PC Specs?

Eximious said:
Yeah, on second thought, you're right. The faster access times probably don't justify their price anymore with affordable SSD's on the horizon, unless you're working in a server environment (in which case you're using 15k SCSI anyway).
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I have a WD Raptor as my boot drive. Other than that, they all are SATA II drives with 16 / 32MB cache (even on the Mac). Disk management (keeping them unfragmented, for example) is more critical than a few extra bytes / sec. of HD speed.
 
So, I was looking at what I could do to the Dimension 4600 that I've already got lying around, and I'm not exactly clear why I shouldn't just add components to this PC. It can hold up to 4GB RAM and is at 2.8GHz -- more than enough to support, say, Adobe After Effects 4. Is it the fact that it's a Pentium 4 that makes this system "junk"? What would happen if this system was at 3GB RAM and I installed Adobe. Would it just be painfully slow, or...? THANKS GUYS!!
 
Chamber005 said:
So, I was looking at what I could do to the Dimension 4600 that I've already got lying around, and I'm not exactly clear why I shouldn't just add components to this PC. It can hold up to 4GB RAM and is at 2.8GHz -- more than enough to support, say, Adobe After Effects 4. Is it the fact that it's a Pentium 4 that makes this system "junk"? What would happen if this system was at 3GB RAM and I installed Adobe. Would it just be painfully slow, or...? THANKS GUYS!!
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It looks like the problem is in the processor count, right?

If you are starting from scratch, follow our DIY7 shopping list: Intel Core i7 processor, 6 GBs of Triple Channel RAM (3 x 2GB) , a 500+GB SATA drive and a 512+ meg ATI or nVidia based graphics card that supports dual monitors. Add in a second 500+ GB SATA drive for your storage - even better, set up a 1 TB RAID 0 striped set (2x500GB).

I was thinking about a set-up as follows with my SINGLE processor:

3GB RAM

Win XP

250GB Hard Drive @ 7200rpm

512 mb nvidia card

I guess I'm just still confused as to why we need two or four processors if we're only using one or two programs at a time.

That's why I come to these boards everyday, though -- lots 'o learnin!
 
Chamber005 said:
It looks like the problem is in the processor count, right?

If you are starting from scratch, follow our DIY7 shopping list: Intel Core i7 processor, 6 GBs of Triple Channel RAM (3 x 2GB) , a 500+GB SATA drive and a 512+ meg ATI or nVidia based graphics card that supports dual monitors. Add in a second 500+ GB SATA drive for your storage - even better, set up a 1 TB RAID 0 striped set (2x500GB).

I was thinking about a set-up as follows with my SINGLE processor:

3GB RAM

Win XP

250GB Hard Drive @ 7200rpm

512 mb nvidia card

I guess I'm just still confused as to why we need two or four processors if we're only using one or two programs at a time.

That's why I come to these boards everyday, though -- lots 'o learnin!
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The Quad / Duo Cores are single chip with 2(Duo) or 4 ( Quad) cores.

Your Dell Dimension 4600's motherboard can only take Pentium 4 Processors which are like 5 generations back. The motherboard can only take DDR RAM PC2700.

Basically your computer's motherboard is like the foundation and has limits. You can't add any of the components you mentioned from the DYI7 Article. You need a new foundation (motherboard) and start from scratch. The sockets aren't compatible with the Dell Dimension 4600.

-----------------------

Buy a new computer or build one :). Keep you dimension 4600 for web browsing / word processor.
 
Processor power is a combination of its architecture and clock frequency / multiplier. You're free to go with whatever you want, but you asked in your original post about "upgrading to" a new system, so we provided some specs.

Multiple CPU "cores" don't just help with running multiple applications. Most professional applications, like Adobe CS4 and other video editing suites, are optimized for multiple cores. Further, that Pentium 4 will be ill-suited to edit high-def content. You'd be looking at long render times and difficulties in previews. Have you tried using your Pentium 4 to edit HD content? It might be worth a try to see, with your own eyes, just how far (or not) it will take you.
 
EC Junior said:
The Quad / Duo Cores are single chip with 2(Duo) or 4 ( Quad) cores.

Your Dell Dimension 4600's motherboard can only take Pentium 4 Processors which are like 5 generations back. The motherboard can only take DDR RAM PC2700.

Basically your computer's motherboard is like the foundation and has limits. You can't add any of the components you mentioned from the DYI7 Article. You need a new foundation (motherboard) and start from scratch. The sockets aren't compatible with the Dell Dimension 4600.

-----------------------

Buy a new computer or build one :). Keep you dimension 4600 for web browsing / word processor.
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Hm.

My booklet says that it will take DDR SDRAM PC3200, but that doesn't necessarily make it a generation younger. ;)

It looks like one of the problems would be an inability to obtain a 512mb PCI graphics card with GL 2.0 (required for Adobe 4). Looks like the best graphics card you could get PCI would have GL 1.5.

As far as components not meshing with their specs, though, that's because their specs are based on quad systems, correct? That, and because this computer is a SATA 150 not 300 (or beyond)

Obviously I don't know a lot about computers, so I just want to make sure I'm utilizing everything I have to its fullest compliment. Is there anything (besides the shell) of the 4600 that I should want to use if I decide to construct a system from scratch? It seems silly to throw away all the components if I can save money re-using them.
 
Chamber005 said:
Hm.

My booklet says that it will take DDR SDRAM PC3200, but that doesn't necessarily make it a generation younger. ;)

It looks like one of the problems would be an inability to obtain a 512mb PCI graphics card with GL 2.0 (required for Adobe 4). Looks like the best graphics card you could get PCI would have GL 1.5.

As far as components not meshing with their specs, though, that's because their specs are based on quad systems, correct? That, and because this computer is a SATA 150 not 300 (or beyond)

Obviously I don't know a lot about computers, so I just want to make sure I'm utilizing everything I have to its fullest compliment. Is there anything (besides the shell) of the 4600 that I should want to use if I decide to construct a system from scratch? It seems silly to throw away all the components if I can save money re-using them.
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Usually a new generation of processor (ie. Pentium 4 to dual core to quad core) will bring a new motherboard requirement. The components on your current motherboard are only designed to fit and support a Pentium 4 processor therefore you cannot physically put any newer processor in your board, and even if you could, the components on the board would not support the needs of the processor so it would be pointless. If you are dead set on sticking with your current motherboard configuration, I would suggest upgrading your current chip with the fastest Pentium 4 (Prescott) and overclocking it, maxing out the amount of RAM the board can accomodate (should be dirt cheap) and upgrading the video card to the best the board can accomodate (might not be cheap). Even still, it will be painful rendering HD but SD shouldn't be too bad.

If you decide to start fresh then the only thing that I would reuse from your old system is potentially the Hardrive (after reformatting) depending on the specs and the monitor if it is decent.
 
HCPROD said:
Usually a new generation of processor (ie. Pentium 4 to dual core to quad core) will bring a new motherboard requirement. The components on your current motherboard are only designed to fit and support a Pentium 4 processor therefore you cannot physically put any newer processor in your board, and even if you could, the components on the board would not support the needs of the processor so it would be pointless. If you are dead set on sticking with your current motherboard configuration, I would suggest upgrading your current chip with the fastest Pentium 4 (Prescott) and overclocking it, maxing out the amount of RAM the board can accomodate (should be dirt cheap) and upgrading the video card to the best the board can accomodate (might not be cheap). Even still, it will be painful rendering HD but SD shouldn't be too bad.

If you decide to start fresh then the only thing that I would reuse from your old system is potentially the Hardrive (after reformatting) depending on the specs and the monitor if it is decent.
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:::SIGH:::

Yeah, I finally talked to my dad (recovering tech addict) about my situation and after telling me that I should go buy a Mac if I'm just doing video editing, he said that if I was dead set on staying with a PC for video then I should indeed trash the 4600. He said the 512MB of hard drive probably isn't even worth keeping.

Totally blows. The more I looked into this computer the more I wanted to find a way to save it and turn it into something usable...

I've got ONE more option before going out to buy a new computer. It's possible that I could format the 4600 to be my work/browsing desktop and instead upgrade my EMachines D3415 (what I'm on right now).

We didn't discuss AMD at all, so I'm not sure where this one fits in. I know it's better than the 4600 -- just not sure how much better:

http://www.epinions.com/specs/eMach...VD_Rom_CD_RW_Flash_Media_Reader_NV_PC_Desktop

Anyway I could turn this one into a capable video editing machine?

THANKS!!!
 
Chamber005 said:
:::SIGH:::

Yeah, I finally talked to my dad (recovering tech addict) about my situation and after telling me that I should go buy a Mac if I'm just doing video editing, he said that if I was dead set on staying with a PC for video then I should indeed trash the 4600. He said the 512MB of hard drive probably isn't even worth keeping.

Totally blows. The more I looked into this computer the more I wanted to find a way to save it and turn it into something usable...

I've got ONE more option before going out to buy a new computer. It's possible that I could format the 4600 to be my work/browsing desktop and instead upgrade my EMachines D3415 (what I'm on right now).

We didn't discuss AMD at all, so I'm not sure where this one fits in. I know it's better than the 4600 -- just not sure how much better:

http://www.epinions.com/specs/eMach...VD_Rom_CD_RW_Flash_Media_Reader_NV_PC_Desktop

Anyway I could turn this one into a capable video editing machine?

THANKS!!!
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Frick! The AMD is a Sempron. I think that kills any chance it has, right?
 
Chamber005 said:
Frick! The AMD is a Sempron. I think that kills any chance it has, right?
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Yeah pretty much...your not going to have any better luck with that system. Being an Emachine doesn't help either (bad memories!). You will be much better off and much happier in the end if you build a system. If you dig through the threads you can find that some folks have built some pretty formidable machines for a lot less than they used to cost. Intel's quad core and i7 offerings are excellent for video editing.
 
Chamber005 said:
Frick! The AMD is a Sempron. I think that kills any chance it has, right?
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Right.

So now I'm looking at getting either an AMD or an Intel...

I've heard that AMDs are a little longer-lasting (not that it matters as five year old tech is prehistoric) but that Intels are faster.

Any last bit of advice on this?

(to be honest, other than by the price, I can't tell what AMDs and Intels are better than the other. Is there a list somewhere that shows the strengths and weaknesses of different processor/chips AMD and Intel?)
 
Chamber005 said:
Right.

So now I'm looking at getting either an AMD or an Intel...

I've heard that AMDs are a little longer-lasting (not that it matters as five year old tech is prehistoric) but that Intels are faster.

Any last bit of advice on this?

(to be honest, other than by the price, I can't tell what AMDs and Intels are better than the other. Is there a list somewhere that shows the strengths and weaknesses of different processor/chips AMD and Intel?)
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To be really honest with you I have had several systems with both types of chips and with several of them I was very disappointed in both the performance and the life cycle of the AMD. I have had reliablity issues with the AMD chips while I still have an old Intel box (I think 333mhz!) that is still going (slowly). In my opinion Intel is the way to go, especially for a high horsepower video editing machine.
 
I will seriously advise you not to get into making a high-end machine (as your 1st machine). Your knowledge seems to be very limited.

Putting the hardware together is the easy part. You have to mess with the Bios and OS and drivers and who knows what else and that can become a serious pain at times.

There was a time when you could save a bundle by making your own system. Not any more (sometimes it is more expensive). There are dozens of (pre-made) systems in $600 - $1,000 range that will more than meet your needs.

Learning is always good, so keep asking questions.

About your old system? I have much more powerful systems sitting in the garage. $50 and you can have them (so to speak). So, don't waste your energy on the old one.
 
A few months ago I would have suggested going with the last gen quad cores because everything but the processor itself was much cheaper than the i7 parts. But now i7 ddr3 memory plummeted in price and the motherboards are also dropping in price so now the money you have to shell out for an i7 system is only at most a few hundred more than say a q9550 on a p45 motherboard. And at that small price difference the jump to i7 is definitely worth it.
 
Alexg said:
A few months ago I would have suggested going with the last gen quad cores because everything but the processor itself was much cheaper than the i7 parts. But now i7 ddr3 memory plummeted in price and the motherboards are also dropping in price so now the money you have to shell out for an i7 system is only at most a few hundred more than say a q9550 on a p45 motherboard. And at that small price difference the jump to i7 is definitely worth it.
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I know right!? DDR3 is cheaper too. Intel is hurting from the recession so purchasing the latest processors won't be as expensive as it would normally. In the computer world, your current new* computer will be outdated in 6 months. Computer technology really flies!
 
So since I'm not particularly tech-savvy should I even attempt to piecemeal together a system?

I thought if I spent 6 months building a computer it might be a fun learning experience. However, I certainly don't want to drop a 1000 bucks on parts just to have them end up getting fried once they're together!

My dad used to go to this place called Tiger Direct (not even sure if they're still around) for a lot of parts. They would sort of guide you while you pieced together a computer system.

I guess the danger in getting to invested in constructing a computer is that it's then that much more time you're spending doing something else besides filming or writing, right?

You guys have been super helpful. Hopefully I'll be able to make an informed decision when purchasing my...quad core system?

Now I have to go look at monitors!!!!

(although my girl already agreed that someday I get to bring our Pioneer 43" into my office and use it as a monitor! Ha! Not until the Elite comes down in price, though -- like 2 years from now down in price!)
 
If you're going to order the parts online I suggest Newegg but Tigerdirect is still around and still pretty good (although I personally haven't ordered anything from them in years). It's really not complicated to put together the system yourself. Just be sure you order EVERYTHING you need. Nothing worse than getting in your parts and you later realize that you don't have x or y. Anyway actually putting it together is fairly self explanatory. The only tricky things would be installing a custom cpu cooler and overclocking. I would recommend overclocking the i7 because it's easy and makes the cheapest i7 almost equal to the most expensive i7. If you've never done it before hopefully you have a friend that knows how or you can read up on it thoroughly. And don't skimp on anything especially the power supply. Read lots of reviews and don't buy the cheapo brands. Also buy good thermal paste and read up on how to apply it properly.

Finally if you think it's too much for you then there are a few decent pre-built deals around. You will be paying a premium though (on the other hand they usually come with an OS and a pretty good warranty). You'll probably want to buy a pre-built i7 with a lesser graphics card and hard drives and replace them yourself because that's where they usually gouge you. Just be sure they are using a good motherboard and it has all the inputs you need.
 
I would reccommend somthing like this:

Dell Studio XPS: $919

e-Value code: ref-DXPCZR1

Processors:
Intel® Core™i7-920 Processor(8MB L2 Cache, 2.66GHz) MI7920 1 [311-9770] 2


Hardware Support Services:
1Yr Ltd Hardware Warranty, InHome Service after Remote Diagnosis S111OS 1 [412-0360][960-8700][988-7347][990-8029][991-7130][992-9687] 29


Operating System:
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1, 64-Bit VHP61E 1 [330-2980][420-6436][420-7938][420-8873][420-8874][421-0084][421-0323][421-0427][421-0530][463-2282] 11


Office Productivity Software (Pre-Installed):
Microsoft Works 9 XWRK9 1 [420-8103] 22


Memory:
4GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1066MHz - 4 DIMMs 4G1064D 1 [311-9799] 3


Hard Drives:
500GB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache 500S 1 [341-8294] 8


Optical Drives:
Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability 16DVDRW 1 [313-7182][420-8152] 16


Monitor:
No Monitor N 1 [320-7706] 5


Video Card:
ATI Radeon HD 4670 512MB AT4670 1 [320-7771] 6


Sound Card:
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio IS 1 [313-7186] 17


Speaker:
No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system) N 1 [313-4514] 18


Keyboard:
Dell USB Consumer Multimedia Keyboard MMK 1 [330-0915] 4


Mouse:
Dell Premium Laser Mouse 6BTNLM 1 [330-1158] 12


Floppy Drive or Media Card Reader:
No Floppy Drive or Media Reader Included NFD 1 [341-8496] 10


Network Card:
Integrated 10/1000 Ethernet IE 1 [430-3347] 13
 
Get the best system you can afford right now and don't look back. Tech is advancing too fast to try and keep on top of it unless you are willing to dump loads of money into it. Like was said before, your system WILL BE "outdated" in 6 months.

That said, I have edited EX1 1080p footage on Vegas running on a P4(!) 2.8gHz with a gig of ram from back in 2004ish. You can get by with a lot less then a top of the line i7 CPU.
 
Definitely but I think with the proliferation of avc I think more people are going to be needing better processors. I think even an overclocked q6600 would be fine for that but of course a small premium and you can have a brand new system (also important to remember is that i7 processors and motherboards use brand new sockets so if you buy a last gen cpu and motherboard you will have to buy a whole new system in the future if you want to upgrade). Again though that's not a huge deal because the technology is spriting along so fast. Intel is going to be releasing their 6 core 32nm cpus next year. If these things get any smaller they're gonna have to build nanobots to create them.
 
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