"normal" $1000/d DP lighting kit?

M

mcbob

Veteran
Market research, and/or 2015 purchase planning, I guess...

If you were hiring a DP for documentary/corporate/commercial in the ~$1000/d (equipped) range for documentary/corporate/commercial, what is the "typical" lighting kit you'd expect? Kinos? Litepanels? Arris? A mess of Lowel and F&V stuff?

I know anything can and will be used, but having run mostly solo since starting in this career ~8 years ago and rarely working in crews, I am decidedly oblivious as to what constitutes "normal" these days. Thanks.
 
"Normal" for the work we do means renting a grip truck with all the lights our DP and lighting team need. For around $500 we'll usually get a 3- or 5-ton truck with a full complement of Arris and Kinos, along with scads of support and grip gear. We'll add HMIs a la carte if the need is there, and specialty items like jibs and dollies as well.

When we hire a DP, I don't generally expect him or her to supply any of the lighting gear. But in a city like Austin, we're a bit spoiled for choice, so things may be different in your area.

If you're expected to supply lights for the shoots you work on, a combination of Arris and Kinos would be a good start. But remember, lights are only part of the equation. Take a look at what's in your standard grip truck and you'll get a good idea of all the tools a DP would generally want at their disposal to do a job.
 
Do you have crew?

Maybe it is you and someone else.

Alone? Dedo Dled 4.1 and softbox, vlock power - emergency fill.

You and a director who might help you with a wheeled case? 3 litepanel ki - basic interview

Working near your own vehicle? Add 3 redheads and some grip and scrim? less basic interview and maybe some kick to a room like a restaurant.

--

I guess this is the expectation of a lighting camera-person?


So a couple of little hard lights, a couple of panels and a few tungstens, a bit of gel and a couple of 4.4 diffusers?

Im guessing you cant handle much more anyway without a crew.

S
 
Camera: yes, included in my current rate (which is most always lower than $1000/d), albeit it's pretty basic kit at the moment - AF100 and GH4... nothing highly in demand but capable of a solid 1080p picture. That's a separate issue at this point... my lighting game is even less impressive, 2 RIFAs, 2 Pro-Lights, and 3 V-lights with a few basic modifiers. A couple of C-stands, several floppies, a Matthews mini-grip kit, a few collapsible backgrounds.... I've used the crap out of it all in ~8 years, but definitely need to step up in that department. Seems a better idea than constantly throwing money at camera makers for the next obsolete thing.

Have to admit... I've never seen the inside of a grip truck. Maybe I should visit one somewhere to gain a clue.

One of my side-ideas is to build up a grip trailer (5'x8' or so) that could also rent out... I haven't seen these packages and it seems like a possible niche between a case of lights and a multi-ton truck package. I just have to figure out the right G&E to fill it.
 
Here's a breakdown of what one of our local rental houses has on their smallest (1/2 ton) truck…

http://www.hdgear.tv/lists/AUSTIN_HALFTON_WEBSITE.pdf

Now, I'm not suggesting you invest in all of this stuff. Again, what you need to make the "look" you want is going to depend on way more factors then we can address here. But it should give you a pretty solid idea of what comes on your average small truck.
 
outstanding link, thanks

Certainly all sorts of directions to go. Part of the impetus is knowing that I'd like to have more lighting on hand, and part of it is also an experience about a week ago where a producer seemed mystified that I didn't have a Kino bank at my hire rate. I responded that I could easily add it and expense the rental... it's one of the things I'd been budgeting to add, but I simply didn't know if my rate was "too high" for the minimal gear I own. Current cut rate is $250/d for equipment including the Panny cams, lenses, travel slider, sticks, supports, and all the Lowel lighting gear mentioned above, which seems quite a deal vs. renting all that stuff via LensRentals, but not so much when compared to that 1/2t grip truck.
 
What would be best in your case would probably be to have a basic kit of the most flexible fixtures you can, with some basic grip/gaffing tools as well. Kinos are always good, as are Arri Tungsten kits. You could even look at some Lekos or small HMIs, depending on the kinds of shoots you're handling.
 
Yeah, thanks for the link Stephan.
they have a location here where I live, but I had never thought to use them because I wrangle assumed they would be more expensive than some other big players here...turns out they're cheaper!
Sweet.
 
DPStewart said:
Yeah, thanks for the link Stephan.
they have a location here where I live, but I had never thought to use them because I wrangle assumed they would be more expensive than some other big players here...turns out they're cheaper!
Sweet.
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No worries, Stewart! I love those guys, and they've helped us out on many a project.

The thing with rental houses is that most people just assume they're out of reach price-wise. But the things you'll find on a grip truck (lighting and otherwise) can really, REALLY help a good crew move faster through a day. As a producer, that's a good thing. As a director, that's a great thing, since it means more time to "play" and improvise.
 
Maybe this might help give you a good idea from an owner/op. I'm shooting with more expensive camera's, but you can take that into account...

My normal rate for me, cam and gear is usually $1800(VariCam or C300) and my normal lighting/grip includes:

2x 400 Kino Diva's
2x Kino Bar Fly's
2x Litepanel Astra's
3x Litepanel Sola ENG Kit
1x BronKobold 800 HMI
2x Arri 650's
2x Arri 300'2
4x Arri 150's
2x Lowel Omni's
1x Source 4 Pattern Projector
Multiple Chimera's
Dimmers
A/C(God knows how many feet)/Splitters
Gels
Various grip(clamps, heads, arms, etc.)(expendables like gaffe tape and trick line, etc.)
8x "Normal" Light Stands
4x Low Plates
8x C-stands
Assorted heavy duty & tall stands
Multiple 4x4 and 6x6 frames w/silks & nets
2x 24x36 Solids
2x 24x36 Single Net
2x 24x36 Double Net
2x 24x36 Full Silk
2x 18x24 Solids
Wire & Solid Cookies
Multiple Backdrops & Sound Blankets
8x 25lb Shot Bags
4x 15lb Shot Bags
4X 10lb Boa Bags
4x 5lb Boa Bags
And a 2kw pure sine wave inverter installed in my truck.

I also have a stand-alone 2kw generator available and more tungsten/grip plus another 800w HMI.
 
@Run&Gun - are you ever hired for your camera package alone and don't include your lighting/grip equipment?

@mcbob - Re: trailer niche - I am guessing hiring a loaded van would be more appealing than screwing around with a trailer. If you're the only one who uses it as an owner/operator it is definitely doable but seems like a tougher sell as a rental item.

The lighting equipment takes up the most space - you might want to focus on rounding out support gear e.g. sticks, slider/dolly system, car mount i.e. Matthews Master mount, jib, Ronin, etc. This way you've covered all bases when it comes to most shooting situations. I don't know what equipment you have access to as far as rentals, but if it's easier to get your hands on lights then you can work on adding to the camera package and vice versa. Also as a solo shooter you can't downplay your ability to do sound in the field.

I have an arri 750, 2x 650s, 2x300s and 2x dedo 150s. The BBS Area 48/dedo 150s are reached for more than the largest tungsten fixtures. A battery-powered panel with high output that doesn't get hot is worth its weight in gold when you are by yourself.

It's important to keep selling your shooting ability in various situations (which it seems like your'e doing well) rather than pushing a gear list.

Decisions decisions...
 
Run&Gun said:
Maybe this might help give you a good idea from an owner/op. I'm shooting with more expensive camera's, but you can take that into account...

My normal rate for me, cam and gear is usually $1800(VariCam or C300) and my normal lighting/grip includes:

2x 400 Kino Diva's
2x Kino Bar Fly's
2x Litepanel Astra's
3x Litepanel Sola ENG Kit
1x BronKobold 800 HMI
2x Arri 650's
2x Arri 300'2
4x Arri 150's
2x Lowel Omni's
1x Source 4 Pattern Projector
Multiple Chimera's
Dimmers
A/C(God knows how many feet)/Splitters
Gels
Various grip(clamps, heads, arms, etc.)(expendables like gaffe tape and trick line, etc.)
8x "Normal" Light Stands
4x Low Plates
8x C-stands
Assorted heavy duty & tall stands
Multiple 4x4 and 6x6 frames w/silks & nets
2x 24x36 Solids
2x 24x36 Single Net
2x 24x36 Double Net
2x 24x36 Full Silk
2x 18x24 Solids
Wire & Solid Cookies
Multiple Backdrops & Sound Blankets
8x 25lb Shot Bags
4x 15lb Shot Bags
4X 10lb Boa Bags
4x 5lb Boa Bags
And a 2kw pure sine wave inverter installed in my truck.

I also have a stand-alone 2kw generator available and more tungsten/grip plus another 800w HMI.
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That is a great package you have built up however it is way beyond what most people will provide for that $1800 total price. And it is way beyond what they are paying. You are giving away a LOT of kit there. I understand that providing so much for such a low cost is your hook. I often do the same. But it is NOT what is expected for a basic light kit and it is not what is expected for $1800 with camera and DP included.

In my experience $1800 would typically get the client a DP with an F5 and a basic 4-light arri kit with a kino divo and or a 1 x 1 Litepanel. Plus a couple of c-stands, stingers, maybe a flag or two, and flexfills. But 21 lights as part of an $1800 total package price?? That's ridiculous. Or, rather, it is ridiculous to suggest that a "basic" ENG light package consists of 21 lighting units.

That may be YOUR normal light package and I get that you are proud of the fact that you offer all of that as a "normal" package. But the package is far from "normal" and no one should get the idea that they are to acquire 21 light units to provide a "normal" light package.

If your DP rate is $800 and the camera is $700 ( the rate at most rental houses for a complete C300 package ) you are only getting $300 for a 21 unit lighting package.

I think a more realist "standard" light package for a $1000 DP / cam / lighting / grip rate is:

Arri kit -(2) 650w fresnel, (2) 300w fresnel

Kino Diva 4-bulb

1 x 1 Litepanel

That's IT. Don't give stuff away unless you are doing it to hook clients in, unless part of your appeal as a owner / op DP is that anyone who hires you gets a shitload of lights for next to nothing. The problem for the industry with doing that sort of thing is that clients start to ask the same of others...clients start to expect it. Then everyone else is expected to give away a shitload of lights for a bargain price.

"But when I hired Bob in Seattle he had 20 different lights as part of his standard kit, an HMI included. You can't do that for us as well?!?".

An HMI isn't part of a "normal" kit. That is, if they want an HMI it is an additional cost.

Earn repeat clients with your talent and the relationship you build with them. Don't earn repeat clients because you provide a bunch of kit for essentially free of charge to the client. If you are good the clients will pay your rate without you having to give away the farm.

That lighting / grip package listed by Run & Gun would alone cost $1500-$2000 a day from a rental house.

A 2kw generator as part of a standard light package? And two 800w HMI's?? Oh, c'mon. You were just showing off all the kit you have and I get that. But what you listed is not, I repeat, NOT a "normal" lighting package for the rate you listed.

All that kit for the $1800 total price suggests that as a DP you merit around $25 per day. And I am sure such is not the case.
 
JPNola said:
That is a great package you have built up however it is way beyond what most people will provide for that $1800 total price. A 2kw generator as part of a standard light package? And two 800w HMI's?? Oh, c'mon. You were just showing off all the kit you have and I get that. But what you listed is not, I repeat, NOT a "normal" lighting package for the rate you listed. All that kit for the $1800 total price suggests that as a DP you merit around $25 per day. And I am sure such is not the case.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, you have no idea about the market conditions in his/her area.

For example... I have 2 2kw generators in my kit, along with HMIs. My day rate is the same whether you choose kit from my 75 different lighting instruments, or just hire me.

The only time my rate goes up is if I have to rent additional gear.

The competition in my market is fierce, with one of the largest production houses in the region going out of business, and what seems like hundreds of freelancers and film school grads willing to work for next to nothing.
 
David W. Jones said:
With all due respect, you have no idea about the market conditions in his/her area.

For example... I have 2 2kw generators in my kit, along with HMIs. My day rate is the same whether you choose kit from my 75 different lighting instruments, or just hire me.
Click to expand...

Is that "typical"? Is it typical in the industry for a Owner / Operator DP's day rate to include 75 different lighting instruments or even 20 different lighting instruments? If it IS typical in your market for an owner / op DP to provide 75 lighting units as part of his day rate then you are not gaining any advantage over all that fierce competition by providing a 75 unit light package for no additional fee.. I think it is clear from what you said that you provide all that lighting at no charge in order to have a competitive advantage, ergo what you provide is ATYPICAL.

The characterization of a 22 unit lighting package that includes 2 HMI's and a portable generator as a "normal" package could lead the original poster to believe that one has to spend $20k in order to assemble a "typical" light package that is the norm for a 2-man crew consisting of DP owner / op & Sound Op. I am of the opinion that a "typical" lighting package in the industry is not that elaborate.

The package listed on the page for this company is more along the lines of what I would characterize as a "normal" lighting package for a sub-$2000 DP / Camera / Lighting / Grip package:

http://www.siriusvid.com/production-packages/eng-cam-support/eng-field-lighting-pkg.html

The U.S. crewing services such as Crews Control and Crew Connection consider what is listed in the above link ( or something similar ) to be a normal lighting package. They do not expect owner / ops to provide 20+ lighting units as part of a typical camera / lighting package. I know of numerous owner ops in the South Central U.S. market who are able to stay very busy without having to provide more than a basic 5 unit light package. Most of them are able to command an additional fee for HMI lighting. Although that is changing and an HMI is more often expected as part of a basic lighting package.

Input from other owner / ops who stumble across this convo is welcomed. What do your clients expect as part of a "typical" lighting package for a DP / Camera / Lighting / Grip package in the $1800 range?
 
What is typical?

I think if you were to ask 20 different people, you would likely get 18 different answers.

In my little world typical means one day I might need 10 Tungsten lights, and the next I might need 5 HMIs. Or go from Fluorescents and Dedolights on one shoot, to IDX powered LEDs on the next.

Someone who shoots a lot of food product might need a completely different lighting package as someone who typically shoots sit down interviews.

While I do own 75 lights, they don't all come out on a shoot. I sold all my bigger lights a few years back when I got rid of my 5 ton truck, so now a 2K is my biggest light. And to be honest, I plan on culling a few more Tungsten lights from my kit this year and adding Joker 800w and 1600w HMIs, as the majority of the stuff I do now is daylight.

While you may not feel that Run&Gun's 20 light package is typical of an owner operator, I see it as a well rounded kit allowing him to cover the bases in a variety of shooting situations.

All the best!

Dave
 
David W. Jones said:
What is typical?

I think if you were to ask 20 different people, you would likely get 18 different answers.

In my little world typical means one day I might need 10 Tungsten lights, and the next I might need 5 HMIs. Or go from Fluorescents and Dedolights on one shoot, to IDX powered LEDs on the next.
Click to expand...

But the question posed wasn't "what do you typically need for a shoot?". It was what is "typical" for the $1000 Shooter, camera, lighting, grip rate. Or in other words, what lighting should clients realistically expect to be provided for that price range. For that bargain basement price clients should not have high expectations. Realistically, for that price, all they can expect is an Arri kit or equivalent 4-light tungsten kit.

At some point we all have to put our foot down in this race to the bottom and not be afraid when in the described situation to tell the Producer "I can't provide a Diva for the price that was negotiated."
 
I do a lot of $1.5-3g/d jobs and the only difference is what the scope of the job is thus what my rate is. The gear i bring depends on the scope. Since i own almost all i need i just choose what to bring and what not to bring. I would never shoot myself in the foot by not bringing what i need to get job done but i DO negotiate harshly. I have very little interest in giving my stuff away if i know you are bringing me on a job with $$ behind it.
 
One thing I will recommend on top of all things listed is get a good cart to carry your gear. I use Inovativ carts, they are probably best in the business. They are versatile, easy to transport and most importantly when you load hundreds and pounds of gear on top of them they roll around like they are empty.

https://inovativcarts.com/

They are not cheap but you buy them once and use them forever. I have about 7 of them in total and they are worth their weight in gold.

If you can demo a unit that someone has and you will see they value.
 
emretufekci said:
One thing I will recommend on top of all things listed is get a good cart to carry your gear. I use Inovativ carts, they are probably best in the business. They are versatile, easy to transport and most importantly when you load hundreds and pounds of gear on top of them they roll around like they are empty.

https://inovativcarts.com/

They are not cheap but you buy them once and use them forever. I have about 7 of them in total and they are worth their weight in gold.

If you can demo a unit that someone has and you will see they value.
Click to expand...

Wow, thanks for sharing that Emre! Their Scout cart looks brilliant, just the thing I've been looking for (a cart that folds down COMPACT).
 
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