Oldboy

im amazed at how much praise this movie gets. i thought it was awful. but im also one of those people who hated mullholland drive. this movie, when it comes to how little i care about any of these characters, and when it comes to these kinds of "hey, let's just make this movie as ****ing crazy as possible, and have basically no bearing in any real, human, emotion, and then add a shitload of shockvalue to it to make people excited over nothing" films, i have no respect for them. there is basically nothing going on with this movie, and unless in korea, there is a totally different range of human emotion and feeling about people sleeping with your sister, or that sex is such a feared object that people should litteraly, suffer beyond anything, is just insane to me, and based in a totally unrealistic and sickening world, devoid of basically anything human - and for me at least, at a very basic level, that is not interesting or revolutionary to explore that world.
i will say that the kafka-esque beginning was very interesting, but i wish that the REASON he was being held was a lot more interesting.
 
wow

wow

stufferino. wow. "no real human emotion"? I felt that movie dealt with the human emotion of loss better than any movie I've seen in years.

And as far as this movie not existing in the real world, yeah, no ****. But I bet I can come up with a movie that you liked that didn't "exist in the real world". How real was Silence Of The Lambs? Bet you liked that.
 
OK, so you dont know how people live in other parts of the world? Aparently were all the same and act alike? shock vaule that was one of the least most shocking asian film i seen in a while. need i mind you only 8 people die in the movie and or so we think cant really tell about a 2 of them. You not finind the ending impressivie means you have huge values. you must like the most off the wall films but subtle films. Im confused by you. insest is always frown upon but the thing is they didnt care. i mean come on man. you must have weird standards in films. ignore his post people, this movie is interesting you will find it beautiful as a narrative and colors and cinematograpghy if not the story.
 
Hmm...interesting take there stufferino. But imho, perhaps you have missed the point of the film yeah? I agree it's pretty crazy and personally, I feel this film is trying to be clever more than being emotive. That said, the emotions are actually there, except perhaps you find too incredible to relate to them. The feeling of loss, the need for revenge, the emptiness of the endeavor, the regret of the father etc. Are these not real human emotions? Perhaps you would be enjoy a documentary better...or try the hallmark channel for a change. :P
 
c.g. eads: im touched that you think silence of the lambs is my favorite film, but strangely enough, i have a little bit more of a seasoned taste. by far, my favorite director working today is wong kar-wai, and silence of the lambs, in terms of an emotional kick, and the "real world," comes nowhere close to say, In the Mood for Love. also, for emotional kick, bicycle thief is probably up there for heavy emotion.

hiderocketdive: haha, u hit the nail on the head. i do love documentary film, like wiseman or the maysles brothers, salesman if you havent seen it.

spidey: thank you for telling people to ignore my post, although i do find it a little offensive, maybe my opinion is too far-fetched. but to say i only enjoy off the wall art films, sadly, would not be a fair interpretation. another one of my all-time-favorites is fight club, which is brilliant, in terms, not only of "damn, that graphic was ****ing awesome!" but also, "the ideas in this movie are incredibly challenging and interesting." (the cinematography in Oldboy, i agree, was beautifully done.)

all in all, yes, maybe my own scope of emotion is the problem, but i dont think most people have dealt with anything as far-fetched as the emotions felt in Oldboy. and, i do think maybe that it was going for clever over anything real, but i still feel that the world the film paints is bleak and heartless which is basically a copout. and the characters, are all grossly mixing complexity. (how the **** could this guy lock someone up for that long a time over something so small?!) basically, if anyone besides Quentin had been judging Cannes, who -- all you QT fans dont take offense cause he's an awesome director-- has an eternal hardon for any and all asian cinema, that year, i dont think Oldboy would have had a chance to win the second best prize.
 
Stufferino, I was about to defend your post regarding Oldboy. Certainly the movie is over-the-top, certainly the plot is a little hard to swallow, and it could even be said that the beautiful compositions and coyly winking play with film form (the fight scene comes to mind) merely distance the viewer from the coldly cruel and pessemistic plot.

Then you had to go and write that your favorite movie was The Bicycle Thief. I'm sorry, but that's the second most boring movie I've ever seen, and I've seen an Andy Warhol movie (third most boring.) The only thing it stole was my attention span. Look, I know it was pretty well made, and Italian Neo-Realism was a cool and unbelievably influential concept, but--despite all the love it gets--it's just not that interesting.

I've seen a Wiseman documentary and some Maysles brothers stuff. Definitely interesting work. But here's the thing: everything you've listed as brilliant has pretentions to "reality." Italian Neo-Realism was all about non-professional actors, shooting on location, plots of coincidence and repetition and variation. Cinema Verite is very similar: the idea that the film maker records (Wiseman) or prods then records (Maysles bros) is ALL about what is real. Oldboy (and the BRILLIANT Silece of the Lambs) are all about melodrama, and going beyond what is real into what is fantastic and exciting. Visually and in terms of their narrative, they ask you to believe the impossible, because it's so interesting. They make no pretentions to reality.

Certainly I can understand how you don't like the movie (Mulholland Dr. is about a "dream world"--no reality there), but I feel bad for you that you allow your desire for "reality" to cloud your judgement. All movies are fake, it's just how much fake you can accept that dictates what you like. Clearly you have taste in movies, but--seriously--try to suspend your disbelief and be drawn in by the fantastic. You'll enjoy it more than you think (or not, but there are always documentaries and more Italian Neorealism for you.) To be fair, I'll even give Neorealism another try. Although I doubt I'll enjoy it (as you may not enjoy Oldboy.)
 
i mean if theres a movie to hate that would be super cross or deuce bigalow male gigalo OLDBOY is good just when you realize it's fiction.
 
stufferino said:
basically, if anyone besides Quentin had been judging Cannes, who -- all you QT fans dont take offense cause he's an awesome director-- has an eternal hardon for any and all asian cinema, that year, i dont think Oldboy would have had a chance to win the second best prize.
Click to expand...


But it did, So I'm sorry.

see what else it won...


Bangkok International Film Festival

Year Result Award Category/Recipient(s)
2005 Won Golden Kinnaree Award Best DirectorChan-wook Park
Tied with Christophe Barratier for Choristes, Les (2004).

Nominated Golden Kinnaree Award Best Film
Chan-wook Park


Bergen International Film Festival

Year Result Award Category/Recipient(s)
2004 Won Audience Award Chan-wook Park


British Independent Film Awards

Year Result Award Category/Recipient(s)
2004 Won British Independent Film Award Best Foreign Film


Cannes Film Festival

Year Result Award Category/Recipient(s)
2004 Won Grand Prize of the Jury Chan-wook Park

Nominated Golden Palm Chan-wook Park


Catalonian International Film Festival, Sitges, Spain

Year Result Award Category/Recipient(s)
2004 Won Best Film Chan-wook Park

José Luis Guarner Critic's Award Chan-wook Park


European Film Awards

Year Result Award Category/Recipient(s)
2004 Nominated Screen International Award Chan-wook Park
Korea/Japan.

Grand Bell Awards, South Korea

Year Result Award Category/Recipient(s)
2004 Won Grand Bell Award Best Actor Min-sik Choi

Best Director Chan-wook Park

Best Film Editing Sang-Beom Kim

Best Lighting unknown

Best Music Yeong-wook Jo


Hong Kong Film Awards

Year Result Award Category/Recipient(s)
2005 Won Hong Kong Film Award Best Asian Film
South Korea.

Stockholm Film Festival

Year Result Award Category/Recipient(s)
2004 Won Audience Award Chan-wook Park



Sounds like it did something right.
 
hey stufferino,

I am a big Wong Kar Wai fan as well! The emotions in his films are always hidden behind the facets of each character's attitude. Always implied, never shown right in your face. Nice. I love stuff like that. They make me rethink my oriental roots (ok, the country i live in is rather close to HK, in terms of national experiences)

But then again, i wouldn't go into the cinema expecting same sort of subtlety and artful representation of emotions from all the films that I am about to watch. True, OldBoy's pretty over the top, bizzarre and crazy. But I enjoy it because I see what I expected of it. To speak the truth, if there are sections in the film that tries to show the "real emotions", i think they'd all stick out like a sore thumb. I enjoy it like i enjoy THE MATRIX, not ITMFL. Each film tries to depict a different side of looking at this world.So i m pretty ok with a psychotic, pessimistic interpretation once in a blue moon. :)

So, if you only want real stuff...forget even the HALLMARK channel. I've an even better suggestion: go get yourself a security camera and hook it up to the CCTV and there you are, the REAL WORLD. Somemore it's in realtime. ;p lol, sorrie, no offence intended. -_-
 
okay, thank you all for at least taking me seriously. rarely i even get that opportunity.

policar: touhced that you would have thought to defend me, but for anyone that hates the bicycle thief, id prefer you not to! (haha) honestly, no matter what anyone says, the bicycle thief is a heart-wrenching portrait of hardship and loss, and no one could convince me otherwise. the scene in the restaurant?! SO BRILLIANT! Also love Open City. Yes, Mullholland Drive is a dream movie but a totally stupid one. A movie that is built to PURPOSELY confuse the viewer i have no respect for. and then when you have to spend hours of time thinking about it, or have to read many synopses and reviews to even try to get at what it's talking about, and then when you have finally boiled it down it comes to basically the same pointless confusion. but ive gotten off track, mullholland dr. isnt worth talking about.

i think that my point eventually boils down to, if a film takes the liberty to be fantastic and surreal, it needs to take up the counterweight by challenging it's audience with interesting ideas. Oldboy was grossly lacking in this category. although it started out very intelligently with this unjustified imprisonment, which really did remind of something out of Kafka, the reason for the imprisonment felt totally unrealistic and idiotic. once we got past the imprisonment, the movie died on its feet. screenwriter threw in some totally irrelevant killing, although shot beautifully, and a truly sickening outcome which is also, when it comes down to the heart of it, irrelevant and outrageous. the movie's only challenging idea was "how much more awful can people be to each other?" and in that way becomes totally and utterly unrealistic and stupid.

spidey, yes, critics thought that it was an impressive film. compared to most of the schlock that hollywood puts out it IS an impressive film, but for people that spend their time online talking about films with some intelligence, (the present company included), this film really isnt that interesting compared to the everyhting above hollywood crap.

anyone going to agree with me?

hiderocketdive, haha, a security camera might be a little dull...no sound and all. yes, i guess that this is more comparable to The Matrix than ITMFL, but even the matrix had serious and interesting philsophical implications behind, (go read Socrates' Allegory of the Cave and you'll be blown away). what im saying here is that Oldboy, IMO, greatly lacked anything interesting behind it, and thus, getting all of this praise is totally unwarranted.
 
thats your opinion and it well know but to say its **** is dumb. its fiction it supsense of reality. sorry the movie didnt wow you but he guess what he'll probably win a golden Lion for Sympathy for Lady Vengence. And i rutting for him. I'm a Wong Kar Wai fan as well but guess what there a great artist out there that use this medium know as film differently uoi cant seem to grasp it.and to have the matrix show up in this fiolm thread is amusing. that movie seires feel off as soon as it got in mid air. It tried to hard. this movie did wat it was suppose telling an interesting story about revenge and the whole point is revenge is stupid thats why he making this triology of films to says its stupid. it may be far fetched for you but oh well IM SORRY GO WATCH SOMETHING ELSE.
 
like i said only 4 people are seen truley murdered in the kill the rest are either said of or thought to be dead. to say this movie is nothing but shock is funny.
 
"Interesting philosophical implications?" Meh...not buying it. To be honest, I thought the Matrix was pretty silly and any philosophical pretentions were just there to make you buy in to a contrived plot. Did it work? Yes--I loved the movie, but don't go arguing that "the Matrix is so deep because they make references to literary works" because, so what? I could quote a bunch of philosophy in a terrible movie and it wouldn't be any "deeper." In fact, the second and third Matrix movies proved that. But I still loved the first one. A lot.

Still, I honestly think Oldboy had some fascinating ideas about humanity that it didn't rip off from other sources--or at least it approached them differently. It explored what extremes people would go to when they themselves have been pushed to the extremes of the human experience. Sure, it's not realistic, but is dodging bullets so realistic either? I suppose it's a matter of what genre you prefer, but it bugs me when anyone refuses to buy into a movie (no matter how ridiculous) because they feel they are "above it" or above its genre. Also, does a movie have to pretend to be "intellectual" for someone to enjoy it? I'd hope not. I loved The Rock, Die Hard, and Jaws and I feel bad for anyone who refuses to see them for what they are and what value they have.

And, yes, I've read the Allegory of the Cave... Interesting, I guess, but I don't see how it's so directly related to the Matrix more than any other permutation of the monomyth. Definitely check out The Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell in relation to Star Wars (original trilogy) and The Matrix, by the way, since it deals with similar stuff and George Lucas obsessed over it before writing the original trilogy. It may also interest you since the Allegory of the Cave is nothing but a stripped down version of the monomyth. As is Star Wars. As is the Matrix. Even T S Eliot's The Wasteland is a version of the monomyth and I dug the hell out of it even without understanding a single sentence or allusion. Seriously Joseph Campbell is amazing. Read it because it'll make you re-think this whole "I like such and such a movie because it has philosophy and makes me look smart" thing since it shows that it's not these "deep ideas" which appeal so universally, but meanings behind them which guide the progression of a normal human life from one stage to the next. Did you really enjoy Neo's rejection of "The Matrix" since it paralleled the Buddha's rejection of the material world and then you got excited thinking about that, or did you enjoy it since the theme of transcending the material world is just cool, no matter where it comes from? I enjoyed it because it was cool, and I liked the explosions. I'll be honest.

And the Bicycle Thief probably is a brilliant movie. I mean, the on location shots are great, the way it seemed "real" was very impressive, and it obviously influenced a lot of the greats. Nice cinematography, too. I just wasn't entertained or particularly interested by it. But I'll still accept that it's a well-made movie.
 
Oops...i shouldn't have brought in THE MATRIX. my bad, my bad. Let's stick to OLDBOY. Yes, revenge is dumb. But i wonder why Park needs to make a trilogy to get the point across? I thought Sympathy For Mr. Revenge already makes this point pretty clear.
 
erm Spidey, perhaps shock level is not described by the number of fatalities. I was more shocked watching tanks crushing protestors in front of Tian An Men Square than thousands of soldiers dropping dead while charging towards enemy trenches in WW1.
 
but what is shockin about the movie? he keeps saying it was trying to shock? ASIAN EXTREME FILMS usually have high fatality and to the highest point of grossness to achieve shock. for instants ICHI THE KILLER shows a guy masterbating and climaxing while he slices people in half. thats much more shocking compare to this film. I think the film is beautiful about how easy it is for man to become a monster over such a small or large thing. It can happen easily. I wasnt shocked by the film except the limits they have push the man to find out why this happen to him. i think it was done well just some people dont want to enjoy it. seems most people have found something to like about it. I've shown to many and they thought was awesome. the story is good and the visuals are good and the music is good. the reason he is making a revenge trilogy because each story is a different way peopel deal with revenege. but overall he wants people to realize it not rewarding even though you thing its justed cause.
 
I just don't get it. i've seen almost every single movie that's come out in the last 5 years, and this movie felt so original to me. I don't know. Maybe it was the Korean angle. But not one SINGLE original idea?? And i know you disqualified Matrix, but I think it's important that you mentioned it. Because I bet you can name a dozen movies in your top 100 that don't have a single orignal idea in them. Go ahead, name your top 12. Let us decide just how original they are. I think your analysis falls victim to "i didn't like THIS movie" syndrome. You didn't like the movie so you feel you have to have a reason. You search for the reason, state the reason, even though you don't apply that same reasoning to other movies that you like. Movies like The Matrix. Movies like Fight Club (a single schizophranic person has the ability to blow up an entire city. VERRRRRY realistic).

You didn't like the movie. Why? Cause you just didn't like it. That's why.
 
cg eads is on my good side :) PS FIGHT CLUB is my favorite american film and my favortie american director david fincher. Chan wook Park is my favorite koreandirector and my favorite korean film are his.
 
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