Once you've got the basics lit... (atmosphere lighting)

J

JaredSMark

Active member
Once you've got your key, fill, and hair light set up - when the subject is looking great, is it pretty much OK to go and do some experimenting with everything else after that? I'm using a 1k Arri w/softbox for the key, a reflector for the fill, and a small Arri 150 for the hair light. I've considered getting more Arri lights for creating mood/atmosphere, but I'm not sure that I can justify paying that much just for mood/decorative lighting. I'm planning on taking a look around for some small, very cheap lights and getting a set of color gels and those cardboard cutout things for experimenting with the atmosphere. Even if it's cheap Chinese lights, I may consider it since it's only for accenting and so on.

Can someone maybe recommend something that may be up my alley? I was thinking something like portable, battery-powered MR16-like lights that I can mount anywhere I'd like and put gels on them when I want.
 
Those battery powered "under the cabinet" fluorescents from Home Depot work great for having the BG of a shot, highlighting an architectural element. Also work great for car interiors.
 
Those Hurlbut links are deceiving as the simplicity of using store-bought fixtures to light tells only half the story. The other half is that he's a hot shot big Hollywood DP so no matter what he does the client will be pissing in his pants out of joy and "because" he's "big Hollywood DP" he has lighting in his small finger so out of boredom he does "strange" things such us using store-bought fixtures to light his subjects. That same production done by noname guy who's trying to save on lights will look like crap and might cost you your client because you are using lights that the client has in his garage.

To OP, the background light (or as you call it accent light) is as important as your subject's light - one of the weakness of most semi-pro footage is that it's done by people who know about 3-point lighting on their subject but totally forget about the BG.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
Those Hurlbut links are deceiving as the simplicity of using store-bought fixtures to light tells only half the story. The other half is that he's a hot shot big Hollywood DP so no matter what he does the client will be pissing in his pants out of joy and "because" he's "big Hollywood DP" he has lighting in his small finger so out of boredom he does "strange" things such us using store-bought fixtures to light his subjects. That same production done by noname guy who's trying to save on lights will look like crap and might cost you your client because you are using lights that the client has in his garage.

To OP, the background light (or as you call it accent light) is as important as your subject's light - one of the weakness of most semi-pro footage is that it's done by people who know about 3-point lighting on their subject but totally forget about the BG.
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I understand where you are coming from Patryk. However, I do disagree. I think that the Hurlbut posts are liberating for the independent filmmaker. Great lighting is not guaranteed by using "Professional" lights either. I understand the double plus bad image that shooting with DIY lights and delivering a badly lit project can say, "Wow, he sucks and he is an amateur..." Of course, working with pro lights and delivering a badly lit project says a lot also, "Well, he is a pro... but, Wow, he sucks..." Six of one, half dozen of the other! I guess the answer is to not suck with how you light and you can do that with a lot of different kinds of light. If you can deliver a beautiful product, nobody is going to care how you did it.

Postmaster said:
I think nothing is more boring than a classical 3 point lighting.

Frank
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I have to agree with Frank on this. In a fictional narrative films, many times when I see classical 3 point lighting, it takes me out of the movie. In fictional narrative filmmaking, classical 3 point lighting is, in most instances, an antiquated cinema convention like the Wilhelm scream, squealing tire sound effects on dirt roads, process back grounds, the iris in and out and the fact that ANOTHER blow to the head will cure amnesia! You have to understand that classical 3 point lighting was developed because of technological limitations of film in the early years of filmmaking. In those days, film stocks were very slow, necessitating a large amount of light to expose the image. This lead to the development of powerful movie lights to provide the key light on the talent. The film stocks in the early days also did not have very high dynamic range. This lead to the development of ways to add fill light to the image to lower the luminance range of scenes so they could be recorded within the limited dynamic of the available film stocks. This film stocks were also black and white. To facilitate 3d separation, DPs started using back lights, hair lights and kickers. This 3 point lighting method dominated Hollywood cinematography from the mid 1920s to the late 1960s. This is Hollywood high Key lighting. In the late 1960s, with the rise of The New Hollywood, there was a revolution in cinematography. Modern cinematography was born in the 1970s and inherent in this revolution was a rejection of the Hollywood high key lighting style. Lighting became more naturalistic and much less contrived. I question whether any of the films that have been praised for their cinematography in the last 40 years has used a consistent classical 3 point lighting design.
 
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David G. Smith said:
In those days, film stocks were very slow, necessitating a large amount of light to expose the image. This lead to the development of powerful movie lights to provide the key light on the talent. The film stocks in the early days also did not have very high dynamic range. This lead to the development of ways to add fill light to the image to lower the luminance range of scenes so they could be recorded within the limited dynamic of the available film stocks.
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What's more, the uniform of the day was a suit on set... or perhaps some junior staff could wear a sweater and tie... as shown in this picture of 'Technicolor' production... Speaking of which, I've read elsewhere that the crew would often wear sunglasses on sit, and that some actors and actresses came a way with eye damage because of the brightness of the lights required...

technicolor-onset.jpg


Talk about truly boring...

In any case, I watched the makingof for "Rebel Without a Cause"(1955) and to do the Griffith's Observatory shot, I think there were like 5-6 generator trucks to power the lights that they needed... I haven't been able to find a still online for that one...
 
Just to clarify: 3-point-lighting is not some antique from the 40s or 50s but rather a normal lighting set-up that's relevant to pretty much ANY production. Even though the wattage of the lighting units changed their function in lighting scheme didn't! Even the Hurlbut lighting set-up in above example is a version of 3-point lighting set-up (minus the fill as he chooses not to use it)!!

David, i guess we would have to define what "independent filmmaker" really means. Is it a guy who has a few dozen/hundred of productions under his belt and CHOOSES to use clamp light for that specific set-up or is it a guy who just got a DSLR and is hopping to break into lighting with his 2 Home Depot calm lights?
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
Just to clarify: 3-point-lighting is not some antique from the 40s or 50s but rather a normal lighting set-up that's relevant to pretty much ANY production. Even though the wattage of the lighting units changed their function in lighting scheme didn't! Even the Hurlbut lighting set-up in above example is a version of 3-point lighting set-up (minus the fill as he chooses not to use it)!!

David, i guess we would have to define what "independent filmmaker" really means. Is it a guy who has a few dozen/hundred of productions under his belt and CHOOSES to use clamp light for that specific set-up or is it a guy who just got a DSLR and is hopping to break into lighting with his 2 Home Depot calm lights?
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I will give you that the Hurlbut example is a talking head shot, and 3 point lighting is the standard of lighting for those. I am just saying that when I see this style of lighting in a fictional narrative film, it takes me out of the film in many instances. It screams, "Movie Lighting"....IMHO.

I am not sure that defining "Independent Filmmaker" is necessary. If a clamp light works to light a specific scene, what does it matter what the experience or reputation of the DP who choose to use the light is? Isn't the quality of the images produced more important then how we looked while we were making those images?
 
Sometimes it works to just have a key, fill, and backlight...Sometimes you only need one or two of those. Sometimes you only need a little something on the background.

As for the OP. Maybe try some 150 watt par 38's. Or you can go a little classier and search around for some Mole Inkies on craigslist. Depending on where you live you might be able to find em for a reasonable price.
 
David G. Smith said:
If a clamp light works to light a specific scene, what does it matter what the experience or reputation of the DP who choose to use the light is?
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Because when reputable / experienced DP chooses a clamp light then he knows the strengths and weaknesses of the instrument - what it can and cannot do. When no-experience guy tries to save time and money by using a clamp light... then he discovers that it would be also nice to cut down some spills so he proceeds to camp some black-wrap to the light, then some more to create a topper then the camp light never designed to take the weight of that extra blackwrap falls to the ground and the bulb has to be replaced and... Don't laughs as this was me when i was just starting out!
 
It has a lot to do with taste and your personal style as DP.
I prefer my key light in the opposite site where it usually is - somewhere between 9:30 and 2:30 o clock.
If I have the key in the classic position, I tend to have my fill on the same site.
Rather than rim lighting hair and shoulders, I just brighten the background of the dark site of the face a stop and a half for separation.

Things like that, some are old noir techniques some of it is just used since a few years.
Start thinking out of the box instead of "being safe" and develop your own signature.

Frank
 
Frank, truth is that this site is filed with pros who use clamp lights but also go way beyond that (i used a coat hanger to bounce some strange lighting effect into actor's eyes recently) and a whole flock of people who are just starting out. I'm not sure what your teaching experience is but having given a few lighting lectures at Columbia University here in NYC i can tell you that there is a desperate need for people to understand simplest basics of light and although the "anything works!" is a nice sentiment it also doesn't really teach the "young" the techniques that would give them the confidence to go ahead and experiment developing their own style.
 
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