Panel vs point source LED + modifier

Q

Quested

Member
Hi guys,
I've been using Apertures and Hives for the last couple of months andam finding less and less of a reason to break out my heavy 2x1 panels. For a key I just throw them in a brolly or an octa, and for background fill I can use a pair of strips or even a reflector > bounce > silk.

Do you think we'll see point source lights start to take over like they have in flash photography? As the power comes up they just provide more flexibility in shaping while having a much easier form factor to raise up high or boom.

I'm looking at the new ETC panels at the moment but also the 600D and even the Hive 575, so much new stuff out there.

I understand things like Astras for quick interview keys but something like a Skypanel... I just don't know what I'd use it for these days.
 
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Personally I feel like the main usefulness of panels now is if you need a low-profile source. If you want to build a soft light with no space to build one, it could be the thing. Or a lite mat.

But otherwise I totally agree
 
I think panels are some what over - at the moment - with the cost of 200-300w Bowen style that can be softened with anything from a $20 Brolly up.

Big lite mats- not that I can afford them - have relevance as they can be stuck on walls or ceilings in very confined spaces
 
As I read this I’m packing a for a gig and taking 2 panels and a godox
Plan 2panels key through a 6.4 lasto and Godox fills the space bashed off the roof or wall.
I’m leaving my fresnels at home

Panels not totally dead!
 
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Since I now have five Godox COB lights, I have not reached for my panel lights once. Lit a setup last night
with all five with parabolic softboxes on each, two hosts distancing, flanking a 70" monitor and another talent
on an adjacent stage with their own monitor. All of this is at an LA TV station and I didn't like their flat/ugly soap opera/news lighting
so I turned it all off and lit the sets myself using all of my COB lights and it looks so much better.

I'm pretty much done with my LED panels. It's so nice to be able to take one of my COB lights and take the softbox off, put the barndoors
or a fresnel or Leko and paint with it with slashes, patterns, snoots. Panels are just a one trick pony, COBs are almost as good as real fresnels
like my Arris, although not quite.
 
morgan_moore said:
I think panels are some what over - at the moment - with the cost of 200-300w Bowen style that can be softened with anything from a $20 Brolly up.

Big lite mats- not that I can afford them - have relevance as they can be stuck on walls or ceilings in very confined spaces
Click to expand...

Brolly = umbrella?
 
Right, it doesn't take much lolly to buy yourself a brolly. Just toss it in your trolley
 
I use my flex panels most of the time, my VL300 and 300D don't get too much use.
For interiors with no windows, sometimes I'm at 1% on my panels depending on the location.
Also hard to argue with bi-color and not having to gel. Gel lowers CRI significantly too.
I'm finding I'm at 3200K more often than I'd like working with house lights.

COBs are great for daylight but you can't get the flexibility of something like the P300 / skypanels out of them yet.
(Not that I can justify owning those right now)

That being said, y'all probably getting paid way more than I am.
 
It's hard enough for us Brits to convert measurements and money into things the American members understand, plus we have to say 'tube' and 'ground' quite often too, so 'brolley' is understandable - even though my US browser wants to change it to trolley anyway. I think I may spend a week posting in real English once I've gone down the apples and pears and got off the rag and bone.

I've only got into bi-colour recently but have to report the slightly lower brightness limits me a bit. I'm quite content now working at 5500K or so 100% LED. I tried to mix tungsten and LED at first, but it never worked that well. One thing I do know is that Fresnel microgroove lens are not a patch on an old fashioned Fresnel of the Arri style. My 650W and 1K Arris are by far the nicest 'quality' light. All the different LEDs are somewhat bland by comparison.
 
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The only problem I have at the moment is that the goldilocks COB doesn't exist yet. I like that my creamsauce micro is weatherproof / RGB / internal ballast (although the ballast has pros and cons - id like an option)

Godox and Aperture lights are great but don't feel as nice as the mid to high end panels, they are much cheaper of course.

Most point source stuff isn't RGB and I do music videos enough that I want it. Gels are great but DMX on that high key is better.

The Arri Orbiter is great on paper but heavier than a panel, has low output and is expensive. It'll be a success but personally I think its a miss by Arri. The closest thing to perfect for me is the hives but I'm not sure about their longevity, although I have no basis for this except holding one for 5 minutes - happy to be proven wrong. They also can't be used in any weather and I find the ballast / battery setup a bit finicky.

I'm also a big believer in support and warranty; Creamsauce (5 years), ETC (5/10 years) and Arri lead the pack here. I trust Creamsauce and ETC they have absolutely been through the ringer with me. Arri is Arri.

It's really nice to pack softboxes, umbrellas, domes etc and have a million options. I do a fair bit of beauty as well so "bash some light through a silk" isn't good enough these days.

Has anyone used the ETC panels? I can't rent them in Australia but all their color tech has me intrigued. I love Source4's and have been asking them to do a COB for years.
 
I think there might be a split between interviews and pop videos!

RGB panels programmed to DMX are super cool for misic vids (and other performances) particularly where the location is dark (until lit)

A bunch of us corporate bores just want enough daylight to do an interview with the window exposed good.

I know a chap who is big in the Disco scene (https://www.re-production.co.uk/) so when Ive been asked for flashing colours I got him in.. keeping my personal buy in the 55k bright as I can range.. which is currently run by COB/bowens
 
I like panels and mats for their ease of use.

Just put it up and it is ready. Throw a small soft box cover on it if you need, or maybe a d eggcrate to control the spill.


If the made really high output panels, i’d love those. Would be so easy to push through diffusion and get a nice even source. But i’m assuming the cooling vents would be quite large. So it may be the reason for lack of interest at this time.


But just look at the use of lite mats in “Phantom Thread” bts. Awesome way to get a cool light in close for shaping.
 
Which are the decent “single unit” COBs currently available? My biggest gripe with many COBs is the resulting wire-and-ballast salad that you have to rig up every time they’re deployed. Something as simple as arri fresnels or the old Lowel fixtures to transport and deploy, for instance.

I have an Intellytech F-165 that’s kind of my ideal (fixture with one power con out), but it’s a tad huge and a couple generations of tech old. I keep falling back on the Astras and Superpanels out of simple time expediency.
 
mcbob said:
Which are the decent “single unit” COBs currently available? My biggest gripe with many COBs is the resulting wire-and-ballast salad that you have to rig up every time they’re deployed.
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The problem is fan noise, no? I think most powerful COBs move the ballast to the exterior to spread out the heat and lower the fan noise, especially in the head since you can get the ballast further away. So I doubt you'll get something super powerful with integrated ballast.

My knowledge is limited, but I know and like the Godox SL-200 (200w), which is the most powerful COB I know of with integrated ballast: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...200w_5600k_200w_white.html/specs?sts=pi&pim=Y

It has some drawbacks. Apparently, there is a version 2: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1559564-REG/godox_sl200w_ii_led_video.html?sts=pi&pim=Y
 
ahalpert said:
The problem is fan noise, no? I think most powerful COBs move the ballast to the exterior to spread out the heat and lower the fan noise, especially in the head since you can get the ballast further away. So I doubt you'll get something super powerful with integrated ballast.

My knowledge is limited, but I know and like the Godox SL-200 (200w), which is the most powerful COB I know of with integrated ballast: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...200w_5600k_200w_white.html/specs?sts=pi&pim=Y

It has some drawbacks. Apparently, there is a version 2: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1559564-REG/godox_sl200w_ii_led_video.html?sts=pi&pim=Y
Click to expand...

You can get an integrated ballast, but at a cost....

https://microsites.arri.com/orbiter/

Mentions integrated ballast if you don't want to scour the micro site:
https://youtu.be/C9B33tTDA2c?t=248


At a first glance, the Arri Orbiter looks like a miss, but in use, and in person, it ends up making a lot of sense. Like the Sky panels. Sky panels seemed like a miss at first, but they changed the industry. At least until the Gemini and other variants were able to compete at a lower cost. However, by that time, the Skypanel had already, no pun intended, saturated their own market.
 
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I didn't go with panels as I find their use to be limiting, although in tight quarters might be a better solution than some.

I went with Hive Lighting's Wasp 100-C which are bicolor and omni-color, for a point light source I've found them to be versatile. They are compact and can be A/C or battery powered.

One caveat I have is that power output is not fantastic in a softbox but works OK when placed close to the subject, placing a softbox close is best for softlight anyway (at ISO 800, 24 fps, 2M distance, in a 16x16 SB with front diffuser and internal baffle I get f/2.8, F/3.2 with front diffuser only). I plan to eventually add a few of their Hornet 200-C units that have greater output and maybe the new Super Hornet 575.

They are not cheap but in my case my studio photography lighting gear was Profoto based and the Hive's are compatible with Profoto accessories so this was one determining factor in their purchase. There are adapters available to use Elinchrom or Bowens mount accessories so you can pretty much configure these lights for whatever you need.

Of course there are much less expensive point light sources available, especially if you don't need bicolor or omni-color/RGB features. And I think that the larger more powerful panel lights are a bit on the pricey side, especially with their limited use.
 
James0b57 said:
You can get an integrated ballast, but at a cost....

https://microsites.arri.com/orbiter/

Mentions integrated ballast if you don't want to scour the micro site:
https://youtu.be/C9B33tTDA2c?t=248


At a first glance, the Arri Orbiter looks like a miss, but in use, and in person, it ends up making a lot of sense. Like the Sky panels. Sky panels seemed like a miss at first, but they changed the industry. At least until the Gemini and other variants were able to compete at a lower cost. However, by that time, the Skypanel had already, no pun intended, saturated their own market.
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I've used the Orbiter twice now and I love what it can do but man the output is just so low for the cost/weight. Less that half a stop more than a 300D at full blast. The Creamsource Vortex8 puts out close to twice the light for the same weight. God I wish they made a COB.
 
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Quested said:
I've used the Orbiter twice now and I love what it can do but man the output is just so low for the cost/weight. Less that half a stop more than a 300D at full blast. The Creamsource Vortex8 puts out close to twice the light for the same weight.
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Yeah, skypanels were underpowered for the cost/weight/output ratio as well.


They’re definitely: if money is no object sort of lights.

The benefit of the orbiter is no ballast, and supposedly it makes output gains when coloured vs a white LED getting gelled.

So, that 300watt outptu is pretty great in that regard.


Then for real power, jump over to HMI or white COB.

But yeah, definitely not an owner op sort of lamp, unless your name is Eric.
 
There is room for both and both have their places. I have probably 16 panel or "cloth" LED lights, six multi-point "hard light" fixtures, nine de-facto point source LED's, 10 tube/wand(linear) LED's and eight LED's that I'm not 100% sure on how to classify, even though I think they only have one emitter, because I can see multiple shadows sometimes. I also have a 600d Pro on order, so I'll have one more point source LED, soon(maybe two, If I really like it).

Bi-color is VERY useful. Almost a necessity, in my opinion(at least for me). Omni is great(20 of my LED's are), but not as much of a necessity as Bi. I have few single colors temp LED's, but I'm OK with the 600d being daylight only, for the power, because I'm intending it to be an HMI supplement/replacement. And HMI's are "daylight" only.
 
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