Please help me with my audio arsenal.

2 CMITS?
In my opinion absolutely overkill.
with your existing kit i would first put your money into buying higher end wireless systems like the lectro 411 or SRa.


What camera do you shoot to?
While its great to use an external recorder if the camera records good sound (key word IF)
I wouldn't worry about a recorder.
Obviously you have a budget so if you go with a recorder i'd personally stay with
a SD 788T or a Zaxcom Fusion or the like.
You also didn't mention a mixer.
The 744T only has 2 mic pres. Even with the 788T you're going to either need a CL8 controller or an external mixer like a SD552 if you want to work out of a bag.


There is a new recorder coming out from Zaxcom called the Nomad, but I personally wont be touching ANY zaxcom products out there
unless they have been out for quite awhile and road tested by many users before me, but
if you don't mind being a total guinea pig that might be an excellent route to go.

Personally if I was you, I would get 1 Schoeps CMC6/41 and one CMIT. The 2 will mix just fine if you need 2 going at once.


Please understand, the gear is just a tool. You need guys who totally understand how to use the tools correctly.
Obviously if you hand an novice a Alexa the picture is still going to look novice-like.
Same goes for sound.
 
GaryOldman said:
or risk boom noise as the boom man moves the mic back and forth between actors during the scene.
Click to expand...

That's where a good boom, good shock mounting, AND a good boom op (sometimes using gloves depending) come in. Based on the budget you're talking about though, and that you're already using a sound guy, what's the reason you're not just renting gear and/or hiring a sound guy that already has his own gear?
 
You may or may not need to run two booms at once. It really depends on the scene. Sometimes on union TV shows and features, where there is a 3 person sound crew, the sound utility needs to grab a boom and help the boom op if there is a scene with lots of people, or two subjects far enough apart to where one boom op can't cue the mic properly. If you can afford it, sure, get too shotgun mics, but I agree with what pretty much everything Rippie said.
 
GaryOldman said:
Thanks, Rippie.

Right now I'm shooting with an EX3. Sometimes on narratives, since I often shoot in fairly rough terrain, I leave the EX3 at home and use a 5DmkII. This fall I'd like to upgrade to an F3. Other than those three, I don't see myself working with any other cams for a while.

This shows how naive I am toward audio: I was hoping the SD744T would be enough, and that I wouldn't need a mixer as well! Was hoping I could have the 744T in a bag around my sound guy's neck, connect the mics, and be done with it. Sounds like the mixer is essential? Not sure why I'm sticking with Sound Devices. I played with some of their gear at B&H last time I was in New York, and I just liked it.

Finally, regarding my choice of two CMITs. I was under the impression for an outdoor dialogue scene, two guys walking next to each other, optimal mic placement would be two shotguns right above each actor. Definitely overkill? Isn't the CMIT's range fairly limited? I'm afraid if I use one mic for both actors, I either settle for less clarity by placing the mic between them, or risk boom noise as the boom man moves the mic back and forth between actors during the scene.

I now wish I'd studied audio as seriously as film and video when I was in college.

Thanks again!
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An Ex3 wouldn't be considered stellar in audio recording by any means. For most work it would be acceptable for dialog recording though.
In my opinion you would definitely notice the quality difference between that camera and a higher end recorder.
The 744 would absolutely be "enough" to record top end stuff.

The reason I mentioned going up to the 788T would be the routing possibilities to send a reference to camera, a reference to Comtek's (wireless headsets) etc.
Also the 744 isn't supported quite as well as the 788T these days. (probably not going to get many substantial software upgrades).
Also the 788T can use the CL-8 (Or CL-9) controller. With that combo you would not need an external mixer.

So $7000 or so for a 788T and CL-8
or about $7000 for a 744T and SD 552

788T would in my opinion be the better choice.

(I'm purposely staying away from talking about $400 dollar recorders, etc because it seems that you have a budget to go full tilt)

As far as booming 2 people on the street who are standing next to each other that is definitely a situation for 1 boom mic
and a talented boom op.

If you go with one CMC6/41 and one CMIT your bases will be covered for most duel boom work.
(and saving you $4000 too boot)

If you're talking about up'ing your game its time to fork over the $ for the better wireless systems out there.
My recommendation for the best bang to buck would be going for Lectro SRA and SM transmitters.
The duel receiver will allow for 2 transmitters to be used with it.
So 2x SRA's plus transmitters could do 4 channels of audio.

Once again stressing that the gear is about 15% of the final product. The rest is the knowledge of how to use it.
The one good thing you have going is if you purchase nothing but the top end stuff out there, the re-sale value is going to remain high.
So if in 6 months you realize it makes more sense to hire a sound person and his gear your equipment will do well on the open market.

I've owned everything discussed here and thats my opinion ;)

Btw, While I love the sound of the Schoeps CMIT, I am not impressed by its reach.
While it doesn't sound quite as good (its still fantastic) my Sanken Cs3e has a much longer reach (can work a bit farther away from someones mouth
and still make it sound tight). Something to consider as well.
 
GaryOldman said:
Hello, I shoot weddings and industrials, but lately I've been getting fairly serious about my own narrative projects. For my videography I use Sennheiser 416's, Sennheiser G3 lavalieres, and of course a trusty boom man.

I've avoided diving in deeper with audio because so far, clients haven't had a single problem with things the way they are.

But honestly, I don't feel it's up to my personal standards, and if I'm going to continue with my personal projects, I want them to sound a little better.

So here's the package I've set up at B&H:

- Sound Devices 744T
- 2 Schoeps CMIT5U's for our outdoor recording
- 2 of these for indoor recording: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=WishList.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=377424&is=REG
- And my two Sennheiser 416's for the occasional humid environment it seems the Schoeps don't like.

I've thrown in a couple boom poles, shock mounts, and windscreens as well.

Is this overkill for narrative work, not enough, just right? Any help is greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...

If you are being serious I would get the 788T over the 744T as the 788 has 8 mic. pres. and the 744 only 2.

At a slightly lower cost, also consider the AETA 4MinX - this has 4 mic. pres. of superb quality (better than SD from what I hear), 6 tracks and can mix to a further two stereo tracks.

4minX_3_4.jpg

Regarding the mics. Personally I would either go for the new Sennheiser MKH 8060 (considerably better than the old 416) or go straight to the SuperCMIT and by-pass the CMIT 5U completely.

MKH_8060_ProductImage.jpg
 
Since you are talking about narrative films it should be pointed out that one HUGE difference is the audio post. You say you want better sound but what exactly do you mean by that? If what you had (gear wise) was crap that would be one thing but what you have seems like it should be able to give you some solid quality so I'm wondering is what your lacking is a real post for your films.

If you are not doing a real sound post (putting it together in FCP does not count) then you may want to focus some thought there also.

You need good production tracks but in a narrative that is really the raw material for what ends up on the screen. If your not doing the refining in post your not going to get the kind of Polish you are used to in big films.
 
Can anyone elaborate for me why it's necessary to have a CL-8 paired with your 788T? Can't the 788T be used as a stand-alone in most smaller productions?
 
Woodsy said:
Can anyone elaborate for me why it's necessary to have a CL-8 paired with your 788T? Can't the 788T be used as a stand-alone in most smaller productions?
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The only "volume" knobs on the 788T are the small trim knobs.
They are input gain, and can obviously be used but they are so small that it is difficult to use them on a regular basis.
They were designed to be used to get a rough input gain volume, then pressed in to get them out of the way. Occasionally needing
adjustments, but not to constantly mix on.
Also because they are input volume (trim) knobs you couldn't use them to create a post fader mix.

By all means you could use them in a pinch , and there is even a set up that can make the "trim" input gain "software based" and you can then use the small physical knobs
as post fader volumes but I don't think I know anyone who uses it that way.
It would kind of be like having a video camera with a software menu to control focus.

If you've ever used a Mackie style mixer. You know the trim pots at the top?
Imagine mixing a show with those, and all the problems that arise trying to.

The CL-8 does have added routing functions to make things like that quicker as well.
Also slate mic/button..etc.

Once again you COULD use the 788T by itself but a real controller is going to make life way easier.
 
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