one shotgun mic to cam?

S

schmolze

Active member
hi lads and lasses,

i went to b&h this weekend, had a long talk with the audio guy, who essentially advised that i just wire the shotgun right into the camera and monitor it carefully as i shoot (as opposed to buying a $600 mixer).

is this the standard method?

am i crazy to think i can get by shooting an entire movie (regardless of length, but probably 30-40 mins.) with only one shotgun mic?

thanks
 
Re: one shotgun mic to cam?

[quote author=schmolze link=board=audio;num=1109119875;start=0#0 date=02/22/05 at 16:51:15]hi lads and lasses,

i went to b&h this weekend, had a long talk with the audio guy, who essentially advised that i just wire the shotgun right into the camera and monitor it carefully as i shoot (as opposed to buying a $600 mixer).

is this the standard method?

am i crazy to think i can get by shooting an entire movie (regardless of length, but probably 30-40 mins.) with only one shotgun mic?

thanks[/quote]

What were his reasons for doing this? I usually advise people AGAINST doing this. Are you restricted by a budget or number of people on your crew? If you are a one man band, then you have to go this route, but I strongly recommend you reconsider.

-Dave
 
Re: one shotgun mic to cam?

that was my instinct as well. i asked about a low-cost mixer to run the mic through, and he said that buying one of the $100 dollar mixers would only add noise, and to go directly to cam unless i wanted to buy a $600-$700 mixer, which i definitely do not.

so, not sure what to do...
 
Re: one shotgun mic to cam?

Well, that's kinda true. However, if you are going to do sound, do it right the first time, and get a real mixer, weather you buy or rent.

-Dave
 
Re: one shotgun mic to cam?


virtually nobody i know uses a mixer between the shotgun and their dvx-100.

your crew and the complexity and places for failure multiply when you add that many more steps between your mic and your xlr input.

unless you have a very good audio person i think you would get much worse sound trying to get it through a mixer by yourself.

i know someone who has a dvx-100 and a wendt x2 mixer ($1,000 or so) and i don't think his sound is any better than what i get with no mixer. in fact much of my sound is probably better.

maybe i'm lucky or maybe i'm missing something but i have a senn me-66 with an audio technica shockmount mounting the shotgun mic to the camera and i monitor the sound ALL THE TIME with a good pair of sony headphones (7056 model i think?)

the headphones are designed for audio monitoring. i have two pairs of sennheiser 600's that are audiophile quality but they are designed to make the sound sound better, the sony's are designed to let you hear the sound exactly as it is so you won't be mis-led.

i would start off just using your mic mounted on top of the camera and see how it goes. just learn how to adjust the volume wheels and always use headphones.

matthew
 
Re: one shotgun mic to cam?

Yes, test a lot.  That answers many of your questions. I've never used a mixer, mostly because I can't afford one, and I don't have anyone to operate it.  It's hard enough getting a capable boom operator.  I try not to complicate things unnecessarily.

Now as to your question about one mic being enough, that will depend on who you ask.  Some of the more experienced audio guys on this site will tell you that certain mics sound better under certain conditions (indoor, outdoor, etc)  But many of us get by with one good mic.  I think some of your decision making comes down to what the purpose of the film is.  If you are doing it to learn, gain experience and maybe enter a festival or two, one good mic might be enough.  If you have a budget and you are looking for distribution, hire a pro.
 
Re: one shotgun mic to cam?

I can think of many reasons why you would want to add a mixer in (especially if you can find someone good to run it. ;-)

I was working on a project recently where the dialogue volume went through extreme changes in a scene. You would have gotten significant blow outs if you weren't using a mixer to adjust the levels. Even if your mixer is a lower end (i.e. cost) mixer. We would have unusable audio had we not had a mixer.
 
Re: one shotgun mic to cam?

You can get a Behringer UB802 Eurorack 8 Input Mixer for about 50 bucks. We use these in the field and in the studio. Use these with a great mic and you should be more than fine.

We go boom to mixer, to Camera (Back up only) hard drive recorder and headphone amp. We don't use the Camera audio unless we need to. Actually, we don't use tapes, we record directly to hard drive with DV Rack so you can also use that to monitor your sound levels.
 
Re: one shotgun mic to cam?

[quote author=nsfilms link=board=audio;num=1109119875;start=0#8 date=02/24/05 at 00:23:22]You can get a Behringer UB802 Eurorack 8 Input Mixer for about 50 bucks. We use these in the field and in the studio. Use these with a great mic and you should be more than fine.

We go boom to mixer, to Camera (Back up only) hard drive recorder and headphone amp. We don't use the Camera audio unless we need to. Actually, we don't use tapes, we record directly to hard drive with DV Rack so you can also use that to monitor your sound levels.[/quote]

That sounds like a really smart setup.

Most of the projects I have dealt with use a mixer between the mic and the camera. If you use a good mixer, you will probably not have any added issues or added problems, unless you have a monkey running your gear. Doing it this way only helps your sound.

However, there are times where you won't or can't have a seperate audio person for whatever reason, and then you have to put the mic on the camera. It's not the best solution, but definitely no the worst. I am actually working on a project now where the person camera mounted the mic, or used wireless, and plugged directly into the camera. Fortunately, this guy is a sound nut, and knew what he was doing, so there are minimal problems.

Fortunately, the DVX100 has a reasonable enough audio section to not sound too terribly bad. If you are running a single mic into the camera, it's usually a good idea to split the mic into both inputs, and knock one input down 5 to 10 db lower than the other as a safety.

The nice thing is, that with your current setup, you do have the ability to expand later on, or rent extra equipment if you really need it.


-Dave
 
Re: one shotgun mic to cam?

thanks a lot guys. for some reason the email notifications stopped early on.
i appreciate all the feedback.
 
Re: one shotgun mic to cam?

[quote author=Dave_Fisk link=board=audio;num=1109119875;start=0#9 date=02/24/05 at 10:10:25]

Fortunately, the DVX100 has a reasonable enough audio section to not sound too terribly bad. If you are running a single mic into the camera, it's usually a good idea to split the mic into both inputs, and knock one input down 5 to 10 db lower than the other as a safety.

[/quote]

If you are ONLY using one mic then I don't get the point of a mixer. Unless you get a Mixpre or a 302 then the mixer WILL only add noise and if you do as Dave suggests above you won't need to ride any levels.

More important then the mixer is getting the mic close. You need to boom it with a stand in static scenes or get a boom op for active ones. A cam-mounted mic will only yeild good results about 10% of the time.

Also I'm in the camp which says you'll need at least two mics to cover a variety of situations... and really you should have three... but to do EVERYTHING with a shotgun? Unless you stay out of reverberrant rooms, cars, and places with other sounds behind the actors, you're going to be dissappointed. I guess a lot depends on your overall expectations of this movie.

Some days I feel guilty telling people to buy more mics... other days all I can think is that you somehow found the cash for a DVX so what's another few hundred bucks? If you ever hear a production that was properly mic'ed you'll wish you coulda' shot that one-mic'er over again. (With a boom op and at least two mics for different situations.)

If you get a REALLY good shotgun then I'd say you could get away with one shotgun and a lav (per speaker or perhaps for two people)... and if that shotgun is mid-level or lower (as in sub-$500) then you probably should have a shotgun, hyper, and lav (or really TWO lavs). That spread would cover you for EVERYTHING. (After you have those mics every additional variant is just icing to perfect the cake.)

If I could ONLY have one mic it would be a $1K shotgun, which WOULD work in most situations... a 416, mkh-60, or CS-3e would work indoors or outdoors... and if I didn't have the budget for THAT and I still insisted on only one mic I'd make it a hyper-cardioid.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top