puredrifting
Major Contributor
Good point and I agree. Just wanted to avoid having to invest yet more money into DSLRs and mirrorless when my business model is driving me more toward bigger, heavier cameras like the C300 MKII and REDs.
PilotFly H2 Gimbal
- Thread starter cseeman
- Start date
Good point and I agree. Just wanted to avoid having to invest yet more money into DSLRs and mirrorless when my business model is driving me more toward bigger, heavier cameras like the C300 MKII and REDs.
Jim Ritscher
Well-known member
Good point. On the other hand:
- if you use a camera like the Sony A 6300 ($1000), you might actually save money you would’ve paid for the larger gimbal.
- There is something to be said for having a gimbal set up, ready to go. Switching back and forth from gimbal to non-gimbal takes time
- if you use a camera like the Sony A 6300 ($1000), you might actually save money you would’ve paid for the larger gimbal.
- There is something to be said for having a gimbal set up, ready to go. Switching back and forth from gimbal to non-gimbal takes time
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Not to sidetrack this thread Jim, but I had not looked up any A6300 footage before and I was curious. Is this really how the skin tones and footage looks from it? https://vimeo.com/157319569 If it is, I would pass, this looks awful, washed out, terrible skin tones, dull lifeless, the volleyball ladies look terrible. Is there anything Canon that would have decent autofocus using my existing EOS lenses? (18-135 STM IS, 10-18 STM IS, 50mm 1.8 STM, 85mm 1.8) I don't think I can live with the Sony look, all of the FS5, FS7, A7 footage I see looks awful unless it has been professionally graded and massaged, which few of my projects have the time or money to do. Maybe the 7D MKII? Anyone know if it has decent continuous AF useful for a gimbal? 4K is not really required on most of my deliverables yet, I was at Fox yesterday with 20 executives from four teams in the room and not one mention of 4k needed or wanted on a big upcoming project. We are shooting for Netflix though and they do want 4K on some of our footage, but those shoots wouldn't really need a gimbal.
The PilotFly H2 may be able to handle a Canon DSLR which might give you a closer match to the C100.
The frustrating thing about the test footage from the H2 use I've seen online all seems to be from Sony cameras such as the A6300 or A7 series.
There's a few with Panasonic GH4 which shoots reasonable 4K if necessary (although heavily compressed).
The frustrating thing about the test footage from the H2 use I've seen online all seems to be from Sony cameras such as the A6300 or A7 series.
There's a few with Panasonic GH4 which shoots reasonable 4K if necessary (although heavily compressed).
Jim Ritscher
Well-known member
I don’t own the camera (yet), and it has its own problems, but image quality (at least in 4K) is not one of them. This looks like some kind of ungraded S log shot in a arena with 360° flat lighting.
keylight
Veteran
I've been torn between getting the H2 and the Came-TV Optimus. Finally pulled the trigger and picked the Optimus. Here's why.....
keylight
Veteran
Hmmm.... Payload! I didn't notice the H2 has a much more substantial carrying capability. I missed that somehow. I'm going to be carrying a GH4 with lens, battery, wireless lav receiver.... (I'll also carry an a6300 with assorted accessories.) Now I'm a teeny bit concerned. I think this means a quick weigh on the scale and an email to Came-TV.
I do wish the Pilotfly people would respond to email questions.
I do wish the Pilotfly people would respond to email questions.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I must be too picky these days. I was one of the first GH4 owners, bought it, used it on several projects for PBS, MEtv and Dell, I hated the skin tones, clients hated the skin tones, sold it after three months at no loss (they were still out of stock everywhere). I tried every adjustment I could, no matter what I did, all I saw was Orange/Cyan in the skin tones. Horrible. Sold all of my M43 lenses too, the sensor in the GH4 is so incredibly noisy too. I really only like the look of Canon, Arri and Panasonic pro cameras. It's weird, Panasonic broadcast cameras look great but they seemed from another planet on the GH4 color engine. Sony, GH4 skin tones just seem hideous to me while I love the skin tones from the Amira, C300 MKI and MKII and the C100 MKI. Even the C100 MKII I am not crazy about, I think my C100 MKI has better skin tones and overall color. The only Sony I have rented that I liked the look of was the F55. The mirrorless A7 variants and FS5/FS7 and FS700 cameras just look atrocious to me and I have shot several projects with each. Great features and value, the slow motion capabilities are so tempting but I just dread looking into the monitor on those cameras, it just looks "off" to my eye. I wish I wasn't so picky, I would rather buy an FS7 and be done with it but as I said, few of my projects get a real grade and I am usually not the one editing/on-lining it. My main client always has tight delivery deadlines for the studios and rarely has time to do a proper sound mix or grade, they just do a quick pass in on-line.
So yes, I guess I would probably consider a 7D MKII for the H2, it would be in the neighborhood of skin tones that work and all of my lenses would work as well. Thankfully 4K is not yet a big part of my work.
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Hey guys - I've been playing around with the H2 a bit, and a more detailed first look or review will go up on Newsshooter eventually. But I can help answer some questions if you have any.
The first thing I did was balance a Canon XC10 and it only took a few minutes (without reading the instructions or watching videos), just seemed to work really well out of the box, in all kinds of tilt positions and 360 degrees around. Then I balanced a C100 mk1 with 10-18mm on it, and it was definitely way too big. I mean, I could turn on the motors and keep it steady, but the size itself made it difficult to do any kind of pan or tilt without it physically hitting the gimbal. Also because of the height, the C100 had to be lowered so low that it was held on very insecurely. Anyway, C100 not recommended, or only as a last resort. The Letus Helix Jr. is still hands down the best C100 gimbal, in my opinion.
Canon XC10 on the other hand, brilliant on the H2, in both one handed and two handed modes. Here's a short demo of some shots with the combo: https://vimeo.com/165987600
As for the up and down motion, I think the skill of the reviewer above makes more of a difference than this gimbal or the angle of the camera as shown in the video. I'm definitely not as good or careful as that guy, and after a few tests I didn't notice a particular difference in up and down motion between the various camera positions, or between the H2 and other gimbals. You may want to check out the Nebula 4200 for something that truly combats up and down motion.
Cheers,
Slavik
The first thing I did was balance a Canon XC10 and it only took a few minutes (without reading the instructions or watching videos), just seemed to work really well out of the box, in all kinds of tilt positions and 360 degrees around. Then I balanced a C100 mk1 with 10-18mm on it, and it was definitely way too big. I mean, I could turn on the motors and keep it steady, but the size itself made it difficult to do any kind of pan or tilt without it physically hitting the gimbal. Also because of the height, the C100 had to be lowered so low that it was held on very insecurely. Anyway, C100 not recommended, or only as a last resort. The Letus Helix Jr. is still hands down the best C100 gimbal, in my opinion.
Canon XC10 on the other hand, brilliant on the H2, in both one handed and two handed modes. Here's a short demo of some shots with the combo: https://vimeo.com/165987600
As for the up and down motion, I think the skill of the reviewer above makes more of a difference than this gimbal or the angle of the camera as shown in the video. I'm definitely not as good or careful as that guy, and after a few tests I didn't notice a particular difference in up and down motion between the various camera positions, or between the H2 and other gimbals. You may want to check out the Nebula 4200 for something that truly combats up and down motion.
Cheers,
Slavik
keylight
Veteran
ARGH!!!! I'm over weight on the Optimus. I've written to Came-TV to confirm that the weight limit is just 1.1kg. So I'm looking at the H2 again. cseeman, thanks for pointing that out!
And Slavik, thanks for sharing the video link! I have a few of questions I'm hoping you can answer. How is the remote on the two handle setup attached? It looks like it might be with a detachable wire, and I'm wondering if there's a way to create an extension cable for it to run this head on a jib. Also, you mention the 360 rotation. Is that on all axis or just the one pan motor? (What might the rotation be on the tilt and roll if they aren't 360?)
Finally, have you had any experience with their support? I've sent them email but have never heard back.
And Slavik, thanks for sharing the video link! I have a few of questions I'm hoping you can answer. How is the remote on the two handle setup attached? It looks like it might be with a detachable wire, and I'm wondering if there's a way to create an extension cable for it to run this head on a jib. Also, you mention the 360 rotation. Is that on all axis or just the one pan motor? (What might the rotation be on the tilt and roll if they aren't 360?)
Finally, have you had any experience with their support? I've sent them email but have never heard back.
DPStewart
Veteran
I'm a Beholder DS1 owner - and I agree the new PilotFly H2 looks great. But it had better - for nearly 50% more money, right?
I like the increased payload a lot as my MANDATORY lenses push the limits on the DS1 and totally blow past the limits on most of the single-handle gimbals.
But a lot of the work I'm doing this year still requires a single-handled configuration so stepping up to one of the more serious gimbals is still not really an option. I'm left squeezing as much as possible from the smaller ones.
This whole entire single-handle gimbal thing is like, what? ...an hour or two old? LOL! Talk about technology moving FAST!
I'm still a big advocate of the DS1 as it has really paid off big in the types of scenarios we've been putting it in, especially for the PRICE. Once I got in the PID app and started fine tuning it for the exact camera configs I've been using it got a lot faster to work with. Also, mine gets cold. It wants me to warm it up. When I first start with it I crank the rig around all wonky in every direction just to warm up the motors, then it's happy. Weird perhaps, but I can do that in less time than it would take to put just the vest on from a steadycam rig.
I can't even begin to guess where this technology will be in the long-long-long term....you know....like 3 whole years from now.
Also - about the whole bobbing up and down from walking issue - folks need to understand that can't be removed by any gimbal, that's EXACTLY what the vest and spring arm are there for on a traditional Steadycam. Not just to make carrying the weight easier.
Speaking of which - has anyone put their single handle gimbal on a regular old vest-and-arm kit? Those can be had pretty cheap and we know it takes care of all the remaining issues like bobbing and arm fatigue.
I like the increased payload a lot as my MANDATORY lenses push the limits on the DS1 and totally blow past the limits on most of the single-handle gimbals.
But a lot of the work I'm doing this year still requires a single-handled configuration so stepping up to one of the more serious gimbals is still not really an option. I'm left squeezing as much as possible from the smaller ones.
This whole entire single-handle gimbal thing is like, what? ...an hour or two old? LOL! Talk about technology moving FAST!
I'm still a big advocate of the DS1 as it has really paid off big in the types of scenarios we've been putting it in, especially for the PRICE. Once I got in the PID app and started fine tuning it for the exact camera configs I've been using it got a lot faster to work with. Also, mine gets cold. It wants me to warm it up. When I first start with it I crank the rig around all wonky in every direction just to warm up the motors, then it's happy. Weird perhaps, but I can do that in less time than it would take to put just the vest on from a steadycam rig.
I can't even begin to guess where this technology will be in the long-long-long term....you know....like 3 whole years from now.
Also - about the whole bobbing up and down from walking issue - folks need to understand that can't be removed by any gimbal, that's EXACTLY what the vest and spring arm are there for on a traditional Steadycam. Not just to make carrying the weight easier.
Speaking of which - has anyone put their single handle gimbal on a regular old vest-and-arm kit? Those can be had pretty cheap and we know it takes care of all the remaining issues like bobbing and arm fatigue.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
I've put my N4000 on the arm of my Flycam Nano (video). It's a simple arm with no vest and no springs. It's very effective for moving the fatigue from the wrist to the biceps, which allows me to use it for a full day without too many problems (I use my other arm to help as well). It doesn't help at all with walking issue, and it actually may make controlled movements a bit more difficult (I find my "turning while walking" clearly worse than what I usually see on the internet, I think it's lack of practice but it may also be arm, since it does restrict my movements).
Just for those who need to keep payload score.
Came-TV Optimus 1.1.kg, 2.6lb
Beholder DS1 1.7kg, 3.7lb
Pilotfly H2 2.2kg, 4.85lb
I believe generally for easiest/best balance you don't want to push too close to the max. The Optimus is really limited to light mirrorless cameras with light lenses. If you want to use something with heavy glass like some EF lenses (even a Tokina 11-16mm) the Optimus is going to be tough. The H2 should comfortably handle a Canon 5D or BMPCC with Canon EF glass.
Given how fast the technology is moving, someone is going to come out with an additional axis to take care of the walking bounce. DJI has for the Osmo.
The Filmpower Nebula 4200 looks interesting but I've heard issues with build quality, very poor customer support on problem units, no official tutorials on setting up the springs which I understand must be retweaked depending on your walking/running style or it can make things worse. I'd guess another company will attempt this and it'll have encoders unlike the 4200.
Came-TV Optimus 1.1.kg, 2.6lb
Beholder DS1 1.7kg, 3.7lb
Pilotfly H2 2.2kg, 4.85lb
I believe generally for easiest/best balance you don't want to push too close to the max. The Optimus is really limited to light mirrorless cameras with light lenses. If you want to use something with heavy glass like some EF lenses (even a Tokina 11-16mm) the Optimus is going to be tough. The H2 should comfortably handle a Canon 5D or BMPCC with Canon EF glass.
Given how fast the technology is moving, someone is going to come out with an additional axis to take care of the walking bounce. DJI has for the Osmo.
The Filmpower Nebula 4200 looks interesting but I've heard issues with build quality, very poor customer support on problem units, no official tutorials on setting up the springs which I understand must be retweaked depending on your walking/running style or it can make things worse. I'd guess another company will attempt this and it'll have encoders unlike the 4200.
nyvz
Veteran
It's a lot to keep up with all these new gimbals. I've only had my DS1 for 5 months and now I'm thinking about getting an H2. The DS1 is great but I'd like the improved camera mount and higher payload and bluetooth connectivity and battery system of the H2...
So I assume the H2 works with the SimpleBGC android app if it has bluetooth? I miss that on my DS1. Also I keep seeing things about the H2 being able to do inverted mode by turning it on inverted but any idea if it can transition modes while operated? I am always impressed that my DS1 can invert while shooting (though it's a bit picky about orientation and it's not always the smoothest transition). It always impresses people who have used other gimbals when I can just invert quickly by swinging the handle.
Also I see that the H2 supports flipping the arm 180deg away from the camera's left side for flip out screens which I also like for allowing room for plugging in HDMI/sound/etc but there is mention from pilotfly that home function not working in that mode? Anyone know why? It's not because that mode disables the encoders or something is it? I just don't want to depend on that mode (I'm used to it from my DS1) and realize it is inferior in some way...
Anywhere one can buy a pilotfly H2 yet? Seems like it's all preorders.
So I assume the H2 works with the SimpleBGC android app if it has bluetooth? I miss that on my DS1. Also I keep seeing things about the H2 being able to do inverted mode by turning it on inverted but any idea if it can transition modes while operated? I am always impressed that my DS1 can invert while shooting (though it's a bit picky about orientation and it's not always the smoothest transition). It always impresses people who have used other gimbals when I can just invert quickly by swinging the handle.
Also I see that the H2 supports flipping the arm 180deg away from the camera's left side for flip out screens which I also like for allowing room for plugging in HDMI/sound/etc but there is mention from pilotfly that home function not working in that mode? Anyone know why? It's not because that mode disables the encoders or something is it? I just don't want to depend on that mode (I'm used to it from my DS1) and realize it is inferior in some way...
Anywhere one can buy a pilotfly H2 yet? Seems like it's all preorders.
nyvz
Veteran
No, but I regularly put my DS1 on a monopod and operate it as a handheld crane, I even operated it on a fully extended monopod out of a sunroof recently with nice results not totally unlike a russian arm
. I also find even with the collapsed monopod it's nice to have two hands on it since the high center of gravity of the bare gimbal is harder to stabilize with only one hand on more precise shots.The remote on the two-handle is built into one of the handles, and is attached with the wire. That's actually the weakest point of an otherwise solidly built rig, I think, in that the wires are exposed and kind of frail. I've now covered mine up with tape and leave the handles attached to the main bar, in their particular angle, rather than plugging and unplugging the wire repeatedly. Interesting thought about using an extension cable - you won't need to bother, as a bluetooth connected remote for the H2 is supposed to come out soon. The pan/tilt speed is a little fast, but I haven't plugged it in to change settings yet.
The pan is 360, and the tilt has a hard stop at 3/4 of the way around, so I guess that's 270 degrees? Although, I don't see using the tilt past 180 up at the sky or down at the ground much. Anyway with the pan, you can do a selfie mode, if you're into that, but mostly the rotation flexibility is nice for doing full moves from sky to ground or other way around, without the motors going haywire. Also in one handed mode, you can flip the entire rig so that it scrapes the ground (and feels more natural to hold), or water, etc.
No experience with their support. I've sent an email and didn't hear back either. They may be overwhelmed with customer demand right now.
A couple other things: the one handle has a built in battery, and comes with a charger. The two-handle accessory uses four Li-Ion 18650 batteries, unprotected - if you want to buy more expensive and safer protected batteries, they may not fit (they have a little extra space for the protective circuits). You do need to buy a separate charger for the batteries, I found one on Amazon for about $20. The batteries do seem to last quite a while.
Cheers,
Slavik
The pan is 360, and the tilt has a hard stop at 3/4 of the way around, so I guess that's 270 degrees? Although, I don't see using the tilt past 180 up at the sky or down at the ground much. Anyway with the pan, you can do a selfie mode, if you're into that, but mostly the rotation flexibility is nice for doing full moves from sky to ground or other way around, without the motors going haywire. Also in one handed mode, you can flip the entire rig so that it scrapes the ground (and feels more natural to hold), or water, etc.
No experience with their support. I've sent an email and didn't hear back either. They may be overwhelmed with customer demand right now.
A couple other things: the one handle has a built in battery, and comes with a charger. The two-handle accessory uses four Li-Ion 18650 batteries, unprotected - if you want to buy more expensive and safer protected batteries, they may not fit (they have a little extra space for the protective circuits). You do need to buy a separate charger for the batteries, I found one on Amazon for about $20. The batteries do seem to last quite a while.
Cheers,
Slavik
nyvz
Veteran
I am curious about battery life considering the more powerful motors... On gimbal-heavy days I could see going through at least a couple battery changes on my DS1 which uses 3x18650 batteries. So how can the H2 claim 20+hrs of life on 4x18650 batteries running more powerful motors? Even if they are top of the line batteries with higher capacity it seems a bit suspect. That worries me if the batteries are built in and not interchangeable.