light (no generator needed) ?

Going out tomorrow to test the honda generator, it's apparently an EU6500iSA ....thats more watts than we need. But we're not using this one.
My friend's dad needs it, as it's from his work (not sure what job it is...mechanic of sorts I believe) anyway, if the sound is okay with his far enough away, I'll go the 3000w Honda generator route, otherwise the arri with a few battery belts will do fine.


Final question > anyone rented from budgetvideo.com ? I want to use them as they have all I need in one place and good prices, but I'm afraid that it will cost and arm and a leg or two just to return items to them (the shipping cost of something like a jib and dolly would be more than my budget almost).

do they have some deal sorted out where for example: a truck comes to my place and picks up the items and I only have to pay that guy a few hundred bucks?
 
You said a forest, but how dense is the tree covering? You can always just get away with a shiney board and a 4x4 frame of diffusion. No generator needed and it's about as low tech as it gets...You could probably rent it all for 50 bucks a day.

The only catch for this one is you need direct sunlight. As soon as you lose that, you lose your light for the day.
 
The forest isn't too dense, but the scene requires it to be overcast, or just cloudy. We don't want the hard shadows, and there are many shots on a sort of "ledge" that shows off quite a bit of sky and distance...for the mood of the scene there it shouldn't be too clear or "pretty" with a bright sunny day.

going for this kind of look: http://s92.photobucket.com/albums/l12/film_guy01/Children of Men/Children151.jpg

But after on location tests with HVX, when I expose so that nothing (well, except the odd spot in the sky) is overexposed, the detail in the actors clothes and faces, especially the eyes is all lost. And I needed the ND on the second or third (depending on time of day) notch, so any reflector light wasn't strong enough.
I'd need an actual light or two to bounce and help fill in details and get a nice "eye light".
 
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GND said:
Going out tomorrow to test the honda generator, it's apparently an EU6500iSA ....thats more watts than we need.
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If you have access to a EU6500is, go for it. It might be more power than you need, but it offers you some possibilities that the 3000is does not that can make a big difference when it comes to recording sound without picking up the noise of the generator. Check out this thread “Running Lights off a Generator” (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=210184) for details on how to record clean audio tracks with a Honda EU6500is generator.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight and Grip, Boston, MA
 
GND said:
Final question > anyone rented from budgetvideo.com ? I want to use them as they have all I need in one place and good prices, but I'm afraid that it will cost and arm and a leg or two just to return items to them (the shipping cost of something like a jib and dolly would be more than my budget almost).

do they have some deal sorted out where for example: a truck comes to my place and picks up the items and I only have to pay that guy a few hundred bucks?
Click to expand...

I doubt they are going to send a truck from Miami to Toronto for a few hundred bucks. If for instance you were to rent a Honda 6500is from them you are probably looking at $300-$400 to ship it each way - and that is by standard truck freight which will take 4-5 days. They say they do not charge rental days for transit, but they only mention shipping overnight or 2nd day. I would bet that if you went a slower service, you would incur rental days for transit. And, you are probably going to need a carnet for customs to bring it into Canada.

It's a lot of trouble for little benefit. Their rental rates are probably not cheaper than your local rental house and your local rental house offers advantages they do not. For instance, you will be able to check out the gear when you pick it up at your local rental house, so you can be assured it works (hasn't be damaged in transit.) And, if you have a problem on set, you can call your local rental house for support. All around your local rental house is going to be your best bet. I would only use a place like Budget Video Rentals if it is something that you can not get locally.

- Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight and Grip, Boston, MA
 
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Thanks for the reply,
it's true what you say about budgetvideo rentals....I forgot about custom fee's for shipments coming across the border. Last thing I want is : "Here's your stuff, oh but first, that'll be $1500" from the delivery guy.

I do have plenty of local rental options, just not one that has all I need in one place like budgetvideo has. ....so I was trying to avoid having to drive all over town renting and returning equipment to three places. But, it may just need to be the way.

And I'm working on getting my friend to talk his dad into letting us use the honda (provided it's not too distruptive to the sound)
 
Have you looked into the Joker Bug 200 or 400 by k5600? The 200 is the most portable and can run off two hytron 140's. Extremely portable. The 400 requires an extra component called a slimverter and uses a belt, so its a bit more cumbersome, but if its going to be on a stand, not too bad. They're everywhere here in L.A., so I would imagine they'd be pretty easy to track down in Toronto.
 
GND said:
Thanks for the reply,
it's true what you say about budgetvideo rentals....I forgot about custom fee's for shipments coming across the border. Last thing I want is : "Here's your stuff, oh but first, that'll be $1500" from the delivery guy.

I do have plenty of local rental options, just not one that has all I need in one place like budgetvideo has. ....so I was trying to avoid having to drive all over town renting and returning equipment to three places. But, it may just need to be the way.
Click to expand...


Dude... I didn't post that link as a recommendation of where to rent - just what to rent.

Whites in Toronto has that stuff: http://www.whites.com/section_equipment/lighting_grip.asp

.
 
Joker-Bug kits (with battery's and such) are a tad expensive for my budget.
I am able to get a set of HMI lights for fairly cheap, so my plan was to use them along with a generator to power them.

After testing with the Honda, the noise wasn't a problem...we were able to get it far enough away, though for one section there wasn't a place to hide it.


Chris, I thought it was a recommendation because I figured you would have said (well, typed) what to rent rather than sending the link. It was helpful though (the link).
Budgetvideo would have been perfect, I got excited when I saw the site...then the revelation hit me about paying shipping to return to them. Didn't mean for it to come across as a complaint towards you posting the link.

whites is great, though a little far for me to get too that's why I was looking for another place....I did google and found three rental places closer to my location, that all carry the Arri pocket par, and two of the three have generators.
 
So you have production insurance??? 'cause not many places in T.O. will rent those lights to you (esp judging from your experience level) without solid insurance certs.
About the only place will be Vistek, even then you'll need a credit card.

As for the genny, there are 100's of places in Toronto that rent them... Simple google search shows them to you, try Home Depot, Stephensons, Battlefield, etc.

You'll need to pick up your gear, no-one will deliver to you - esp on your budget.

G.
 
heavyG said:
As for the genny, there are 100's of places in Toronto that rent them... Simple google search shows them to you, try Home Depot, Stephensons, Battlefield, etc.
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GND should stick with the Honda EU6500is even if he has to go out of his way to rent it from a film rental house. He can use a home-depot type of generator, but only if he is using incandescent lights (not the most efficient source) and he is not using the generator as his primary supply for tech and he is not recording sound. But where he wants to use HMIs and record sound, it matters not only what type of generator he uses but also what type of HMI ballasts he uses. The harmonic noise that magnetic and non-PFC electronic ballasts (both HMI & Kino) kick back into the power stream can have a severe adverse effect on the power waveform of conventional AVR generators like those that are available from the “100's of places” like Home Depot, Stephensons, Battlefield, etc.. The harmonic noise these light sources generate will not nearly have as bad an effect on the power supplied by an inverter generator like the Honda EU6500is. The Honda EU6500is will also generate less than half the noise of Home Depot type generators – making it easier to record clean audio tracks. For more details on what type of generator to use with HMIs and fluorescent lights see the following thread: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=58422&page=4. Use this link - www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html - for more information about the advantages to using inverter generators for motion picture lighting.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Boston
 
No problem with production insurance,
using my dad's company (he's co-producing), and he's in post production...a color timer at delux labs here in toronto for over 30 years.
But I did think about that, which is why I got him involved.


And I'm prepared to pick up my gear, it's not a big problem, only 2 trips around town....renting for the week rental rates so I'm not driving back and forth every day.
Budget is about $5-6 grand, that's good enough for the equipment rental I need plus some food/drinks for actors and crew.
And I already have the HVX and heavy duty tripid, and a friend of a friend with a glidecam 4000

Going with the Honda (My friends' dad's), he's agreed to let us use it....and like I said, we couldn't hear it on our mic during the tests we did - managed to get it pretty darn far away and behind this huge mountain of dirt, kinda acted like a sound barrier.

Seems to be a lot of Dad's helping this one out....shooting should end right in time for father's day. ha
 
GND said:
managed to get it (Honda EU6500is) pretty darn far away and behind this huge mountain of dirt, kinda acted like a sound barrier.
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How far away will the generator be from your set? What is the largest light you will be using?

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Boston, MA
 
We didn't officially measure the distance, but it was the length of 1 50 foot extension cord, and a 25 foot cord away - so 75 feet, and then behind a large pile of dirt (large as in taller than a truck).
not to mention tons of trees and bushes between us an it.

The largest light we are using is 2500, and probably using two of them at once.
 
GND said:
The largest light we are using is 2500, and probably using two of them at once.
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Without special distro equipment you defininitely will not be able to run two 2500W HMIs on a Honda 6500is, and you may not be able to run even one. It really depends on whether your 2.5 HMI has a magnetic or electronic ballast, and whether the electronic ballast has Power Factor Correction (PFC) or not. Only a Power Factor Corrected electronic ballast will operate reliably on a EU6500is. Where electronic HMI ballasts are typically auto-sensing multi-volt ballasts (with an operating range of 90 - 125 & 180-250 Volts), you can plug it directly into the 120V 3 pin twist-lock receptacle on the generator and it will draw approximately 23 Amps which is well within the rated continuous load capacity of the generator (where 2.5 kw ballasts are typically wired with a 120V 60Amp Bates Plug (Stage Pin) you will need a 120V 60A Female Bates to 120V 3 pin twist-lock adapter to plug your 2.5kw ballast directly into the generator. ) If the electronic ballast is not Power Factor Corrected it will draw approximately 35 Amps at 120V, so you will not be able to run it off of the 30A/120V twist-lock receptacle without tripping it's fuse.

Even though a 2.5kw magnetic ballast draws approximately 26 amps you will not be able to run it reliably on the 30A/120V twist-lock receptacle on the generator's power panel. That is because even though the twist-lock receptacle is rated for 30 Amps the EU6500is generator is only capable of sustaining a peak load of 27 Amps per leg for a short period of time. Their Continuous Load capacity (more than 30 minutes) is 23 Amps per leg. And if there is any line loss from a long cable run, the draw of a 2.5 magnetic ballast will climb to upward of 30 Amps. To make matters worse magnetic ballasts have a high front end striking load. That is, a magnetic ballast draws more current during the striking phase and then they "settle down" and require less power to maintain the HMI Arc. By contrast, an electronic ballast "ramps up". That is, its' current draw gradually builds until it "tops off." For this reason, you must always leave "head room" on the generator for the high front end striking load of magnetic ballasts.

And to complicate matters even more, the lagging power factor caused by the inductive reactance of the magnetic ballast kicking harmonic currents back into the power stream causes spikes in the supply voltage that can cause erratic tripping of the breakers on the generator or ballast. For a more detailed explanation of why that is I, suggest you read my article on the use of portable generators. The article is available at www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html. In my experience the load of a 2.5kw magnetic ballast is too near the operating threshold of a 6500W generator for it to operate reliably 100% of the time.

Transformer-Distro_Sam3.jpg

A Transformer/Distro can step down the 240V output of a generator to a single 120V circuit that is capable of accommodating the high front end striking load, and even the voltage spikes, of large HMI magnetic ballasts.​

The only reliable way to power a 120V 2.5kw (or even a 4kw) HMI magnetic ballast on a portable gas generator is from the 240V circuit of a Honda EU6500is through a 240v-to-120v step down transformer. A transformer will step down the 240V output of the EU6500is generator to a single 46A 120V circuit that is capable of accommodating the high front end striking load, and even the voltage spikes, of either a 2.5kw or 4kw magnetic ballast at 120V. By combining the full power of the Honda EU6500is into a single circuit, a step down transformer will also enable you to run two 2.5kw HMIs if both ballasts are Power Factor Corrected. To run two 2.5kw HMIs with magnetic ballasts will require a modified Honda EU6500is. There are additional benefits to be gained by powering your HMIs through a Transformer/Distro. See this thread http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=117327] Problems with magnetic ballasts for HMIs for more information on the use of transformers with portable generators.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Boston, MA
 
Ah, thanks for the info!

But what about 2500w fresnels (with CTB gels to convert to daylight) and not HMI ?

That was the plan anyway, as fresnels cost way less to rent and I already have access to a bunch of gels.
 
GND said:
But what about 2500w fresnels (with CTB gels to convert to daylight) and not HMI ?
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If by "2500W fresnels" you mean 2000W Tungsten Fresnels, and not HMIs, you will be able to operate two of them on the generator as long as they are on separate circuits of the generator. The Honda EU6500is has two separate 20A circuits, one on each leg of the generator. Each 2000W tungsten fresnel will draw about 16.8 Amps, so as long as they are on separate circuits you should not have a problem. Just be aware that you do not have much power on either circuit after the 2k fresnels. Use this link - www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html - for a schematic of the output panel of a typical 5500-6500W generator.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Boston, MA
 
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