OUCH!!!!!!!!! Not for the faint of heart! You've been warned...

Sad Max said:
The only thing that makes bullfighting tolerable for me is the fact that despite the odds being stacked against him, sometimes the bull wins. I'm sorry, I can't help it, it's not out of malice toward the bullfighters, but I always root for the bull.
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Totally agree. I'm generally against activities that involve killing animals for fun, but it seems more OK if the playing field is somewhat level, like shark fishing from a kayak or hunting wild boar with a knife.
 
I totally agree with sad max, I'm always for the bull. over here in Spain there are lots of discussions about it being tolerable. The pro bullfight ones defend themselves saying that it is a tradition......the lamest excuse that exists....
 
I don't think humans will ever be peaceful toward other humans until they start being peaceful toward animals.
 
Drew Ott said:
I don't think humans will ever be peaceful toward other humans until they start being peaceful toward animals.
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Then we're boned. Humans are omnivores, after all. No matter how kindly we try to treat some animals, others will - for our collective purposes - still mainly exist for slaughter.
 
Rakesh Jacob said:
OH MY FREAKIN EYES!!!! Why didn't I pay attention to the warning? I love blood, guts and violence... as long as I know it's not real :(
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Graphic depictions of a horny matador may not be suitable for all viewers. Viewer discretion is advised.
 
Give us a topic, and we'll put the political spin on it by the second page. [insert nonexistent rolling eye emoticon here]
 
Sad Max said:
Then we're boned. Humans are omnivores, after all.
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Diet wise, humans are what ever they choose to be. The Inuit live on a almost completely (raw) meat diet (and don´t get very old). Many more worldwide live a vegan or raw lifestyle and are healthy as one can be.
So if we have the choice, why choose personal taste over the collective tragedy of so called "livestock"...?

But anyways, bullfighting is just plain sick.
 
Spartacus said:
Diet wise, humans are what ever they choose to be. The Inuit live on a almost completely (raw) meat diet (and don´t get very old). Many more worldwide live a vegan or raw lifestyle and are healthy as one can be.
So if we have the choice, why choose personal taste over the collective tragedy of so called "livestock"...?

But anyways, bullfighting is just plain sick.
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A friend of mine who studies psychology told me the other day they have a whole class basically on just defining the word "healthy".

But yeah, bullfighting is sick.
 
Drew Ott said:
I don't think humans will ever be peaceful toward other humans until they start being peaceful toward animals.
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Sad Max said:
Then we're boned. Humans are omnivores, after all. No matter how kindly we try to treat some animals, others will - for our collective purposes - still mainly exist for slaughter.
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You know, the day humans start being peaceful towards one another is the day we'll start going extinct. Unless there's an alien invasion or something.
We pretty much don't have any natural predators left other than ourselves, so we'll be like that breed of birds (I forget their name) that live on that cliff on that island, with no natural predators so they're dying out and losing their ability to fly and whatnot.


Also, and this is even worse, without human conflict we'll all be out of work.
 
Drew Ott said:
Yes, humans were likely once all vegetarians.
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Paleontological evidence says no.

Homo Neanderthalensis - a close cousin species, the 'Neanderthals' - were just about obligate carnivores.

Cro-Magnons - a branch leading to us, Homo Sapiens - were omnivores.

We're omnivores not by some kind of conscious choice, but by virtue of having the dentition and metabolic ability to consume and benefit from meat as well as vegetable nutrients. Not to mention that on an evolutionary time-scale the available evidence demonstrates that human cooperation developed to support hunting, not farming.

Yes, some people can get by quite well and be very healthy as vegans (with relentless supplementation and dietary monitoring). It's not baseline-normal for everyone.
 
You're right, "human" was poor word choice. The prevailing theory about the evolution of our diet is that we were once vegetarian, then scavengers, then hunters. My point is that evolution doesn't breed the most compassionate individuals, so our ability to digest meat doesn't necessarily mean it's the best option (ethically speaking).
 
Most evidence supports the idea that ethics are an evolutionary development, as well. Ethics that promote the survival of other species over the benefit of your own, however, don't fit comfortably into the schema of natural selection.
 
Drew Ott said:
You're right, "human" was poor word choice. The prevailing theory about the evolution of our diet is that we were once vegetarian, then scavengers, then hunters. My point is that evolution doesn't breed the most compassionate individuals, so our ability to digest meat doesn't necessarily mean it's the best option (ethically speaking).
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Well, between the high level of protein meat provided, the advent of COOKED meat (much more easily digested) seems to have lead directly to the increase of brain size which eventually lead to sentience.

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html


*As with everything, each individual is free to subscribe to whatever beliefs they choose. :happy:
 
Sad Max said:
Most evidence supports the idea that ethics are an evolutionary development, as well. Ethics that promote the survival of other species over the benefit of your own, however, don't fit comfortably into the schema of natural selection.
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Right, I'm a believer of evolutionary psychology as the prevailing reason behind our way of thinking. I think it's important for humans to be able to resist what natural selection has made them desire if those desires cause more harm than good.

For example... Humans, including me, love fatty and sugary foods. Evolution hasn't caught up with our technological society, so obesity is on the rise.

Just because natural selection has made us the way we are, that doesn't mean the way we are is the best way. We know most animals have nerves, feel pain, feel emotion, etc. Our bodies want to eat them, but that doesn't mean it's the best decision.
 
Blaine said:
Well, between the high level of protein meat provided, the advent of COOKED meat (much more easily digested) seems to have lead directly to the increase of brain size which eventually lead to sentience.

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html


*As with everything, each individual is free to subscribe to whatever beliefs they choose. :happy:
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Another theory has to do with Omega-3 from fish helping with brain size. Another that goes along with the cooked meat theory, is that when humans had to start working together on team hunts, intellect increased.


...getting kicked out of Starbucks.
 
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