This should probably go in a camera forum, but there doesn't seem to be a general discussion board that is not specific to a camera, except for the dslr one, perhaps time for a large chip cameras general category is due.
I'm not interested in dslr or similar formfactor camera for the purpose of shooting video, I don't care how good the quality gets for me it is not an option. I need a viewfinder, orientable, and a screen of high enough quality to be able to make lighting, focus and exposure decisions without the need of an external monitor.
I would like something along the lines of a sony vg20, with the basic functionality built into the body, mic in, headphones, video out, with electonic connections for more professional ins and outs via modules. Lets say top handle xlr pack, and an sdi module for the back. These would be optional upgrades purchased as needed. If need be these modules could have a ridiculous price point, but they would be there if needed without needing to step up to the next level camera body just to get it.
Canon sort of has this with the xa 10 being the pro version of whatever the consumer version is called with the removable top handle, but it isn't optional and the consumer version doesn't have the pins to attach it, why not just have a base unit and the option of buying the other thing like panasonic does with the hmc40.
I would like a bear minimum broadcast accepted codec built into body. Right now that seems to be mpeg2 50. I don't care how good avdhd 24mb/s looks, or how well it transcodes and the end result is more than good enough, I want to be able pick up my camera and shoot my project and not have to wonder if it would be rejected based on the camera original codec. If the canon xf100 can have this at $4000, it is inexcusable that the sony F3 does not at $13000. Sure there is 10 bit out and even the s-log option, but that is more rigging and more stuff. Not to knock sony and the F3 as it seems to be the top of the heap for the almost affordable cameras, but for the price of the s-log firmware I would think it should enable high bit rate internal recording at atleast 422. They can't say the card wont handle it as the Alexa does prores 444 on sxs cards. The external hookups are there for output to hdcam, uncompressed or whatever, but it is shameful that it doesn't have a universally accepted minimum broadcast codec on board. They can say it is part of the ex line but it is twice the price of an EX1 and not even in the same league.
From what I've seen of the 100's from both sony and Pany, I'd say they are brilliant and the avchd codec is not a problem for me, I love low data rate on cheap memory cards, I would just like to some sort of industry white paper that states that this is good enough providing it goes through an approved workflow, intermediate codec whatever. This needs to happen sooner rather than later. Its all well and good for bbc to state that the pany is fine with a nanoflash, but that is more expense and not how I want to work. If I need to rent a recorder for an effects shot, I know the option is there, or for a high end job that wants better from the get go fine.
I can appreciate the apprehension of the broadcasters re the format, but that is probably due to the fact that it sprang from consumer cameras and the first wave came on 1/3" cams which they tend to reject for aesthetic reasons alone. That is not the case with the new big chips. Just prior to the universal jump to Hd, miniDV was widely accepted, including the pro variants which at the codec level were exactly the same. Somebody at the highest levels needs to lobby for the codec as a minimum standard, as long as aesthetics and other intagibles are met. If the viewer can't tell the difference why should it matter.
At this point canon probably has the best chance of meeting this wish list, as they haven't yet shown their hand in the current round, and the cycles on the pro cams is slow, so there is bound to no replacement for the current big chip cams any time soon. I would assume they would go with the mpeg2 50. How about making that writable to sdxc cards with avchd options on the same cam, SDI on a module not an up-priced version of the same camera.
The only way for for the current ones to cut would be to get avchd approved as an unrestricted production format, In which case I hope a really good and cheap consumer hybrid comes to bat and blows open the doors for the little guys like me. Equal they playing field an make content king.
This may be just a rant but I'm sure others feel the same way. For me this is a high end hobby, but I still have dreams. I can't afford a new camera every year as little incremental improvements are added.
I'm seriously interested in the Sony vg20, even though it may be still not quite there yet, It is close to good enough for what I do until I can collect the lenses that would justify a better body. I can't really justify trying to budget for either of the 100's without acceptance of the codec. I can dream of the F3 but it is way out of my league and still needs an external recorder to shine.
I'm not interested in dslr or similar formfactor camera for the purpose of shooting video, I don't care how good the quality gets for me it is not an option. I need a viewfinder, orientable, and a screen of high enough quality to be able to make lighting, focus and exposure decisions without the need of an external monitor.
I would like something along the lines of a sony vg20, with the basic functionality built into the body, mic in, headphones, video out, with electonic connections for more professional ins and outs via modules. Lets say top handle xlr pack, and an sdi module for the back. These would be optional upgrades purchased as needed. If need be these modules could have a ridiculous price point, but they would be there if needed without needing to step up to the next level camera body just to get it.
Canon sort of has this with the xa 10 being the pro version of whatever the consumer version is called with the removable top handle, but it isn't optional and the consumer version doesn't have the pins to attach it, why not just have a base unit and the option of buying the other thing like panasonic does with the hmc40.
I would like a bear minimum broadcast accepted codec built into body. Right now that seems to be mpeg2 50. I don't care how good avdhd 24mb/s looks, or how well it transcodes and the end result is more than good enough, I want to be able pick up my camera and shoot my project and not have to wonder if it would be rejected based on the camera original codec. If the canon xf100 can have this at $4000, it is inexcusable that the sony F3 does not at $13000. Sure there is 10 bit out and even the s-log option, but that is more rigging and more stuff. Not to knock sony and the F3 as it seems to be the top of the heap for the almost affordable cameras, but for the price of the s-log firmware I would think it should enable high bit rate internal recording at atleast 422. They can't say the card wont handle it as the Alexa does prores 444 on sxs cards. The external hookups are there for output to hdcam, uncompressed or whatever, but it is shameful that it doesn't have a universally accepted minimum broadcast codec on board. They can say it is part of the ex line but it is twice the price of an EX1 and not even in the same league.
From what I've seen of the 100's from both sony and Pany, I'd say they are brilliant and the avchd codec is not a problem for me, I love low data rate on cheap memory cards, I would just like to some sort of industry white paper that states that this is good enough providing it goes through an approved workflow, intermediate codec whatever. This needs to happen sooner rather than later. Its all well and good for bbc to state that the pany is fine with a nanoflash, but that is more expense and not how I want to work. If I need to rent a recorder for an effects shot, I know the option is there, or for a high end job that wants better from the get go fine.
I can appreciate the apprehension of the broadcasters re the format, but that is probably due to the fact that it sprang from consumer cameras and the first wave came on 1/3" cams which they tend to reject for aesthetic reasons alone. That is not the case with the new big chips. Just prior to the universal jump to Hd, miniDV was widely accepted, including the pro variants which at the codec level were exactly the same. Somebody at the highest levels needs to lobby for the codec as a minimum standard, as long as aesthetics and other intagibles are met. If the viewer can't tell the difference why should it matter.
At this point canon probably has the best chance of meeting this wish list, as they haven't yet shown their hand in the current round, and the cycles on the pro cams is slow, so there is bound to no replacement for the current big chip cams any time soon. I would assume they would go with the mpeg2 50. How about making that writable to sdxc cards with avchd options on the same cam, SDI on a module not an up-priced version of the same camera.
The only way for for the current ones to cut would be to get avchd approved as an unrestricted production format, In which case I hope a really good and cheap consumer hybrid comes to bat and blows open the doors for the little guys like me. Equal they playing field an make content king.
This may be just a rant but I'm sure others feel the same way. For me this is a high end hobby, but I still have dreams. I can't afford a new camera every year as little incremental improvements are added.
I'm seriously interested in the Sony vg20, even though it may be still not quite there yet, It is close to good enough for what I do until I can collect the lenses that would justify a better body. I can't really justify trying to budget for either of the 100's without acceptance of the codec. I can dream of the F3 but it is way out of my league and still needs an external recorder to shine.
