On a 1/4 splitter, what is TSF and TRS

D

Deer Film

Well-known member
Hi, I want to split a 1/4 inch cable plug into two so I can record to two different sources. I am looking at the Hosa brand. Where talking only about 7 dollars here. I have 3 options TS, TRS, and TSF. Not sure what it stands for and what is recommended. I am going to take an audio source from a hand held mic at a conference, and split it so one is being recorded to my Soom recorder and the other is recorded to my HMC150.
Thanks for any info.
 
1) What are you coming OUT of? What kind of connector? 1/4" TS (unbalanced)? or TRS (balanced)? What audio level? (mic level?, line level?)
2) Can we assume that you meant "Zoom recorder"? Which model? What kind of input connections/levels are available?
3) The HMC 150 has XLR inputs. How do you plan on using that with a 1/4" phone adapter?

What you are trying to can be done. But we need better details to enable us to give you accurate advice.

I have no clue what a "TSF" connector is, and Hosa does not define it, either. Maybe it is a typo?
I would not buy any connector or adapter described as "TSF" without a definition of what "TSF" means.
 
Hi. The source is a hand held mic and wireless intercom system. It was a year ago when I saw it. All I know is it has a 1/4 inch audio out on the back. I did plug into it last year with my Zoom recorder and was happy with the results. This year when I return I want to be able to add a splitter to it so I can use my Zoom and HMC150. And yes I have connectors and adapters to hook up the 1/4 plug to my xlr inputs. That is not the problem.
I just want a good 1/4 inch splitter or Y adapter. I need a 1/4 male that splits into 2 1/4 females. I read in some reviews that with the Hoya you might experience a decrease in audio. I searched most of the sites and it looks like Hoya is the only brand I can find. I assume I would want the TRS balanced. I am not looking to get stereo feed. This is a one man speaker at a conference. No need for left and right stereo, mono is good enough. With the wireless intercom system they are using, I have no idea if it is balanced or unbalanced, so I assume the TRS Hoya splitter should be good enough. The mic level and line level I can adjust myself.
My main question and concern is if I should get the TS or TRS version Hoya splitter.Or if there is a better splitter out there by a different name?
What do you think?
Thanks for your help.
 
Assuming you mean "Hosa" and not a Georgetown university sports fan.

Nobody can answer the question about unbalanced (TS) vs balanced (TRS) because you don't know anything about your "hand held mic and wireless intercom system" I don't even know what that means.

There are way too many other unknowns here to allow a proper response.

The Hosa people replied and explained that "TSF" means Tip-Sleeve (i.e. unbalanced) Female.
 
When in doubt, just go for TRS, because if you have two devices both balanced, or like headphones, two unbalanced stereo devices - the splitter will work for both. With low level signals, the worst that can happen is that you will unbalance one device when connecting a TS jack. Even with two TS jacks, I'd still buy the 3 circuity splitter, because if you buy both types at some point, it will be easy to mix them up!

As for TFL - Some research convinced me that everything with this in a description had something to do with plastic - and then it clicked. I think it's Teflon, as in polytetrafluorethylene - which we usually abbreviate to PTFE,but I found some Japanese plastic products who called it TFL. Not conclusive, but the adaptors we're talking about are all that shiny, slippy plastic - as are all other kinds of connector I found labelled with TFL in the title. Maybe a copyright issue with Teflon? [h=3][/h]
 
Deer Film said:
Hi. The source is a hand held mic and wireless intercom system. It was a year ago when I saw it. All I know is it has a 1/4 inch audio out on the back. I did plug into it last year with my Zoom recorder and was happy with the results. This year when I return I want to be able to add a splitter to it so I can use my Zoom and HMC150. And yes I have connectors and adapters to hook up the 1/4 plug to my xlr inputs. That is not the problem.
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That is very much the problem ... unless you know exactly what you're dealing with at that audio output - balanced, unbalanced, stereo, mono - there is no way to know what the properly wired 1/4-to-XLR adapters would be that you should be using. The fact the adapter would physically fit into the jacks doesn't mean the signal is getting to the right place in proper phase and at the right levels. For example, you can buy a straight-thru wired 1/4 TRS to XLR cable (tip to pin 2, ring to pin 3, sleeve to pin 1) off the shelf in almost any music store but plugging that into a stereo 1/4 TRS line output on one end and an XLR mono mic input on the other would result in an acoustic mess. Just because a connector has a 1/4 hole in it means nothing.
 
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paulears said:
As for TFL...
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I don't understand what "TFL" has to do with any of this discussion? Did you mean "TSF"? There was no mention of "TFL" here until your post.

The Hosa people replied that by "TSF", they mean "Tip Sleeve Female". It is rather an unconventional acronym, undefined on their website, and apparently used nowhere else in the universe.
 
Somewhere in my research I must have started searching for the wrong thing, how odd.

Not sure what you mean about not retrieving or deliveringthe audio to an unbalanced connection.

A balanced audio connection plugged in to one side of the splitter and an unbalanced jack into the other side works as a split, but the one-piece ring and sleeve will short one leg to ground - leaving it functional but unbalanced. If the splitter is being used as a cominer, the same thing applies. The only potential problem is when a balanced jack is plugged into a unbalanced input where ring and sleeve are not connected together, when it reads as an open circuit - but that would happen without a splitter. My point (and practice for years) is always to wire any splitter, combiner or adaptor with three circuits just in case. Unbalanced inputs merely short two of the contacts - have I misunderstood what you're saying? I also note the OP is talking microphones - a jack connection carrying phantom can make a very nasty bang when it's unplugged with phantom power present. Balanced mics were carried on 3 circuit jacks years ago in PA applications, but the shorting process that happens when plugging in and out are not really suited to microphone circuits.
 
Not sure what you mean about not retrieving or deliveringthe audio to an unbalanced connection.
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The problem with using TRS cables/connectors for unknown sources and destinations is that a true balanced (i.e. not ground-referenced, such as a real transformer) signal on a TRS jack will present an open-circuit to a true TS unbalanced connector.

But, OTOH, an unbalanced cable with TS connectors at each end will work with any kind of source and destination. Although, to be sure, it will lack the advantage of a balanced transmission path with the attendant noise-rejection characteristics.

I am assuming that the 1/4 inch output connector from the "hand held mic and wireless intercom system" is presumably a self-powered receiver of some kind and free of phantom power. Of course we really have no idea what this device is, and apparently neither does "Deer Film".
 
I see what you mean now - as in a panel mounted socket wired only sleeve and tip, with an input source coming in on tip and ring. I've a suspicion that much modern kit that is unbalanced now seem to use the tip and ring, or tip and ring shorted to sleeve. I've got a few pieces of kit here that work fine without the ground connected - next time I open one up I'll see how they're wired.
 
Thanks Paulear and others for your kind words, and very helpful information and being patient. You answered my question perfect. I might not have put my thoughts down in the right words, but I am filming a conference center that has their own Handheld Wireless System with a mic. The place is 5 hours away so I don't know the exact name or style of the system they use. It might be a Shure of Audio-Technica handheld wireless system, I can't remember In the past when I plugged into the audio out feed (1/4 jack) in the back of their system and into my Zoom recorder, I received a PERFECT audio recording. Not any problems. I just wanted to split the audio signal so I can record with my Zoom and also another source and wanted to know what is a good connector to buy. I did not understand what TRS or TS was at the time. And connecting a feed from the 1/4 jack to my HMC150 XLR jack is also not a problem for me, as I have the proper gear that works for me for that. My only issue was to what kind of 1/4 jack to get. And I see now there are some other issues to see if this device is balanced or unbalanced. I assume balanced. I won't know until that day. I could always buy both connectors and try them out.
It is always fun to learn new things. Thanks again for helping. And yes I meant Hosa not Hoya. When I wrote my question, I had a lot of my plate, my wife is not feeling well and daughter had to go to the hospital. So again, thank you for being patient and helping. I see now that there is a lot of issues in choosing such a little splitter connector. Thanks again.
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FWIF, I've worked in pro-audio for 30+ years.. and never heard the term "TSF".
I know "PFL" stands for 'Pretty F---ing Loud'' though.
 
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