P2 Overview

Just out of curiousity, why would you use one of these expensive little cards instead of just hooking up a hard drive to the HVX?
 
because if your going out to shoot something really quick, the cards are small light and almost indistructable.
 
i can see how that works too. but I am planning to buy firestore fs-4 now and completely abandon from filming on tape- except to archive... for now...
and though I'd love to get rid of tape, i can't beat the mobility it still gives me.. and I think that's why im going to look forward to P2
 
pootify said:
Just out of curiousity, why would you use one of these expensive little cards instead of just hooking up a hard drive to the HVX?
Click to expand...

And I think they are more robust - no moving parts so if you're scrambling around being bumped etc, less change of damage.

Less noise - i.e. NO NOISE

Better operating temperature than an HD.

The only real downside to P2 that I can see over HD, is recording times. It's better in so many ways.


Aaron
 
Portable HDs really make that much noise? I never really thought of that as a problem, especially if you don't keep the hard drive on top of the mic. And I never really plan to scramble around with my camera either, or doing much anything that would damage a hard drive.

I dunno, just from a budget and storage capacity POV, I would just get the HD and eliminate the P2 middleman. Not to say the technology isn't a novel idea, but it seems to be a step backward in practicality. Saying the small capacity of these P2 cards is analogous to film loading seems to be just an excuse to pass off overpriced/bloated technology -- it seems like such a silly setback for a technology that already gets rid of so many inconveniences of film.
 
so, in all seriousness, why cant they release a 32gb card like, next month? i think companies withhold technology and release it slowly for us to..consume. that sucks.
 
Handing over the CARD???????

Handing over the CARD???????

I work on a variety of projects for production houses and record labels, and a problem I see coming is the situations just after a shoot. Producers want the tapes in their hands when you walk away. If you do not shoot & edit for clients, then it will limit their post options. They will have to go to post houses who support P2. And will they keep the card until it is dumped in the system, do they replace the cards, do they bring their own, etc? 75% of the time, I hand tapes to Producers at the end of the show, pack up and leave. This could not be the case with P2 cards unless they cost as much as a tape and clearly they will not, at least not for several years. This is what may give JVC an advantage. How many Producers do you know that want to add more costs and more steps to post production? None. And how many shooters are going to hand their cards over to a company so that the footage can be entered into the system, which could take a day or two? None. And no producer in their right mind would let the "master" card go until post is totally complete. And even then they would probably want to keep it. It isn't going to be the technology, it's going to be changing the minds of professionals who are stubborn and scared by a system that "seems" to take away the safety net. Would they digitize the tapes you give them now and then say, "Here are the tapes back, do whatever you need to do with them, erase what's on it so you can use it again". Sounds scary to me. This will be a huge hurdle.
 
Only a hurdle if you think of it in the same way as one thinks of tape.

Instead, imagine this workflow: as you shoot, you offload the cards to a firewire hard disk. At the end of the shoot, instead of handing the producer a boxload of tapes that they'll have to then go waste a day or two or five logging and digitizing, you instead hand over a hard disk. With all the clips pre-digitized. Edit-ready. In a format that's already understood by FCP-HD, Avid Express HD, Canopus Edius, and (next week) probably even more platforms.

Rather than creating some sort of "hurdle", you will instead be the producer's hero, and the #1 call on his/her speed-dial list next time they're shooting in your town.

You keep your cards, and you give them the hard disk (which, contrary to what someone may think, would actually be a lot *less* expensive than handing over HD tapes!)

It remains to be seen how Panasonic intends to approach this P2-to-hard-disk workflow. They have the P2 Store device, which lets you automatically transfer to a 60gb hard disk, but unless that hard disk is user-interchangeable, I don't really see that as a practical option for handing over at the end of the shoot. But if I could pick up a 160gb hard disk at Best Buy or CompUSA before the shoot, use it to dump the cards to, and then let them have it at the end ... that's a revolution. Instead of wasting days digitizing, the producer can be editing the show right away. They're gonna love it. And those shooting HDV aren't gonna have a chance to compete with that -- especially if they're shooting incompatible HDV formats (which, by the way, is the situation we currently have with the HDV so-called "standard" -- if you shoot on the JVC 720p cameras, and try to play it back on a Z1, you *cannot* digitize from the Z1, it won't play back the 720p HDV stream out the firewire...)

Handing over a pre-digitized hard disk is going to make you the producer's favorite shooter.
 
Actually you would not need to hand over the card, just move the data to a hard drive and hand over the hard drive. Then they wouldn't even need to digitize, just mount the drive, review the footage and start the edit, That would get them in and out of the edit suite faster.

As far as not releasing the 32 GB card now, that would be based on 4 8GB SD cards. Those don't exist just yet. It is not a witholding of technology, it is waiting for it to be possible.

Best,

Jan
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
Actually you would not need to hand over the card, just move the data to a hard drive and hand over the hard drive. Then they wouldn't even need to digitize, just mount the drive, review the footage and start the edit, That would get them in and out of the edit suite faster
Click to expand...

I sooooo can't wait to see the death of crappy tape systems and their capture times!

Well done Panasonic - even before I've seen the camera ;)


Aaron
 
As an equipment rentals manager for EVS, I can see the advantages of using P2 for people, and I can also see them renting 4 or 5 cards along with the camera and simply billing for the whole rental. Currently a DVX rents with us for $175, with 15% off for DVXusers. That makes it $148.75 (4.5% of the value of the camera) to rent a $3300 camera for a day or a weekend. The value of an AG-HVX200 seems double that of the DVX, so it will probably be a $297.50 daily rental. Add 2 cards at a $4000 value, and you have a total bill of $297.50 + $160 (cards) = $457.50. That is still cheaper than renting an SDX-900 from the rental house next door, and you are shooting real HD and handing your producer real progressive HD footage. I see that as an economical workable solution, that can be easily figured into a budget. Compare it with renting a Varicam, and it becomes even more affordable. Two of these cameras will hopefully be getting into my rental department as soon as they hit the floor!
 
I'm just getting started in the video buisness and the reason I bought the DVX inthe first place is because it offered topflight features at an extremely reasonable price. Along with that operating cost is factor. The whole reason for the HVX is to give Panasonic a leg up on the XL2 (native 16:9) and the Sony HD-FX (read HiDef) in the prosumer market. Although the advantages of the P2 card are obvious, the simple fact is that the low recording times for HIDef (after all, if you're not going to shoot HiDef, why do you need this camera?) and the high expense of the P2 card put this camera out of the reach people like me. I might be tempted to spend $5000 to $6000 for this camera but there's no way I'd spend another $4000 to $5000 for the media and it's support equipment. Maybe in a couple of years they'll have a 60 or 80 gig card at a reasonable price (under $800). If that happens, then I'll be back.
 
Bucknfl said:
How do you archive your HD footage?
Click to expand...

That is a great question, and one in which I would love to know the answer. Archiving DV is easy and cheap - onto tape. Archiving from P2 seems to be cumbersome right now. You could archive onto and Harddrive, which is getting cheaper to do everyday, but what about when you upgrade your computer, you'll have to be able to continue to access the Harddrives, or you'll have to buy new ones and copy the info over to them if they are not compatible with the new system. I suppose that you could archive on P2, that is if you've got a lot of money to burn.

I'm excited about the possibilities of a tapeless world, but right now that world seems far off ...
 
waltind said:
That is a great question, and one in which I would love to know the answer. Archiving DV is easy and cheap - onto tape. Archiving from P2 seems to be cumbersome right now. You could archive onto and Harddrive, which is getting cheaper to do everyday, but what about when you upgrade your computer, you'll have to be able to continue to access the Harddrives, or you'll have to buy new ones and copy the info over to them if they are not compatible with the new system. I suppose that you could archive on P2, that is if you've got a lot of money to burn.

I'm excited about the possibilities of a tapeless world, but right now that world seems far off ...
Click to expand...

Frankly Ryan, hard drives would not be my first choice. In fact would be the very last next to tape. hard drives are not reliable to put on the shelf for years without bringing them up to spin on occasion. Once Data is Data, it is much cheaper to archive that way. You do have to think about archiving as it will require a plan unlike just putting all your tapes on the shelf.

The options are DVD, which is a little small even on dual sided, as it will only save about 1 minute a Gig. Blue-ray which on the dual will get you closer to 50 Gigs, but that still seems small. I would take a look at Quantum with their new DLT, the 600 as is actually is MXF aware, or the ExaByte LTOs as both of these systems offer a better bang for the buck than tape and offer a better ratio for saving just the good stuff. When working with DVCPRO HD, the tape is much more expensive than DV tape and saving everything is expensive. Also on the horizon is the Holographic Blue Lazer which also looks like a cost performance winner.

Hope that helps,

Jan
 
Thanks Jan. I always appreciate your input. I agree that Hard drives would not be the way to go, but for the here and now they seem like an affordable bridge until other options become available, many drives can be had for less then $1/Gig. I'll look into the Quatum, sounds like a possibility. The other options sound better to me, but alas they are not available yet :cry:
 
I saw that card today...its freakin huge!!! for 4 gigs? dammnnn. Its like 5 or 6 inches long and 3 inches wide
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top