On location music video with NEX7 + Rode videomic PRO

[Steve House]

Bruker, that is very useful advice. I was already planning to make some audio tests on location before starting to shoot, but you´ve posted a lot of good stuff.
She will play classical and I´m looking for a tight sound in a moderately big room. So, you´re saying I should set DB to -48 (as low as the H4N goes) and then up recording volume until I get the sound bar on the sound meter where I want it?
Also, where should the sound bar be when it´s at it´s lowest (say a person speaking normally) and where should it be at it´s highest (say a person screaming)?

The meter ("sound bar") of a digital recorder should never ever touch full-scale. For safety sake, I'd choose a "never exceed" level of -3dB. With normal speech the recording levels should be set so the meter is bouncing around the -12dB mark.

 

[paulears]

You really are going to hate this shoot. A camera mounted mic is going to make the piano sound DIRE, and as others have said, you can't even try to fix it with eq because each position will be different.

A two track recorder and a vocal mic and a piano mic are absolutely essential - we've had all sorts of talk about piano recording lately. If you want it to sound good - two mics, each in the right place are the only way to go, and if she messes up, you'll be doing lots of editing audio too!

 

[rawfa]

You really are going to hate this shoot. A camera mounted mic is going to make the piano sound DIRE, and as others have said, you can't even try to fix it with eq because each position will be different.

A two track recorder and a vocal mic and a piano mic are absolutely essential - we've had all sorts of talk about piano recording lately. If you want it to sound good - two mics, each in the right place are the only way to go, and if she messes up, you'll be doing lots of editing audio too!

I don´t think you´ve read the entire thread. I´ve stated a couple of posts ago that I´ve bought an H4N and a NTG3.

 

[rawfa]

The meter ("sound bar") of a digital recorder should never ever touch full-scale. For safety sake, I'd choose a "never exceed" level of -3dB. With normal speech the recording levels should be set so the meter is bouncing around the -12dB mark.

Sorry for my ignorance. This is actually my first time really addressing audio by my self. Are these DB values that you´re mentioning the same values that are displayed by the sound meter sound bars? I don´t have the H4N so cannot check it.

 

[Steve House]

I don´t think you´ve read the entire thread. I´ve stated a couple of posts ago that I´ve bought an H4N and a NTG3.

The NTG-3 is good for dialog recording, NOT so good for your piano and performer if that's the only mic you're going to be using. A shotgun has a narrow pattern of maximum sensitivity - it's designed to isolate the subject it's aimed at from the surrounding sounds, In your application, it would perhaps be used aimed at the performer to record her voice clearly. But recording her voice clearly means NOT recording the piano on the same track. You'll get some piano, of course, the NTG3 isn't deaf to off-axis sound, but it won't be recorded in balance or with good clarity - being off to the side of the pattern means the timbre of the piano recording will be affected. To sound good, you'll need to separately mic the piano and the performer.

Trying to record takes done moving the camera into multiple positions, stopping and restarting the camera for each change, and editing them together into a coherent complete performance is going be give you a major headaches - my money says you're going to find it impossible to do and have the result sound decent. Recording from the camera position damages the sound because the mics are too far from the source, changing camera positions means the takes won't match each other because the mic positions are different, you'll miss part of the music while moving the camera OR if you let it roll you'll introduce handing noise into the sound track during the move, and finally, no two performances of a piece are absolutely identical which means they are very difficult to intercut smoothly with each other. You'll find take A is slightly faster or slower than take B, for example, so when you try to cut them together the resulting tempo either speeds up or slows down with each edit.

You might try this approach ... I assume the piano is a grand and not an upright. Place the NTG3 on a stand where it can be aimed at the performer's mouth. Place the H4n on another stand close to and aimed down into the piano itself. I'm picturing a stage with the piano positioned so when the top is open it is sending sound out into the audience. The stand with the shotgun is on the side of the piano away from the audience so the piano top shields it from direct exposure to the strings, pointed right at the performers face. The H4n is on the audience side, close to the edge of the piano in the scooped-out curve with its internal mics pointed down into the piano aimed at the strings. Set the recorder for 4 channel mode, and connect the NTG3 to XLR input 1. This will give you two parallel stereo files, one favouring the piano using the recorder's own mics and one having a blank right channel and the NTG on the left, favouring the performer's voice.

 

[Steve House]

Sorry for my ignorance. This is actually my first time really addressing audio by my self. Are these DB values that you´re mentioning the same values that are displayed by the sound meter sound bars? I don´t have the H4N so cannot check it.

Yes, they're on the meter. -12 is marked, -3 is not but you can count the dots between 0 and -6 which is marked.

 

[rawfa]

Thanks, everybody. This has been a real class for me.

 

[ggrantly]

NTG3 is a great mic. If I were in your shoes and not able to get a couple of more suitable mics, I'd record straight to the H4n using the internal mics and sync the video in post. Little recorders like this were made to do session recording and it's the strong point of their skill set. A pair of good omnis would be better, but if you have to, run what you brung.

Grant

 

[DanielRutter]

Correct me if I'm wrong... but can't you use the H4n built in mics, and an external mic as well? If so, why not use the H4n mics to record the piano audio... and the NTG3 for the voice? Record that, then use that as a reference track for the rest of the shoot... have her "sync" her singing and playing to that first recording.

Ideally, and I have done this in the past... you can take your audio gear to her place, record her playing the song... go home, do some audio tweaking so it sounds alright... then take the working track with you on the shoot using an iPod/Mp3 player and headphone... and just get her to play along to the song for your various takes.

Your audio recording won't sound like something out of a recording studio... but you will get something much better than attempting to do it on location in the same shoot.

I did what I mentioned above for this shoot. Audio isn't anywhere near amazing, but definitely better than trying to record it outdoors on the day. All recorded with the inbuilt mics of the Zoom H1... Even the electric guitar is plugged into it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM_e6ed7JH0