Oktava MK012. Thumbs up or down as a hypercardiod?

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Danny1280

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Watching the Barry Green sound video, the low-cost setup they recommend for indoor booming includes the Oktava MK012. There are posts on DVXuser that tout it as a great option. But then Other forums seem to say there are serious handling noise problems, and even internal wind noise, from boom movement, that make it unusable.

I'm hoping to spend about $300 on a hyper cardiod for inside booming of talking audio.

For reference, here are two opposing threads:
Pro oktava:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?51526-New-To-Audio-Read-This-First-Please&highlight=oktava

Anti oktava:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/post...-oktava-mc-mk-012-oktavamod-loc-dialogue.html

Can anyeone help clarify the confusion????

Thanks, Dan
 
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I've got a pair of them but mostly just use them to stereo mic acoustic stringed instruments. I know some people claim to have gotten good sounds from mic'ing choirs with pairs of them, but I find it hard to believe based on how it sounds on my own voice. 1/2" diaphram condensers just weren't made for the human voice. Nothing sounds as full even from a distance on voices as a big ribbon mic, but then you're certainly not talking about hyper cardiod.

I wouldn't put any stock whatsoever in anything said at Gearslutz.
 
Your "anti-Octava" thread doesn't really deliver on the "anti" part, IMHO.

It says that there are better mics. That is true.
But they are also significantly more expensive, so no particular surprise there.

It says that the MK-012 is more physical-noise sensitive than the alternatives.
Also true, but the significant cost difference remains.
And there are quite practical (cost and operational) ways to work around this.

Can you get better performance from more expensive mics? One would hope so.
Can you get very good performance out of Oktava MK-012? Yes, if you use a bit of care.

I don't have quite the blanket negative opinion of gearslutz as swoopie,
but remember that they are not generally talking about video/cine production sound.

I also have a pair of MK-012s with all three capsules. Like swoopie,
I also primarily use them for choral/orchestral location music recording.
But I also use the hyper capsule for indoors boom production.
 
swoopie said:
I wouldn't put any stock whatsoever in anything said at XXXXXXXXX.
Click to expand...

It's good forum etiquette not to discuss/name other forums.

That said, it is a decent mic, but it really cannot replace a good/decent shotgun. Even with the hyper capsule on, you will not get any real side cancellation. Simple physics.
 
Yes, of course a hyper-cardioid can never replace a "shotgun" microphone when used outdoors.
But when used indoors, a "shotgun" mic is rarely as effective as a hypercardioid (Oktava or otherwise.)
 
swoopie said:
I know some people claim to have gotten good sounds from mic'ing choirs with pairs of them, but I find it hard to believe based on how it sounds on my own voice. 1/2" diaphram condensers just weren't made for the human voice.
Click to expand...

Ummm... SDCs (small-diaphragm condensers) are pretty much the "standard" for classical (including, of course, choir and orchestra) recording... you are comparing close-micing your voice with distant-micing a choir; these are very different situations that need very different mic choices...!
 
It must be a preference thing, Richard. I have used a "decent" pencil mic w/hyper on an indoor set before, and never achieved the directionality and side cancellation I wanted, like with a shottie. Very well could have been my technique, though.

Ummm... SDCs (small-diaphragm condensers) are pretty much the "standard" for classical (including, of course, choir and orchestra) recording... you are comparing close-micing your voice with distant-micing a choir; these are very different situations that need very different mic choices...!
Click to expand...
Ullanta, you got that right! SDC's were not meant for close miking vocals. The sibilance and plosives kill 'em.
 
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Howdy Doc! i always send a little wave when I see your tag... even if it never gets past the air around me!
 
you are comparing close-micing your voice with distant-micing a choir; these are very different situations that need very different mic choices...!
Click to expand...

I don't know much about choirs. I know that for sound stage work in theater, a pair of old ribbon mics works wonders because they can still retain a full sound at a distance. I miss my old RCA BK-11. It sounded just as full from four feet away as it did from six inches.
 
To be honest, I'm not that crazy about my MK012 mics. They can be a little nasal sounding up close on guitar in a X-Y configuration. I've had better luck just using one at the neck joint and a 1" condenser over the shoulder.

I don't have the omni caps for the Octavas though. I would like to hear one in mono with the omni cap sometime too because I do a lot of layering, so mic'ing in mono works out better most of the time for me.
 
Danny1280 said:
I'm hoping to spend about $300 on a hyper cardiod for inside booming of talking audio.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how this thread got into choir recording, instruments or anything else given that the original question concerned inside booming of dialogue.

My 2 cents - for the money it's hard to beat the Oktava when it's properly used in that situation.
As Richard already pointed out, yes there are mics that are more expensive and will do a better job - but they had better...given that they're more expensive.

I've used the Okatava on nearly every indoor shoot I've had for the past year or so at least - and I've been happy with it.
As far as it being prone to handling noise, etc - just make certain it is properly isolated.
Either that - or get a better boom op.

My boom op rarely causes any handling noise... I bought him used for about $75.
(I use a C-stand most of the time)
:)
 
Luis Caffesse said:
My boom op rarely causes any handling noise... I bought him used for about $75.
(I use a C-stand most of the time)
:)
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Ouch! Replaced by a bunch of tubes and welded metal. Next time I see a C-stand, I am gonna kick it on behalf of boom-ops everywhere. And if I break my toe.......I will blame you Luis.:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
 
To be fair I'm mainly shooting interviews.... hence the stand holding the boom
(I'm not about to ask a boom op to stand there for an hour straight).

:)
 
Thanks to all for the info, and to Luis for getting back to original question.

So I'm getting from this forum that it's a good-for-the-money solution as long as it's handled properly and/or isolated.

So my follow-up question: With good isolation (Rycote BBG, Windjammer, K-Tek Shockmount) and inexperienced-but-learning handling of the boom, how much wind/handling noise to you estimate I'll get. Not concerned with the on-the-stand interview situations. Moreso with the indoor groups and swinging the boom around to reach people.

On a side note, I rented a Schoeps Hyper this weekend (with a softie). Along with the inside dialogue, I did some outside recording of birds in the woods for atmosphere. Needless to say, the outside recordings sounded great. Does anyone know how the Oktava would compare in that situation with the above isolation in light wind, both in terms of handling/wind noise and the clarity of sound? (I realize we're comparing a toyota to a bmw here, but just to get an idea...)

Since I'm doing long-term shooting on a project, renting isn't financially viable, hence my reason to want to buy.

Thanks again!
 
And one more follow-up question: Does anyone have experience with the modification people are doing to the Oktava? Does it help with the wind/handling sensitivity, or is it only for improving the sound quality?
 
I will say this: My sound man has one it sounds okay but the build is suspect. I recently had to retap all the screw holes as they were stripped from everyday use.
 
I've been pleased with my Oktava/hyper for indoor dialogue. While I have the baby ball gag and dead cat for it, I don't use the mic outdoors, just inside. The omni capsule has worked well for recording instruments for a music bed to a piece recently.
 
phudsontx said:
I will say this: My sound man has one it sounds okay but the build is suspect. I recently had to retap all the screw holes as they were stripped from everyday use.
Click to expand...

What kind of everyday use is stripping which screw holes??? The only time one would ever touch the screws is when performing mods or repairs… I'm confused!

I have six mk012s that have been in near-daily use for over a decade… never a problem with any of them! And the look like new! Maybe your sound guy has a bad Chinese knockoff? That needs daily screwing?
 
Danny1280 said:
the low-cost setup they recommend for indoor booming includes the Oktava MK012. There are posts on DVXuser that tout it as a great option. But then Other forums seem to say there are serious handling noise problems, and even internal wind noise, from boom movement, that make it unusable.

Thanks, Dan
Click to expand...

Even the most expensive microphone can capture unusable sound in the wrong hands!

With that said, add a BBG & dead cat to the Oktava and perfect your booming technique.

Good Luck!

Dave
 
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