Panasonic 4K GH4 possibly coming next Spring...

[stoneinapond]

Yes, different divisions, and this is coming from the stills division. It's a GH__, same as it's predecessors, and is first and foremost a stills camera. Though it does look as if the video side has made some huge improvements. But.... ergonomically, it is first and foremost a stills camera and that shouldn't be a surprise to anybody.

That is not entirely correct. The GH4 is a hybrid camera through and through and what has been done with the video side makes it very much a video camera if that's how you want to approach it. Indeed, with the adapter you have the equivalent of a 4K AF200 (sans ND filters).

I seem to remember talk of moving (or absorbing) future GH cameras into the professional division and this seems to bear that out. I'm sure it will be displayed at NAB alongside their other offerings.

 

[Shenan]

Thanks, harddrive, for the insightful observations.

 

[roxics]

Would rationalise the video division behind s35, the stills division behind 4/3. Would mean an entry point true VIDEO camera at s35 to encourage people to get lenses, and a migration path to the Varicam.

But wouldn't it be great if all of Panasonic's cameras were m43 and they just started building some pro glass for the system like cine lenses and power zoom video lenses? I don't see why they would want to divide their lenses up even more by introducing an S35 mount camera unless it was PL mount.

 

[Shenan]

More pictures of the add-on box, with ports visible and more specs: http://www.43rumors.com/gh4-with-the-monstrous-interface-unit/
Also already on the Panasonic website: http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/DMW-YAGH

 

[harddrive]

That is not entirely correct. The GH4 is a hybrid camera through and through and what has been done with the video side makes it very much a video camera if that's how you want to approach it.

Well, I did say "it does look as if the video side has made some huge improvements", and I doubt anyone will disagree with that, but thinking especially from the operational point of view it doesn't seem anything like as satisfactory as any true video camera, and the NDs (or lack of) would be only one manifestation of that. What about true manual iris, for just one example? Zebras? Lenses with servo zooms?

Don't get me wrong, I am pretty impressed by what's been shown so far - but first and foremost I see a still camera. I'm sure many people will find it can also be used for very satisfactory video.

 

[John Caballero]

Yes, different divisions, and this is coming from the stills division. It's a GH__, same as it's predecessors, and is first and foremost a stills camera.

99% of the people that buy a GH do not do it for the stills. They do it for the video, especially after the GH2 got hacked with such great results. If somebody wants an inexpensive camera for great stills with video capabilities they buy a Nikon 5300 or 3300. Also people keep complaining about the camera body not being a video camera body, what about the Black Magic big cameras resembling an alarm clock with no ergonomics to talk about. The GH cameras are fantastic video cameras first and foremost.

 

[Tzedekh]

More pictures of the add-on box, with ports visible and more specs: http://www.43rumors.com/gh4-with-the-monstrous-interface-unit/
Also already on the Panasonic website: http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/DMW-YAGH

The picture can't be right. The specs clearly state it has one 3G-SDI port, not four HD-SDI.

Also: "3G-SDI terminal: 4K2K (YUV = 4:2:2/10bit) video output." If true, this is good news (of course, 12-bit raw would be better). Now, if there were only a cheap 4K2K recorder (you listening, Blackmagic Design?).

 

[Simon Shasha]

It says:

3G – SDI terminal
4K2K (YUV = 4:2:2/10bit) video output
FHD (YUV = 4:2:2/10bit) video output

We should be able to use something like a HyperDeck Shuttle 2 to record the 10bit, correct?

 

[Shenan]

I would trust the pictures more than the written (copied/typo'd/misunderstood) specs. "Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see."

 

[Simon Shasha]

Panasonic should re-release and re-house all their current mFT lenses with aperture and focus-ring gears.

 

[harddrive]

But wouldn't it be great if all of Panasonic's cameras were m43 and they just started building some pro glass for the system like cine lenses and power zoom video lenses? I don't see why they would want to divide their lenses up even more by introducing an S35 mount camera unless it was PL mount.

It depends where you're starting from. For somebody already invested into video with 4/3, the answer would have to be yes.

But from Panasonics point of view (video division), then no. To compete against the likes of Red, Canon, Sony, any camera at the top end *MUST* be s35 to be taken seriously. Accept that, and it must follow that their high end will be s35, the cheaper end will be 4/3? And the pre-announcements of the s35 Varicam show that's the way they must be now thinking at the top end, the GH4 at the lower end.

So the question is where the line gets drawn, and I suspect this is causing Panasonic (video) quite some anguish. It's my personal speculation, but I think it will end up with all the cameras from the video division being s35, and all from the GH_ division being 4/3. As backing, then I give again my point about already having the Varicam sensor makes it much more viable to now start developing a lower price cut-down s35 range. Plus the much improved video features of the GH4 to try to satisfy "AF200" hungry 4/3 users for now.

 

[Bassman2003]

Is it me or is that much firepower for a still camera a little too far in one direction? I do think it is great for those that will buy this camera and need to use all of the connections. Yes, no brainer. But I also see this as everything on a pro camera without being a pro camera. My first thought is about the audio preamps in a still camera. Yes they can be useful but are they to the level of a pro camera? I know, I know, we are just happy to have XLRs but if consumers are 99% of sales so to speak then this is crazy. Just make a real video design and make it for its intended market... Hopefully Panasonic will follow suit with this thinking at NAB this year. I can not see why a 4K Varicam and an AF-200 can't be made at the same time. They sell to different markets.

I thought we were moving on a little from the DSLR form factor.

 

[TheDingo]

My first thought is about the audio preamps in a still camera. Yes they can be useful but are they to the level of a pro camera?

There is no way Panasonic is going to sell this GH4 Audio-Video base if the audio it records is not high quality. So I would not worry about audio performance.

From tests I've run on my GH3, the GH3 audio is on par with my HMC-150 camera provided you use external pre-amps to feed the signal. ( uncompressed PCM audio with a noise-floor of -63 dB RMS or better )

 

[GrahamH]

@harddrive: there are plenty of lens options for this camera if you want "true manual iris" ... is your issue that you want that plus AF as well?

 

[pulpfiction007]

This is what I wanted to know - I'd take 4:2:2 to cards for sure

 

[Bassman2003]

There is no way Panasonic is going to sell this GH4 Audio-Video base if the audio it records is not high quality. So I would not worry about audio performance.

From tests I've run on my GH3, the GH3 audio is on par with my HMC-150 camera provided you use external pre-amps to feed the signal. ( uncompressed PCM audio with a noise-floor of -63 dB RMS or better )

This is kind of my point. If you need to use external preamps, the internal preamps must be sub-par. Many would like to plug a mic directly into the camera. Line level does not tax preamps as much imho.

 

[prio]

"4K2K (YUV = 4:2:2/10bit) video output"
yes!

 

[TheDingo]

This is kind of my point. If you need to use external preamps, the internal preamps must be sub-par.

All DSLR / Mirrorless cameras have crappy preamps, so you need an external adapter to record high quality sound.

I expect the GH4 will have better sound than the GH3, but you are still going to have to feed it a strong signal ( -20 dB seems optimal from my GH3 tests ) from an external audio device ( the new GH4 AV Base would fall into that category ) to record high quality audio.

I know for myself, I will buy the GH4 AV Base and probably leave it bolted to the bottom of the GH4 body unless I'm shooting still photos, and I'm OK with that.

 

[harddrive]

I can not see why a 4K Varicam and an AF-200 can't be made at the same time. They sell to different markets.

Basically, the video division of Panasonic (unlike the stills division) got it wrong. They made a strategic blunder, and completely misread the way the market was heading until very late - hence the announcement of the s35 Varicam "to be prioritised".

I strongly suspect the Olympics focussed the minds of Panasonic, certainly at the top. Panasonic has been one of the major Olympic sponsors for a number of years - think the company as a whole, not just cameras or electronics. But it's involvement was due to end in 2016, and they were desperately keen to at least extend it until 2020, when the games come to Tokyo. Unfortunately, at Sochi, nearly all the coverage is being provided by Sony cameras (see http://www.tvbeurope.com/main-content/full/the-downhill-run-to-sochi#.UvQXFk3iucw , and http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/nbc-uses-sony-gear-to-cover-winter-olympics-/223493 , for example) and that includes all the live 4K coverage, mostly being shown in cinema type venues.

Within Panasonic video I suspect this has focussed minds well, and putting all resources into developing the 4K Varicam has at least meant they are allowed to say they will "record the Opening Ceremony to be held in the Olympic Park in 4K with the cooperation of the IOC and OBS". (See http://www.redsharknews.com/technology/item/1427-panasonic’s-4k-kit-ready-for-use ) Even if the Varicam does get used to record the opening ceremony, then I believe it will have to be for later editing - all the live streamed 4K at Sochi will be with Sony cameras.

But - looking forward, whilst they may have got it wrong in the past, I think they have now seen the light and are finally moving forward in the right direction - I hope so. But if you accept the above, then to answer the original question, I think they've had their hands full just with developing the Varicam during the last year, and that answers why you're not seeing the Varicam and a "AF200" at the same time. But I also find it likely that much of the work may be able to be carried over to a s35 AF200, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see such at NAB2015.

 

[snowblindfilm]

All DSLR / Mirrorless cameras have crappy preamps, so you need an external adapter to record high quality sound.

I expect the GH4 will have better sound than the GH3, but you are still going to have to feed it a strong signal ( -20 dB seems optimal from my GH3 tests ) from an external audio device ( the new GH4 AV Base would fall into that category ) to record high quality audio.

I know for myself, I will buy the GH4 AV Base and probably leave it bolted to the bottom of the GH4 body unless I'm shooting still photos, and I'm OK with that.

GH3 lack connectors, period. HD-SDI, XLR- at least these two. Plus it lacks ND's- MFT sensor is just fine, so if they shoved updated sensor into AF100 body, with a 10bit codec recorded on microP2, it would make the camera sell like hotcakes. I don't really want to deal with RAW, for 95% ProRes HQ is more then enough. So I could rent RAW capable camera if needed. Also MFT sensor is much easier on critical focus for a single operator, if you don't have a decent focus puller handy. Nowadays out of cocus crap on vimeo is so wide spread, I turn any film off if I see pointless focus hunting.