Odyssey 7Q + FS700 = 4K compressed & 2K RAW @ 240fps

Hey KCN,

It would be odd for most anyone to want to record 45min of 240fps. I think where it will become extremely beneficial is not having to wait between slowmo shots. I shoot a lot of pro surfing and have to make a decision on a regular basis to either shoot 120 or 240 depending on how long the average wave holds up in a session. Id much rather shoot 240fps all the time. I'm super stoked to get the 7Q up and running on my rig.

Best, Paul
 
Having an external slo-mo option will be amazing for sports. You can use the internal recording to record regular HD and then trigger record 240fps on the fly. Prior to the Odyssey I was imagining a two camera set up, using my FS700 as a B camera used only for slo-mo but now you can do it all off one camera.....the hilarious part is that the slo-mo will have a higher res than the footage shot using the FS700's SD card memory.
 
Dear Friends,

It is 100% accurate to say that with the updated FS700 plus an Odyssey7Q, we will be able to record (from the FS700) full resolution 2K Raw at 240 fps continuously (which equates to about 45 minutes of recording using two of our 960 GB SSD's).

Please note the "Full Resolution". This is not a "windowed sensor", this is not line skipping, nor half vertical resolution. And we will record the Raw data.

This is a major announcement, it may sound too good to be true, but it is true. We have been working a long time with Sony so that our two companies could work together. We got the final approval just before NAB.

It is our goal to have this ready for when the Odyssey7Q ships in late July. To give us a little leeway, one could say July/August timeframe.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
That definitely makes the FS700 a very interesting option...everything else required to get it up and running with that considered in the price of course.
 
Dan Keaton said:
Dear Friends,

It is 100% accurate to say that with the updated FS700 plus an Odyssey7Q, we will be able to record (from the FS700) full resolution 2K Raw at 240 fps continuously (which equates to about 45 minutes of recording using two of our 960 GB SSD's).

Please note the "Full Resolution". This is not a "windowed sensor", this is not line skipping, nor half vertical resolution. And we will record the Raw data.

This is a major announcement, it may sound too good to be true, but it is true. We have been working a long time with Sony so that our two companies could work together. We got the final approval just before NAB.

It is our goal to have this ready for when the Odyssey7Q ships in late July. To give us a little leeway, one could say July/August timeframe.

Respectfully,

Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
Click to expand...

Awesome! Two quick questions:

1. How much for an Odyssey7Q + FS700 recording ability?

2. Do you think the Odyssey7Q will record 50p or 60p at 4K or more likely max out at 4K 30p?

Thanks a lot.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Dan Keaton said:
Dear Friends,

It is 100% accurate to say that with the updated FS700 plus an Odyssey7Q, we will be able to record (from the FS700) full resolution 2K Raw at 240 fps continuously (which equates to about 45 minutes of recording using two of our 960 GB SSD's).

Please note the "Full Resolution". This is not a "windowed sensor", this is not line skipping, nor half vertical resolution. And we will record the Raw data.

This is a major announcement, it may sound too good to be true, but it is true. We have been working a long time with Sony so that our two companies could work together. We got the final approval just before NAB.

It is our goal to have this ready for when the Odyssey7Q ships in late July. To give us a little leeway, one could say July/August timeframe.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
Click to expand...

Dan, very much appreciate the input and i'm sure you'll be in the 700 forum soon enough clearing up questions and our potentially inaccurate random guesses.

May i ask - which part of the chain is responsible for downsampling the 4K sensor to 2K? It must be internal to the camera. I presume the camera is taking each RGB layer prior to debayering, downsampling and spitting out that as RAW to you. However i'm not sure that would work very well, at least not as well as debayering the 4K original then downsampling the debayered image. It worries me that this 2K isn't going to be as good as 2K from a 4K RAW source? Is it possible to tell us a bit about where this 2K is coming from?

Can you elaborate on the 4K options?

It sounds like you're unable to just record the 4K RAW image to drives?

many thanks
Paul
 
Dear Friends,

I will be traveling all night so I need more time to respond properly.


I do not know how the FS700 creates the 2K signal, sorry.


FS700 + Odyssey7Q means 4K up to 30 fps.

This may change in the future. But this is not a hint nor a promise.

Respectfully,



Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Dear Friends,

We actually plan on supporting Avid DNxHD in both MOV and MXF wrappers.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Hey Dan

I am wondering if the 7Q can receive two inputs from the same camera, in this case the fs700? One out from the HDMI which you could record at a let's say a 422, 50mbs codec and another from the SDI out at 2k 240fps which wud be used to capture slo-mo moments?

Just curious, thanks
 
What bit rate and file format for RAW?

What bit rate and file format for RAW?

What exactly are you defining as RAW when you say '2K Raw at up to 240 fps?' Your Odyssey7 Family Tech Specs say you can record 8/10/12-Bit up to 60p/60psf off of the SDI port. The Sony AXS-r5 can record up to 120fps 2K RAW with the f5 at 16-Bit and I believe this is delivered in .mxf files that you can export in different formats using the Sony RAW Viewer. My question is what Bit rate will you record RAW to on your Odyssey 7Q, 8/10/12/16? And will the file format be the .dng format your Specs list for HD/2K Raw?

Thank You,

7

Dan Keaton said:
Dear Friends,

'we will be able to record (from the FS700) full resolution 2K Raw at 240 fps continuously (which equates to about 45 minutes of recording using two of our 960 GB SSD's).

And we will record the Raw data.'

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
Click to expand...
 
True North said:
Hey Dan

I am wondering if the 7Q can receive two inputs from the same camera, in this case the fs700? One out from the HDMI which you could record at a let's say a 422, 50mbs codec and another from the SDI out at 2k 240fps which wud be used to capture slo-mo moments?

Just curious, thanks
Click to expand...

Dear TrueNorth,

We will examine your suggestion for possible incorporation into the Odyssey7Q. We definitely have the inputs to handle your suggestion.

We wll not be able to record it in a 50 Mbps codec, but another codec may be possible. Thus, we may be able to use Avid DNxHd or possibly another popular codec in the future.

I need to get the word out that everyone understands, that for working with the FS700, in order to be able to record the 2K Raw, or 4K, one must have the Odyssey7Q.

Also, the Odyssey7 cannot be upgraded to the Odyssey7Q. One must decide to purchase one model or the other.

The reason for this is to perfrom such an upgrade, we would have to replace the case, and the main board (which is the only circuit board), leaving just the OLED panel. Thus, we would have to replace two out of the three parts to perform an upgrade, and this is just not practical.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Jon7athan said:
What exactly are you defining as RAW when you say '2K Raw at up to 240 fps?' Your Odyssey7 Family Tech Specs say you can record 8/10/12-Bit up to 60p/60psf off of the SDI port. The Sony AXS-r5 can record up to 120fps 2K RAW with the f5 at 16-Bit and I believe this is delivered in .mxf files that you can export in different formats using the Sony RAW Viewer. My question is what Bit rate will you record RAW to on your Odyssey 7Q, 8/10/12/16? And will the file format be the .dng format your Specs list for HD/2K Raw?

Thank You,

7
Click to expand...



Dear Jon7athan,

We received final approval from Sony just before NAB. Our Tech Specifications were written before we obtained approval.

In order to avoid providing any misinformation, I will need to check with our engineers and the Sony spec's. I just do not have enough info right now to properly and accurately answer your question.

We record HD/2K Raw, from certain POV cameras in Cinema DNG. But, this does not mean that we have to record the FS700 2K Raw in Cinema DNG.

These details will come out as soon as practical.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Jon7athan said:
What exactly are you defining as RAW when you say '2K Raw at up to 240 fps?' Your Odyssey7 Family Tech Specs say you can record 8/10/12-Bit up to 60p/60psf off of the SDI port. The Sony AXS-r5 can record up to 120fps 2K RAW with the f5 at 16-Bit and I believe this is delivered in .mxf files that you can export in different formats using the Sony RAW Viewer. My question is what Bit rate will you record RAW to on your Odyssey 7Q, 8/10/12/16? And will the file format be the .dng format your Specs list for HD/2K Raw?

Thank You,

7
Click to expand...

Dear Jon7athn,

We will record the 2K raw into a Cinema DNG file. It will be uncompressed raw that we will be recording.

We need to obtain some documents from Sony before we can tell you the bit depth.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Dear Dan,

Thank you for quick response. 16 bit depth RAW would definitely give this option leg up on BMPC and quality not seen in the marketplace at this price point. Sony may want to reserve this for F5 & F55 Pro products. Look forward to Sony's response.

Thanks,

7
 
Dan

Just wondering if their has been any consideration to being able to record the higher frame rates that FS700 offers (480fps/960fps) at a higher than the native resolution offered. Maybe 480fps at 2K burst mode or even 1080p and 960fps at 1080p burst mode.

Not sure if it possible but thought I would ask.
 
True North said:
Dan

Just wondering if their has been any consideration to being able to record the higher frame rates that FS700 offers (480fps/960fps) at a higher than the native resolution offered. Maybe 480fps at 2K burst mode or even 1080p and 960fps at 1080p burst mode.

Not sure if it possible but thought I would ask.
Click to expand...

I dont believe thats possible, because the camera itself at that framerate is low resolution.

I could be wrong but i think thats why
 
I may have missed this, but it's my understanding that in order to function with the Odyssey 7Q, the FS700 requires a firmware and hardware upgrade first. Is this correct? If so, I wonder what Sony will charge for this?
 
Sony says the 4K firmware upgrade is free, however it cannot be done by end users. Thus Sony Service Center has to do it for you. Service center in Teaneck NJ - which I just came back from - charges $400 plus local tax. They say shipping is included, yet I have dropped off/picked up the camera by myself, and they still absolutely refused to lower the charge. Moreover, their charge is $135/hr, and it took less than an hour for the upgrade - but again, they clearly see this upgrade as cash cow, and wouldn't budge price-wise. This pricing sucks.

And guys, they apparently reset the camera, as all my menu customizations are gone after the upgrade.

On the other hand, I'm the happy owner of a 4K camera - now waiting on my pre-ordered Odyssey 7Q.
 
Last edited:
This is not an accurate representation.

Sony says the upgrade is free IF YOU BUY THE SONY 4K RECORDER. This means that they will discount the cost of the adapter back by $400 for clients who already own an FS700 and need to upgrade it to the 4K output. This is compared to clients purchasing new cameras with the upgrade free in the camera, who then do not receive the discount on the purchase of the recorder adapter.

So it is a $400 charge if you choose not to use the Sony recorder and instead buy an Odyssey7Q. That's how the deal works. Sony is covering lots of development and administrative costs. $400 is not going to net them a lot of cash, but it will defray some costs. This is not where the company makes its money.

PrimeHD said:
Sony says the 4K firmware upgrade is free, however it cannot be done by end users. Thus Sony Service Center has to do it for you. Service center in Teaneck NJ - which I just came back from - charges $400 plus local tax. They say shipping is included, yet I have dropped off/picked up the camera by myself, and they still absolutely refused to lower the charge. Moreover, their charge is $135/hr, and it took less than an hour for the upgrade - but again, they clearly see this upgrade as cash cow, and wouldn't budge price-wise. This pricing sucks.

And guys, they apparently reset the camera, as all my menu customizations are gone after the upgrade.

On the other hand, I'm the happy owner of a 4K camera - now waiting on my pre-ordered Odyssey 7Q.
Click to expand...
 
Mitch: who cares where Sony makes its money. However, I care where *my* money goes though.

Sony Teaneck center never asked me whether I already own, or wish to purchase, Sony recorder. So I have no information from Sony, even after the upgrade, that the cost of the upgrade could be deducted from the recorder purchase.

Now, my post was in response to Firstbase 's question specifically re. Odyssey 7Q. He said nothing about Sony 4K recorder.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top