Panasonic 4K GH4 possibly coming next Spring...

Benjobe said:
I see four HD-SDI outputs, I assume for the 4K 10-bit. I don't think that the Atomos Samurai Blade handles that many SDI. What would, the Odyssey?
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I found the answer to my question. Apparently only the Aja Ki Pro Quad ($4000) can record 4K from four HD-SDI inputs right now. But the Convergent Design Odessey 7Q ($2300) has the potential to with a firmware update. Hopefully interest in this camera will encourage them to update it as I'd much prefer the Odessey to the to Ki Pro.
 
I would love to see someone like Bloom do a full report of the capabilities in a real world scenario. Right now, there are specs and incomplete reports...and a lot of errors in reporting the specs. I saw one web site saying that the HDMI was 8 bit 4:2:2 (and that to get 10 bit one would need the brick) which is incorrect. The HDMI out is user switchable.
 
pulpfiction007 said:
I would love to see someone like Bloom do a full report of the capabilities in a real world scenario. Right now, there are specs and incomplete reports...and a lot of errors in reporting the specs. ...
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I hope Barry Green or Adam Wilt are able to do a thorough technical review of the GH4 ASAP. Their work is usually far more accurate and useful (to me at least) than random "real world" scenarios. Just my $0.02 US.

Plus it'll give me something to read while I wait for my BMPC-4K to show up … :-)
 
No one said that recently, but I've heard it said previously that Panasonic would not offer a follow up to the AF100. Hopefully that's not true.
 
Why would a dslr be a replacement for a proper camcorder? I honestly don't think their made by the same division, I could be wrong, but my assumption is the AF100 was from Panasonics pro division, while the GHx series is from the consumer division.
 
Does the GH4 output 4K over the micro-HDMI port? When the camera is set to record in 4K internally the onboard HDMI output is down-converted automatically to 1080p. In playback mode the HDMI output is 4K capable (relaying the 8bit 4:2:0 footage from SD card). Only the DMW-YAGH add-on base can output 4K (uncompressed, 10bit 4:2:2) from the GH4. However the micro-HDMI port is 8bit / 10bit switchable and can deliver impressive 1080p in 10bit 4:2:2 format, uncompressed to an external recorder.
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http://www.eoshd.com/content/12070/panasonic-gh4-professional-setting-faq
 
Benjobe said:
I found the answer to my question. Apparently only the Aja Ki Pro Quad ($4000) can record 4K from four HD-SDI inputs right now. But the Convergent Design Odessey 7Q ($2300) has the potential to with a firmware update. Hopefully interest in this camera will encourage them to update it as I'd much prefer the Odessey to the to Ki Pro.
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My understanding is that two of the SDI ports are 3G-SDI. Maybe they'll do for 4K.
 
filmguy123 said:
So is this basically going to be the successor to the AF100? Does this mean we will never get this with built in ND filters? :(
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I think that's the $64,000 question for Panasonic - will they give up on the indie film market, a market they once completely owned, or will they fight to regain that dominance? 'Cause while I know some people have really embraced the GH- series of cameras, I'm guessing a majority of pro shooters simply will not look at a system based on a MFT stills camera, regardless of add-ons or resolution.

Personally, other than for a B cam/crash camera, I'd rather do my own dental work than use any DSLR as a proper video camera given a choice.

I've always loved the form of the AF100. It just makes sense. I'd love for Panny to use at least some of this new tech in an AF200; to have true 1080 4:2:2 internal recording and maybe 2K too. But that MFT decision made 3-4 years ago seems to have bit Panny in the butt - virtually all decent budget films and shorts use S35 or larger sensors it seems. Maybe this new GH4 plus the metabones adapter will sway the market, but how confident is Panny in the MFT format? Maybe more importantly, does Panny have any interest in a lower budget film making outside of the GH- series of cameras?

I haven't heard/read any rumors of an AF 200 being announced at NAB, but I'll still be a bit sad if Panasonic doesn't have some budget level video camera available.
 
There is absolutely nothing wrong with MFT sensor size, and judging by the popularity of BM Pocket, S35 is not a must for budget film makers. Where AF100 falls short is IQ, not a sensor size. Also huge advantage of MFT mount is ability to mount virtually any lens, including a true PL cine glass.
 
snowblindfilm said:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with MFT sensor size, and judging by the popularity of BM Pocket, S35 is not a must for budget film makers. Where AF100 falls short is IQ, not a sensor size. Also huge advantage of MFT mount is ability to mount virtually any lens, including a true PL cine glass.
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Not just MFT mount, ANY mount with a shallow flange. Sony E mount can also mount virtually any lens.
I think one of the questions is not is MFT usable, because it obviously is, but are they working
'under a handicap' by staying at the MFT size? Obviously, anyone who has invested in the format does
not want it to go away! But doesn't a smaller sensor limit either your dynamic range or resolution
as compared to a larger chip? In other words, you can have the same number of 'photosites' on a super 35
sensor as a MFT sensor...but each one would be larger on the S35 sensor, giving you more dynamic range?
This of course assumes all else is equal, which is not the case, but as a general statement, I think it is true.
 
snowblindfilm said:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with MFT sensor size, and judging by the popularity of BM Pocket, S35 is not a must for budget film makers. Where AF100 falls short is IQ, not a sensor size. Also huge advantage of MFT mount is ability to mount virtually any lens, including a true PL cine glass.
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Never said it was. But "wrong" isn't exactly the best way to describe the size of a sensor in cameras either. Perhaps because it allows for wider angles or because it closely resembles the DoF of film, my point was that larger budget narratives seem to favor S35 (or larger) sensors. If that is true, then the AF100 had an uphill battle both in terms of nailing its full potential IQ and in its sensor size, at least from a marketing point of view.

I think Alaska nails it in his description of both perception of MFTs format, and perhaps some technical limitations. The notion that sensor size might have limited sales of the AF100 is not an illogical one. And it's certainly something that Panasonic must be looking at quite closely, esp if they will be bringing a lower cost "true" video camera to market. As I noted, the popularity of the GH- series and the invention of the metabones speedbooster does give the format added life, something I'm sure they've taken into consideration.

Panasonic has seen no need to change the sensor size in the stills camera/GH4, but is that still true in the pro camera division? Guess we'll find out in April.
 
Yeah, I think the MFT format is great for run'n'gun, documentary, photojournalism, etc. especially with the AF100 form factor/features and lens sizes. With sensor improvements for low light, DR, white roll off, sharpness, image quality, resolution and the speedbooster... that's a pretty great camera! And one without a lot of competition for what it could offer and at that price point. If it had DR and low light and slow motion and 4K and features to match the FS700, with panny mojo and great IQ, for an AF100 price and with a different lens mount (which could actually be pitched as a boon for its portability and how mature the lens selection is now esp. with speedboosters)... that could be an awesome, awesome camera.

But it also does make a LOT of sense to have an S35 sensor since it is the closest to traditional film. It would be great to see them offer BOTH but it will be interesting to see what they have decided on. For an S35 sensor they would probably want to create their own mount, a Panny version of the Sony e-mount... but they have already invested heavily into m43 so this may make less sense.

If Panny releases an "AF200" around 5k-6k and the features and IQ are right, I would buy one + a GH4. Easy. If they also released an S35 edition at $8-$9k, I would have a hard decision on my hand but could see myself springing for the S35 even though I have already invested a bit into the M43 format... Though that would be a tough one, as carrying a whole 2 camera kit with interchangeable parts and matching IQ in such a small form factor would be killer for international photojounalism style documentary work, etc. Or even just portable live event coverage.

I read that the GH4, since they had to stike a balance between stills and video, requires a larger crop factor for 4K (so its a 2x crop factor @ 1080p and 2.17x @ 4K). I'm curious what other compromises were made, and I'm wondering if the same tech was engineered specifically for video if they could crank more DR/better low light out of the same technology for an "AF200" that shoots video only..

Hmm...
 
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Whats the bes setup for using EF lenses on the GH family? Im thinking powered adapter here to maintain functionality of the aperture...
 
^ probably the MetaBones SpeedBooster... whenever it becomes available

you get electronic control of your lens, plus the 2x crop becomes 1.42x (some EF-S lenses will work, some won't; all lenses designed for FF should work)
 
Samuel H said:
^ probably the MetaBones SpeedBooster... whenever it becomes available

you get electronic control of your lens, plus the 2x crop becomes 1.42x (some EF-S lenses will work, some won't; all lenses designed for FF should work)
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Ah ok... I thought they couldn't make one. But that's good news. 1.42 would keep some Ls alive.
 
Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't think Panasonic should try to compete in the the already competitive high end cinema camera market. I know that if I were doing a high end production like that I would just rent an Alexa or a RED. So I don't see the purpose in building an entirely new line of super 35 sensor cameras and lenses. It's not like they are going to be vastly cheaper than those other solutions and I doubt it will offer a better image and an Alexa.

Personally I think they should stick to TV ENG cameras with smaller sensors and lower budget cinema cameras like the m43 mount GH4 and an AF200. Focus on the shoestring budget filmmaker/corporate video/event types.

A smarter move would be to build some inexpensive cine geared m43 native lenses. Get us into some Panasonic branded cine glass that doesn't cost thousands per lens.
 
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