Oh man... here 'goes

M

m2spro

New member
New to this forum, this is a shared account between my 2 friends and me, who are just graduating highschool and are taking a year off, saving and building a portfolio, hopefully to follow up with film school next year!
Now, about that portfolio, we're all taking on different roles relevant to our passions in the film industry. I myself am taking the plunge into audio recording / post production / scoring. Quite a bit on my plate I realize, but I feel that I should be capable. Right now I'm just planning out my budget, and had a few questions, some specifically to the article by Jeremy Ordan.
Before I begin, I'd like to say that we're using multiple cameras, and I'm assuming it would be a good idea to record sound to an external digital recorder.

I guess we'll start with that. I've looked at many audio recording devices. I started with the sound devices 722, but quickly realized that was very much out of my budget :S
I next moved on to the Fostex FR-2LE. Many people speak highly of this recorder, saying it was a very good place to start. I was on the verge of buying this, when I heard about the Zoom H4n. Slightly less expensive, meaning I'd be able to put more money into the microphone(s) I'd be using. I was thinking of using an external microphone hooked up to it, and using the onboard stereo microphones to pick up ambient noise. Has anyone tried this? I'm very skeptical about using onboard microphones on a $400 device, but from what I've read, it seems practical?
I understand that the Oktava MK-012 is rather good for shooting indoors, I've read a lot on this microphone and have come to the conclusion that it also doubles very well for instrument recording. Maybe having 2 of these would be a good idea...? If I chose not to buy the Zoom H4n, would these also be better for picking up ambience?

Wow, we're nearly done here. Jeremy Ordan also mentioned that the Rycote BBG, Rycote softie, and K-tek KSSM are very good for mounting and windscreening. I've read reviews on them, and he obviously speaks the truth. I was, however, wondering if I could substitute ALL of these for a Rode Blimp? It appears to cover all those areas, and is around the same price? What would be the ups / downs of both?

Finally, we come to the last topic. Mixers / preamps. This is where I'm nearly useless. I assumed having a mixer on sight would be a good idea, but remember I'm one person that will be operating the boom, recorder, mixer, and preamp where applicable. Is it practical to buy one with 2 input recording? Is it absolutely necessary to have one? Jeremy's review didn't mention buying them, which leads me to believe that they aren't needed?

Alright, we're done. I certainly don't expect anyone to answer all those questions, and I definitely expect a few links to old threads that answer them in full, but from my brief searching, none of them quite gave me the information I was seeking.

IN SHORT: here are my questions.

Zoom H4n - With the low price, too good to be true? Should I go for something better?
Oktava MK-012 - Shooting indoors, recording ambience, and recording music (pianos, guitars, etc.) for scoring. Which caps would I need? Is this microphone practical for all 3 applications?
Rode Blimp - Good enough to replace mount, BBG, and softie?
Mixer / Preamp(s) - Necessary? If so, how much should I be spending on them IN PROPORTION to the microphones / recorder? If I use a $500 shotgun microphone, will I need a $500 mixer / preamp?

Any help is very much appreciated. Thank you so much for your time, and feel free to refer me to alternate threads.

EDIT: My shotgun microphone is a Rode NTG-1
 
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If I were to buy the C 391 B, as well as the CK 92 + CK 93 caps, would that cover the applications I'm looking at?
 
Of course, you would also have to get the SE300B Power Module for the ck92 and ck93 caps. Although I understand that the price of the Octava may have gone up, I think the AKGs still cost a bit more.
 
Right, what kwoff just said. I think B&H has the SE300B + a capsule for around $360 right now, and the Oktava is $260? This both might be off by a few dollars.

The Rode Blimp, from what I can tell, should cover everything. I just ordered one from dvestore (http://www.dvcreators.net/dvestore/). I haven't received it yet, but ordering was a pleasure and Guy answered any of my questions.
 
The Fostex FR2-LE and the Marantz PDM 660 or 670 are good choices. The Zoom is okay, but not as rugged and the mic pres are definitely inferior compared to the Fostex and the Marantz. Some production sound guys like it as an inexpensive back-up device and post guys keep it in their pocket or glove compartment for quick capture of sounds.
 
My 3 cents:

http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/FR-2LE_upgrades.html

To get clean recordings (no hiss) on these low cost recorders you need to buy a new but modified unit for Oade Brothers. Otherwise you'll need a clean mixer sending line in signal to the recorder to get clean recordings. There's no way out. Even if you use a mixer up front a modified unit it's still worth the small extra cost. Me - I like the Tascam HD-P2 best. I have the Marantz PDM 671 and it works great - but I don't like the menu system too well. The Tascam gives the most bang for the buck in low cost recorders.

The Oktava MK-012 microphone will give you great recordings. It has been compared with the Schoeps mic, that says something of it's sonic quality. Get the Rycote BBG ball for it (this is mandatory for practical functionality). You will also need a decent suspension system for the mic.

For your Rode Blimp you'll need a shotgun mic, The Rode NTG-3 will take you a long long way. It's comparable to the Sennheiser 416 but at a reduced price.

Get a good boom pole (Loon) http://loonaudio.com/index.php cables, headphone (I like the Yamaha Rh-5M $50.00, everyone else likes the Sony 7506 until they wear the Yamaha) get a bag (Petrol) and some software for audio (I like Adobe Audition but Pro Tools is the std & should be learned) editing and you'll be having some excellent fun!


Mixer --- good idea, but not 100% needed if you go the Oade route, but ....

My suggestion: Bite the bullet & get the SD 302. Most of these tools will take care of you for the next 20-30 years if you take care of them. They call this a sound investment. ;) Yes, this is spendy up front, but actually it's cost effective over the long haul and will save money, frustration and put you one step closer to your goal of creating excellence.

The kit above will be around $5000.00 minus software.
 
10s said:
My 3 cents:

....

The kit above will be around $5000.00 minus software.
Click to expand...

Oh man... keeping in mind i'm still in highschool working a part time job @ minimum wage. I'll be working full time through the summer, but $5000 is still quite hefty! Remember I'm not a professional by any stretch, but I'm merely buying equipment to build a portfolio for film school. Your advice is very helpful though, and I thank you many times over for it :)

However, for now i'm wondering, will the oktava fit inside the blimp, or will I have to purchase the BBG to use separately with it?

edit - forgot to add, I've already purchased Logic Studio (academic version of course), and I have a boom pole, as well as the shotgun microphone covered.
 
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Like 10s I also have the Marantz PMD671. I use it with a MixPre but in a number of tests I would have to say the pre's on the 671 are OK. There was a problem with the 670 and Marantz changed the firmware after the first round of 671 and that apparently cleaned them up a bunch. The first one I got had older firmware and I brought it back and A0 they let me keep it till a replacement came in and B) ordered me a replacement and also replaced all of their stock. Anyway, that said if I was buying today I would buy the Tascam. the reasons I use the Mixpre are the limiter, the metering, tones and I really like the pre. But I here the Tascam's pre's are good and I wouldn't have a problem if I had to use the Marantz's preamps.

The RODE zep should work for the Oktava also, it's very adjustable.

If your a one man show then you need a bag to put stuff in. I used a LOT of bags that were but designed for audio, and I modified them and.... Bite the bullet and get a protabrace (or equivalent) bag that is made for what you end up getting. It will seem like a ridiculously expensive item but having gone the other route all I can say is I wish I had skipped a few meals and gotten one at the start.

I have used the Oktava outside with good results, it all depends on how close you can get.

In terms of mixers, the MixPre is really a preamp with extras, the 302 is the cheapest "mixer" SD makes. I do mostly FX recording and some run and gun. If I'm doing something that requires more I use a mixer and BoomRecorder.

A general recommendation is to buy professional equipment as much as possible. It will last longer and is repairable (and worth repairing) and is not nec. a lot more money.
Oher sites for production audio are Jeff Wexlers site is good and has a lot of info and is heavily populated by professional mixers. That and the CAS board are good sources.

It's not unheard of for post folk to do production recording but post sound and scoring are a huge conflict in time and recourses. They are not unrelated but they are often somewhat opposite and they are both very time intensive if you do them right AND they are both typically happening at the same time. Having said that I do have a good friend who started off as a musician and does do all three on the same films, at lest for shorts, and does a great job, so it's not impossible.

As a rule of thumb (and this works quite well up and down the scale of production) to get a "Hollywood" sounding sound track it takes 10-15 man hours per screen minute in sound editorial (that means not counting the mix). Music is a different department (in a big picture) and so isn't figuted in to that number at all. Add a week or two for mixing, for a feature. Even on a short where your cutting every corner you can because of $ anything less that say 5 hours/ screen minute will show in the final. And you should add some time to that. I can get away more easily because I have a lot of experience and a really large sound library.
 
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