Old problem HDV to SD

[Norseman]

Hey All,

I'm sure I'm not the first but here's my deal.

I have and HDV project that I am trying to get to SD on a DVD using FCP 6 and DVDSP.

...what do I do to get the best quality. I've used costum setting to get the 1440x1080 to a 720x486 but have interlacing (stairstep) issues.

What are the steps to get the best looking SD from HDV?

Thanks!

 

[Demistate]

There are all kinds of issues you're going to be running into when trying to get a good downconvert:

• scaling: FCP and Premiere Pro tend to do a very draft quality downsampling.
• color space conversion: HD is Rec.709, DVD is REC.601. The NLE does not do a color space conversion when encoding.
• 3:2 puilldown or other interlacing issues: If your footage is stored in a 3:2 pulldown you'll need to remove it when encoding.

There isn't a one piece of software easy solution that I've seen for a high quality down-convert. Contact a professional compressionist if you have the cash or just live with a not so great quality downconversion.

Check the links in my signature if you want more pictures of what I'm talking about.

 

[JeganRX]

There are all kinds of issues you're going to be running into when trying to get a good downconvert:

• scaling: FCP and Premiere Pro tend to do a very draft quality downsampling.
• color space conversion: HD is Rec.709, DVD is REC.601. The NLE does not do a color space conversion when encoding.
• 3:2 puilldown or other interlacing issues: If your footage is stored in a 3:2 pulldown you'll need to remove it when encoding.

There isn't a one piece of software easy solution that I've seen for a high quality down-convert. Contact a professional compressionist if you have the cash or just live with a not so great quality downconversion.

Check the links in my signature if you want more pictures of what I'm talking about.

True about the scaling (sadly), though compressor does a good job from what I've used of it (on Windows here). As for the colorspace, I know 709 is typically associated with HD formats, though I have seen the vast majority of commercial DVDs encoded in 709 (presumably simply downscaled from HD master, with no colorspace conversion) according to the MPEG2 streams.

Technically he doesn't *need* to remove the pulldown, though it is highly preferrable. Also if he edited on a 60i timeline, he may have 60i transitions, despite his footage merely being telecined, thus preventing a proper inverse telecine for final delivery.

 

[Norseman]

Thanks guys.

I've been searching my butt off trying to find the best way to do this and frankly I'm getting a bit ticked off about it.

There's gotta be a "here's the best way to do it" system on all editors. It's been a few years now people should have this down. I even read a thread where a guy says "whatever works best for you" as if this was trying on a new brand of shoes or something...this is filmmaking! I'm sorry, I'm getting off track. I find it hard to beleive that there isn't a SET set of steps to output (even if it's not 100% perfect)....

So there are compresionist out there? What is it you do that FCP or compresor can't? Is it another program you use? Or do you just have the skinny on these?

I will try removing the pull down and see what happens. Thanks again.

 

[Amr Rahmy]

There are all kinds of issues you're going to be running into when trying to get a good downconvert:

• scaling: FCP and Premiere Pro tend to do a very draft quality downsampling.
• color space conversion: HD is Rec.709, DVD is REC.601. The NLE does not do a color space conversion when encoding.
• 3:2 puilldown or other interlacing issues: If your footage is stored in a 3:2 pulldown you'll need to remove it when encoding.

1st, what happens when you work the file as the native format, finish the project and send it to compressor, it should give you a nice result.

2nd, if compressor fails, and the resulting color or scaling was not up to par(considering that you set everything right in compressor), you could go extreme, going either uncompressed quicktime or tiff image sequence fom fcp to something like photoshop, adjust color and scale in photoshop(best for reduction)(you can't complain about the resulting scaling after that).

 

[Demistate]

There's gotta be a "here's the best way to do it" system on all editors.... (even if it's not 100% perfect)....

Compressing an HD 709 source down to an SD 601 source just by using the tools in the NLE doesn't give great results. It's up to you to evaulate if the output is up to you or your client's standards.

If you had to do it with just compressor I'd do the following to go to DVD:

See if Compressor handles the interlacing properly with a 30 second clip, if it doesn't you'll have to de-interlace every clip on the timeline
Output to Mpeg-2 at a 2-pass VBR average 7mbps. Select the same framerate as your base clip.
Stereo AC-3 Audio at 192K

Even if you do all of this, the scaling wont be perfect, and more than likely the color space conversion won't be correct, but you'll have something to show on DVD.

So there are compresionist out there? What is it you do that FCP or compresor can't? Is it another program you use? Or do you just have the skinny on these?

I'm a professional compressionist for Volition-Inc/THQ Inc, and I currently Freelance for people at DVXUser for a reduced rate than what I would normally charge.

What sets apart the tools that I use from the NLE is:

• Proper Color space conversion
• High quality Scaling (with splines, or lancos filters, depending on weather or not your down or up scaling)
• 24P 3:2 pulldown, 24PA pulldown, 29.97i to 60P conversions
• Custom Matrix adjustments for Mpeg-2 (to ensure a high quality encode to a lower bitrate to maximize disc space)
• picture cleanup/grain removal/local constrast adjustments
• CCD Shift Cleanup (If you zoom in closely to a 3 ccd camera, sometimes the pixel shift doesn't look right on 45degree angle lines)
• Knowledge of Standards compliance

You can just output some video straight from your NLE and publish it. But if you want to go to market with your materials you'll want to get the highest quality output possible. Check out Dillon Novak's music video. I was able to take his HVX200 footage and make it look like it was shot on an F900.

Remember, the cleaner the source the better it will look on low bandwith streaming services like Youtube/Vimeo/Myspace etc.

If you want to see what I can do for your footage, Send me a PM or Email and I can set up an FTP for you to send me a 30 second clip, and i'll give you an encoding sample, You can compare it to your output and see if you're happy with it.