No Respect for Videographers

A

alilvietboi4u

Active member
okay i have been shooting alot of public underground concerts, night clubs, events, and parties, and I am getting hired and paid to do it. But the thing that pisses me off the most is people getting aggravated and even to the point of almost using physical violence. I get threatened and cussed at everynow and then by people who dont want to be on camera and its my job to get footage of them.... A couple hours ago I almost got into a fight with a security guard cause he didnt want to be on camera. But I was hired to shoot everything at this one event. I dont know what to do in these situations antmore and getting aggravated myself. is there anyone who has this problem? Now I think I know how the paparatzzi feels....
 
If you are comparing yourself to the paparazzi, you probably deserve to get your ass whipped once in a while. Even in a night club, people have a right to a certain amount of privacy. Unless the person who hired you has been sitting at the door with talent release forms and a sign, the public has a right to not be taped. Your not getting paid to start fights to get these people on camera, specially since there are plenty of other folk who won't care. If somebody objects, shoot around them. Problem solved.
 
I don't know how it is in San Francisco, but here in Quebec the law is you can film or photography anyone unless you can say a person is the subject of the picture. In other words you can photography a scene where there are a lot of people (i.e. a concert) but if you can tell that the subjct is not the seen but a person or a small group of persons, you have to ask them permission. I think it makes sense, even if it complicates things a lot sometimes.

In your case, you should ask people gently and respectfully before filming them, explaining what's your job and the what the project is. It's easier to have their agreement this way. If you see a good scene and you have time to ask, shoot, but be aware of the reactions and stop if they don't want to be shot with a look and a smile that says "It's alright, sorry about that".

You can also ask for a "pass" or a tag that looks official (even if there are none for the event), it can even be selfmade. With a tag stating something like "Official film crew (or videographer) - [event name]", people will be aware of what your doing and why your filming them. They will also have the perception that it's smething big and that maybe your not the head in it, and sometimes it discourages them to pick on you. The security crew should be advised to, this way you will know in advance who doesn't want to be filmed.
 
Another thing, if it's possible, it's a good thing if the producer of the event tells the audience that the event will be filmed, this way nobody is taken by surprise. I made this before filming a punk-rock show, and the public was like "Yeeeaaaah! Let's show the world what we're made of!" and I had no problems filming.

But again, you've got to respect people. If they don't want to be filmed, it's their choice and you simply have got to respect that.
 
Some authoritative legal input needed here.

Some authoritative legal input needed here.

Capt Quirk said:
...Even in a night club, people have a right to a certain amount of privacy..
Click to expand...
While I'm a big advocate of privcay, how do other venues get away with showing folks on camera, e.g. fans holding a banner, or cheering, or even napping at a sports event or a concert? (And those shots often involve children, which can be a big "no-no"). It may very well be one of those very fine, technical points of the the law, but it seems little different from a club: both places may require an admission price, yet some forbid recording of any kind, while they reserve the "right"...or is it a privilege...to record whatever/whoever they darn well please.

x
 
I have no respect for videographers, but for different reasons.

Seriously though, it might be worth making up some sort of press pass that makes you look official. Random people are less likely to question you if you look legit.
 
I recently shot some B-roll for a television show where a concert was also being filmed. Notes where posted on all entrances that video taping would be conducted and that by their presence at the event they are giving their permission to be filmed for this event. The release was also read aloud at the microphone ,in front of the crowd prior to tape rolling. Anyone not interested in being filmed where given the opportunity to leave, or divert their faces away from the camera operators.. It was basically a blanket release, which no one needed to sign, but indemnified the show from anyone complaining later.
 
I think if you look in the fine print on the back of those sporting-event tickets, you'll see that attendance of the event grants permission to the producing organization (NFL, NASCAR, whatever) to use images of people at the event however they want. People seldom object to being filmed at a sporting event, but circumstances at a club may be different -- suppose the woman the dude's got on his lap isn't his wife? Or someone thinks their drug deal just got (accidentally) recorded? Even with nothing to hide, people often don't want to be part of someone else's advertising because of implied endorsement.
 
If it's your job to shoot at clubs and parties then it's your responsibility to get release forms signed. If the owners are signing these forms (or if they are the ones hiring you) then they should let everyone in the club know about the videotaping. If they are not, you need to tell them to do it.
 
I know exactly how you feel and I'm always fighting with that too actually. It bothers me a lot when I go out and am asked to shoot a show for someone.

I really am not sure what the law says and I think we need to find out exactly what our rights are in terms of using the camera. My (non-authoritative) understanding is that you're allowed to shoot anything in public, but reproducing the image of someone, if it's identifiable, is the issue where you need permission.

Besides the legal issue, it usually ends up working itself out for me. I usually get what I need and if not you should use some diplomacy with the people and be more informative about what you're doing beforehand and then people are more open.

I think you should also communicate with the people who are hosting whatever your shooting and ask that they make announcements about it too.
 
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I think you need to respect people's right not to be photographed. I have worked as a video journalist and very rarely did I almost come to blows over this (and there are a lot of people that don't want news camers pointed their way). If some one asks me not to shoot them, as long as there not the subject of the story, I say no problem and move on. There are those who get pissed, but if you give them their space, they usally cool off. Even as a videographer, I wouldn't want some one shooting me in a club without knowing their intent. Just because you are there doing your job does't release you from common courtasy.
 
its hard for people to announce to bieng filmed and to ask all 500-1000 people to see if they want to be filmed. also in a small tight crowded envioronment. also i have tags and there are other photographers there. there are also a paper on the door that say by entering you give us the right to blah blah for video and stuff. i still get mad people. so much is going on in a 2 hour shoot.

a sample video: http://www.studiomtn.com/flash_player_v2/funkyflash/funkyflash.html
 
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It's really unusual that you have had so many problems. I have shot shows at many different clubs from Miami and into Georgia, all types of crowds, and never had one incident. It is possible you may be overly aggressive in your shooting, which could upset your overly sensitive and drinking jerks. Not having been to California to know the crowds, but it has been my general experience that no matter where you are, there will always be an ass looking for trouble.

The paparazi are overly aggressive, completely insensitive, looking to invade your life, just so that they can make a dime for themselves. And it is their "Right". Personally, if I were to have someone shoving a camera in my face, I'd likely bludgeon them senseless with their own camera. That is my "Right".

PS- Show up well before the show and place the afore mentioned signs, and not have as many worries.
 
I've shot several concerts and I do all the normal stuff. The owner of the venue knows I am taping his place, that's the biggest thing and of course the band or artist is aware. I also post video taping warnings on the doors. As long as the owners are cool with you taping you don't have anything to worry about, if someone doesn't want to be on camera try not to shoot them exclusively. You can't help get them in a shot if you shoot the entire crowd, but if someone really has a problem with you being there, tell them to take it up with the owner, you're busy working!
 
Capt Quirk, one possibility could be that you shoot in Georgia and Florida... in the south; while the thread originator works in SanFrancisco. Having been born and raised in CA, lived in LA for 20 yrs, SanFrancisco for 3... and now in the south for 17, I'll testify that there is also a stronger cultural sense of courtesy to strangers in the south.
No, it's not an absolute, so don't flame me, O left-coast friends, just an observation.

;-)
 
Dude working in L.A. everyone wants to be on cam and expects to be at some point in the day. I echo the "looking professional" and posting a "big ass sign" sentiments. That's just common sense. Signs at clubs usually just say. We're taping, you might be on it, we're gonna use it. Then on live sets in public it says the same thing. If you walk through here, you might be filmed.
 
On a parallel note, as a newspaper photographer I was assigned to document life in a gay part of town. In particular a bar known to be a gay hangout.

It wasn't exactly my idea of a great time but I figured I'd be professional about it and not whine at getting assigned to the story.

I got permission to shoot pics in there and got ready for whatever flak might come my way. I thought: here's a bunch of folks who probably want to hang out with one another in a cozy, private setting and won't want their lifestyle made public.

As soon as someone found out I was from the local paper, I had requests left and right: Can you take a picture of us? What about me and my friend? Etc. I was never more welcome.

Unfortunately, an editor decided that the whole topic wasn't suitable for a family newspaper and killed the entire package. What a waste of time that all turned out to be!

Well, not exactly a waste. We did get let in later for an annual Halloween costume contest and got a bunch of great photos that DID get published.
 
i've had more then a few situations where i've been shooting an event and people who didn't want to get on film, got on film, and they got upset. at this point, if i have to film in a big public venue, i usually just ask a group of people before i film. 9 / 10 people will think it's cool and let you film.
recently i was filming with a crew of 3 cameras at a concert in a small club, and someone tapped me on the shoulder in the middle of a set and asked me to move, he couldn't see the band.
i just told him he should move then, because the band is paying me to do my best to get them on film.
 
Right to privacy is a complicated issue that has many stipulations, but the general rule is that a person does not have any privacy rights when they are in a place where there there is no expectancy of privacy....basically any place that can be viewed by the general public. If someone is sunbathing nude in their open front yard, they have no protection, but if they are in their backyard with a tall fence, or inside their house, then they have rights.

People in a club are in view of the general pubilc, so they can't expect to have a right to privacy, its no different than filming an outside block party.

That being said, I always try to respect people when I am shooting, so if it makes them too uncomfortable or confontational, then I just step away.
 
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