Philosophizing - Model or not a "Model"?

M

mec

Member
I have to say, with the attention this camera is getting I have led myself to contemplate this phenomenon of pre-release information and more to the point, the infamous mock-up. It seems to me a fairly common occurence, a tendency in advanced capitalism where you have the fetishization of consumer products so as to create inflation whereupon the price is allowed to fluctuate (go up...). Now of course the idea is to have products that have "meaning" and associations to trigger such inflation, otherwise, no one would make any money and we would all pay what it cost to make the thing.

I thus find an event like NAB peculiar. An event where the actual functioning model is missing and the mock-up is present (the latter supercedes the actual in many ways). This of course is where the peculiar part arises, all the things you'd expect to have occur around the functioning camera are still in place, i.e., people travel to see the model, a booth of employees representing the model and loads of information standing in for the camera not being functional. The logic from above when reflected on here makes for a quite compelling and even beautiful set of circumstances for some. Inflation is happening before our eyes and we don't even care to see the actual working object! The model will do, just to see the model in person satisfies some desire, some compulsion.

What did it feel to hold that empty vessel? How satisfying was it and what expectations does one have for the actual camera now that the very real model has been witnessed, attested to?

shew, thanks
 
Definite food for thought.
I am too tired to respond to this in detail at the moment, but wanted to say thanks for the thoughts.

It's interesting subject matter.
 
Commodity fetish is inescapable. Sure you can boycott advertisements, TV and rally events such as NAB but what good does it do? Are you an owner of a DVX? Aren't you curious to see what the most-hyped model for independent filmmakers looks like? The model is an indirect way of saying "Here, this is what we are working on and this is what will be in it."

As you said, it satisfies an urge. I believe that's quite true. We want to see a physical representation of the "ultimate" camera.
 
I think the HVX pre-release hype is kind of a fun experience. Now lets just see who ever gets one if their films get any better. I can't wait.

ebola
 
Okay, some quick thoughts on this.

I think you're right in saying that the model is sometimes more important than the actual thing it represents. It gives us a small peak into the future, into what may (and will) be possible. It leaves the door open for many possibilities, and allows everyone who sees it to see the camera that they want to see, like the mirror in Harry Potter. These "non-working prototypes" are realy the Platonic Forms of camcorders. Something so perfect that we cannot show you the real Thing, only a representation of it. Finally we can see all the potential and promise that we've only heard about embodied in a physical form.

Who cares if these models are hollow? It is the promise that they embody that matters.
It's a lie agreed upon. We all know the camera isn't real yet, but we all discuss it as though it is, we all pretend... and we enjoy it. Like kids playing 'cowboys and indians' in the back yard, NAB gives us that chance. We hear great stories, and are given many promises, and we all play along because it is fun. And at the end of the week we go back to work, as though we were called back in for dinnertime.

It's like an amusement park, we all know disneyland isn't a real place but we like to play the role. That's why I've always found it fitting that NAB is in Las Vegas, which is essentially a large amusement park masquerading as a city. A place so bizarre that many people go there, stay in a hotel, and spend the bulk of their time visiting other people's hotels. A place where everything is trying to give the illussion that it is somewhere else, or something else.

Alright, I'm getting way too heady, and I'm way too tired.
Time to sleep.
 
And the internet has made it all a whole lot worse. Occasionally I hark for computerless times. I am a tech geek, I admit, so I follow the info, spooge over all the goodies people talk about even though we won't even see a real thing for months. I think another day or two and I'll just flag the forums for a month and rest.

I wonder what the proportions of "working video" geeks and "non video working" geeks are. I'm a non working geek, so I worry more about the toys than going out and shooting ;) That and my job allows me to have the browser open all the time...

Aaron
 
Isn't the term for this kind of release "vapourware"?

Well thats what we all have been ranting and raving about.
Over something that will not actually exist for another six months.
Its like going to a car show and spending endless hours on the internet writing
and speculating over a model that does not exist, and when it is released may be very different than what was showcased

Lets give this a break, open this forum back up in six months when the darn thing is actually out, and then lets really discuss what it can or cannot do. Until then....goodnight!
 
fiercecurry said:
Its like going to a car show and spending endless hours on the internet writing
and speculating over a model that does not exist, and when it is released may be very different than what was showcased

Lets give this a break, open this forum back up in six months when the darn thing is actually out, and then lets really discuss what it can or cannot do. Until then....goodnight!
Click to expand...

Actually, I quite like the idea of going to a car show and speculating over the model.

Richard Hunter
 
"What did it feel to hold that empty vessel? How satisfying was it and what expectations does one have for the actual camera now that the very real model has been witnessed, attested to?"

I can say this with some certinty having "fondled" the mock-up. It's a bit surprizing. Surprizingly big, surprizingly comfortable to hold/handle, surprizingly light (Supposedly accurate)
and surprizingly satisfing in it's layout and ergonomics. I don't think there is anything wrong with the pre-release. Bear in mind the market for these cameras is really the pros. The prosumers will buy it no doubt. But the Wedding/Corperate/Stringer/Indie/News/TV people need to make purchasing decisions based on budget projections. I for one will wait for the HVX. Especially after seeing Jan's presentation and all the attention Panisonic has paid us.
 
First off I should say that I really believe Panasonic will deliver on all the features theyve promised on this camera.

But I do find it funny that they are announcing all these features and not able as of yet to show actual footage or show the camera actually working.
 
natob2 said:
First off I should say that I really believe Panasonic will deliver on all the features theyve promised on this camera.

But I do find it funny that they are announcing all these features and not able as of yet to show actual footage or show the camera actually working.
Click to expand...

I guess before they spend the big bucks of making these cameras they get alot of feed back this way. But they could have a working model there. I'm sure they have one they've been testing!
 
Look at the source: Panasonic. Look at the 100 and 100a cameras as exceptional fulfillment of an earlier tease. If the mock-up were presented by RCA, then I'd have real reservations - but it isn't.

I like what others have said about them putting the mock-up into our hands six months prior to street - giving Panasonic a real-time means of collecting feedback from their core clientele.

Unlike and auto show concepts in the majority of instances, we actually will see the HVX200 as promised - perhaps with the minor cosmetic gripes corrected somewhat. I think demoing a model is brilliant.

e
 
To be clear, I have total faith in Panasonic, and am looking foward to this camera.
I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought this was 'vaporware' in ANY way.

I was only rambling on the reasons why I think seeing these prototypes gets me, and so many others, so excited. I think we get excited for good reason, I don't think there is anything shallow about it.
 
The human species have some very peculiar behavioral traits: curiosity, abstract reasoning (deduction, induction, generalization), greed (and fear). Collectively, those traits are capable of inducing the best and the worst in us.

Thus, the same curiosity trait that leads to scientific exploration leads to hyping up interest in a non-existent product/service.

The same generalization trait that leads to humans making valid scientific conclusions and predictions based on our incomplete knowledge of the universe also leads to stereotyping, prejudice and discrimination.

The same greed that leads to business start-ups and general improvement in the quality of life leads to corporate malfeasance and corrupt governments...

It's yin and yang, good and evil. It's only up to us what we make of it.

If you don't like commercials, change the channel. If you don't change the channel, nobody will do it for you, and the Nielsens of the world will continue to determine what kind of crap the TV channels feed into your living room.

That's my two cents.
 
Overland has it right. Look at the DVX line. Performs magnificently. Look at the Varicam. Also performs magnificently. Panasonic knows what it's doing. A marriage of the two? I have complete faith.

And yes, having held the mockup in my hands, I can tell you that it gives a tangible reality to the hype.
 
Jacking this thread...

Jacking this thread...

Check out this article in today's NYTimes on the bustling niche jeans market - here's a great example of hype and consumerism meeting to fleece folks out of their hard-earned money.

Now, how hot would my posterior look in some of those New Religions? Follow-focus or a pair and a half of Evisus... decisions, decisions.

:thumbsup:
 
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