Nothing from Panny?

sigamy said:
That is a good point. But I guess there is no place for indie film announcements. I wonder if it would have been better for BMD to announce at SXSW? Probably not as so far they have stole the show.
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Well, there is the Cine Gear Expo, but that does not get anywhere near the press coverage as the NAB show. If you look at BMD's total product line, including new products announced at NAB, there bread and butter is post work flow solutions. The new cameras are great, but I would bet that BMD's broadcast post gizmo sales really keeps the lights on at their headquarters.
 
vanvideo said:
No, the HPX5000 and the new, as yet unnamed Varicam are different cameras.
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In which case, do you know what the difference is between them.....?

Comparing the releases, the specs seem incredibly similar.... the only difference is that the 5000 doesn't specifically mention any Varispeed capability whilst the "Varicam" obviously does.

Does this mean that even though the 5000 is quoted about $28,000 (more like $35,000 with v'f etc) it won't do variable speed!?! And how much will the Varicam version be!?!
 
clint lealos said:
Panasonic was showing a little non functional 4K camcorder prototype in their booth today. It had a fixed lens and a small (1/3" or 1/2") CMOS sensor design. It would record to SDHC cards and cost around $8,000 according to the sales rep on the floor. He also said it would be alive until next NAB, but he seemed interested in hearing what people wanted. When I told him all I wanted was a GH3 in a AF-100 body, he said that was literally the 200th time he had heard that today... it was only 10:30am :) Maybe they will listen?
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I guess they don't….it is funny that the Pana rep admitted as such. I love my GH2, I wish it had better audio capabilities and I wish we could get a servo zoom on a DSLR….I now shoot interviews with my HVX200 and GH2 side by side.
I really use the HVX as an audio recorder and back up….the GH2 looks so much better. I just ordered 2 Black Magic pocket cams.
 
harddrive said:
In which case, do you know what the difference is between them.....?

Comparing the releases, the specs seem incredibly similar.... the only difference is that the 5000 doesn't specifically mention any Varispeed capability whilst the "Varicam" obviously does.

Does this mean that even though the 5000 is quoted about $28,000 (more like $35,000 with v'f etc) it won't do variable speed!?! And how much will the Varicam version be!?!
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Differences:
Varicam does 120 fps @ 1080p vs 60p for the 5000
It does 12-bit 4:4:4
It does Log and Film Rec.
And it wouldn't be much of a Varicam if it didn't do speed ramping.

That's it for now.
 
I guess they could get into the vogue business of making their own products obsolete before they even get them to market in quantity. That would do wonders for their bottom line.

Panasonic doesn't owe me anything, so I never expected them to introduce new products on my personal schedule of desires. If someone else is offering a product that better suits my current needs, I don't owe Panasonic anything either. Brand loyalty is self-imposed corporate slavery.
 
yoclay said:
...And frankly, if I was Panasonic I would be darn glad I hadn't developed and released something.
How can anyone compete with the show stealing Blackmagic cameras?
I think they will be in the unique position of being able to properly evaluate the market and decide where they want to go as a result...
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The AF100 and BM cameras are different markets (with much overlap). The BM cameras are pure cinema cameras. It's feature set/form factor/use of Raw are a turn off for me. The benefits of Raw don't outweigh the hassle and expense that comes with it for me. Once you eleiminate Raw from the equation, what's the more attractive camera? I use my AF100 mostly for corporate interviews that end up on the web. As it stands, it's a great camera. And all the usefull features it comes with compared to the new BM cameras outweigh 4k (which is irreleveant for what I do anyway). I know there are a lot of folks out there like me. Plus, I know of at least one instance (my old station) where the AF100 is used for broadcast (some commercials that need short turnaround).

Regarding the 5000 and Varicam, David's right, and I bet Panasonic is going to sell a ton of these cameras. They both look like great cameras. I actually wasn't dissapointed overall, just in the lack of a large sensor camera. And that's largely because they have all the pieces for such a winner in place already... a great industry standard set of codecs and media, improved sensor technology (GH3), and a lens standard that is seeing increased acceptance and offerings by other manufacturers.
 
Oh for cluck’s sake! (and I thought I was a Panasonic fan-boy) . . .

Business cycle my arse! The old business model doesn’t work—this industry moves far too quickly for that. Everybody and their cousin had a dog in this fight, except Panasonic. Making excuses for their not having *something* of interest in the sub-$10k category is silly . . . in the past they at least went to the trouble to display a balsa wood model of something spray painted black. Not that I'm eager to see anyone else out of work but in this case I think someone should be fired.

Cine-Gear, IBC, etc.? Oh sure, after everyone (waiting/hoping for something from Panasonic at NAB 2013) has switched gears and made a BM, or Canon buying decision (I would have said Red but I'm thinking sub 10k), then intro something. Splendid idea.

The sad and simple truth is that the real difference is we don’t have Jan anymore (I said that nearly six weeks ago in another thread, how much I/we missed Jan).

A turn of phrase often attributed to Thomas Paine (and used commercially by Lee Iaccoca in the 80’s) was, “Lead, follow, or get out of the way.” Which is exactly what Panasonic has done.
 
I have a been a faithful Panasonic guy for the past 10 years. I have the 200, 170, 500, 3000 and 2 af100s. I always found Panasonic offered a better camera for a great price... I liked the 500 over the early 1/2" XDCAM and then the 3000 beat the pants off the F900 and even newer 2/3" XDCAM (when I looked at price and quality). I love my af100s - don't get me wrong... but as I have the budget to do slightly 'higher-end' projects I have been forced to move away from Panasonic... I have been shooting commercial production with my F3 and am super impressed. It's true I don't need 4k right now but a large sensor (and dynamic range) gives me the ability to get that look that I need. I just wish Panasonic would give me a reason to stay with them for that kind of production... or even a hint that I should be waiting for them to get into the game before I jump ship... but nothing...
 
I hate to say I'm not surprised but, yes, nothing from Panny.

I think the lack of activity from Panasonic reveals a couple of things, possibly confirmed by this NAB. First, I think Panasonic broadcast is in its death-throes, the finances of the Japanese giants have been well discussed here and other places online. Broadcast is not the market it once was, in almost every respect. Panasonic also can not, or will not change some fundamentals in its business model, the market for the kinds of tools that DVXuser-types 'think' they need has a much faster than traditional product cycle. To be a player for this market Panasonic needs to introduce models that make their own models obsolete before they have even fulfilled the preorders on them. Or introduce products that completely undercut the price and performance of their flagships cameras leaving the professionals who invested money there without a ROI before they need to upgrade.

While I don't for a minute believe that 4K holds any magic that must be seized, the lack of response by Panasonic to the 4K madness (as in tulips) is most revealing. There should be an answer to the Sony F5/55, and there is not even a whiff of acknowledgement. The peculiar thing is that there is some real innovation and direction happening in the stills division, but all in all I don't think the big problems with Panny bode well for micro 4/3 in general. . .but tomorrow is another day.
 
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But the black Magic does not do variable frame rate ramping up to 120 frames per second. The future of digital cinema is Varicam.
 
Okay here is what you get with 120 fps digital cinema projection. Native 24 fps, native 30 fps, native 40 fps, native 60 fps, native 120 fps. If that is not a game changer I do not know what is.
 
androbot2084 said:
But the black Magic does not do variable frame rate ramping up to 120 frames per second. The future of digital cinema is Varicam.
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[h=1]NAB: Panasonic - HPX600 and 4K Varicam[/h]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW93mpm-FhA

Oh wait - that was last year…...

I doubt we will ever see a 4K VariCam
 
the original Varicam was 720p and everyone dismissed it because it was not full high definition 1080p yet it out resolved 1080p because 1080p was limited to 24 frames per second.
 
What people do not realize is variable frame rate ramping is the only way we can get higher frame rates into digital cinema without the soap opera effect.
 
androbot2084 said:
the original Varicam was 720p and everyone dismissed it because it was not full high definition 1080p yet it out resolved 1080p because 1080p was limited to 24 frames per second.
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Except who is shooting 60p for narrative distribution as opposed to 24p? Nobody, so I fail to see what your point is.
 
People don't shoot 60p for digital cinema because that generates the soap opera effect. In the future if you project a 120 fps video stream you can project 24 fps natively for the drama and 60 fps for the fast action sequences. The end result is better motion fidelity and the audience does not complain about the soap opera effect. To me this is more of an advance than 4K.
 
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