No-budget feature audio gear, please help!!!

T

therussian

Well-known member
Hey,

This summer I'm ready to shoot a no-budget feature film on a DSLR. I'm a little bit clueless in terms of audio. I'm really limited on budget...

I thought of this...
-record audio on camera for backup + sync with...
-external recording with a Rode Videomic Pro connected to a Tascam DR-05
+on location use an iPad slater app.
+make notes of the take number and audio file number for easier post work.

What you think of this setup? In terms of budget this is what the max I can spend...

For on location monitoring I could use a headphone.

I need a simple setup as I'll be operating the camera and sound as well...
 
Hire someone who knows audio and has good gear...whatever the cost. Unless you don't care about getting distribution later.
 
Gary Huff said:
Hire someone who knows audio and has good gear...whatever the cost. Unless you don't care about getting distribution later.
Click to expand...

I don't have the money for that. I don't want an Oscar for audio, I just want to record a proper sound from which later I or a sound guy could work in post production.
 
"I don't have the money for that"
- Will you have money ( and lots more of it) for ADR and other restoration when the 'low budget' location sound is not usable. This is an all too common occurrence/mistake and ends up costing much much more than doing it right the first time. Don't say we didn't warn you.
 
You can post on craigslist or something similar and find a sound guy who wants more projects to add to his resume. There is still a chance there is a person who will do it for free because he/she genuinely loves what they do, rather than someone who just wants another paycheck. Its worth a shot!
 
eggoyuken said:
There is still a chance there is a person who will do it for free because he/she genuinely loves what they do, rather than someone who just wants another paycheck. Its worth a shot!
Click to expand...

Yes, hopefully he/she still lives at home paying the bills, because otherwise they'll be working a lot of days out of a month for no money using expensive gear.
 
Rick R said:
- Will you have money ( and lots more of it) for ADR and other restoration when the 'low budget' location sound is not usable.
Click to expand...

Of course not, which is why there'll be scenes with audio that sounds marginally better than what you get from the internal mic, which will, in turn, cause any potential distributor to pass, thus the film ends up being dumped on YouTube for free, netting a few hundred views.
 
I see your point, but with all due respect, if it would be the case then no El Mariachi would had been made... no Following... no Paranormal Activity, and no many other great examples.... If it would be the case, then why don't get a professional gaffer, a professional cinematographer and so on etc... If that would be the case then we should erase a huge chunk of the many films that gets made and enter a festival circuit and become successful...

But I see your point.... I will talk with a sound guy, I intend to, but I give it very low chances that he would come for this movie for free or for a small amount. As I said, it's a NO BUDGET film, so I don't have the money for paying people. If I start to pay for a simple sound guy for a feature length shoot, then comes the cast and other members.... In this economic state I won't find any pro who would come for free....
 
Try a Rode SmartLav. Plug it into your Iphone and pin it to your talent. Dollar for dollar -- the quality is decent and it's inexpensive ($60).
 
Yes it would work but give poor results... At best I would rate it as 3/10.
If your after quality at that level go for it....
 
OzGizmo said:
Yes it would work but give poor results... At best I would rate it as 3/10.
If your after quality at that level go for it....
Click to expand...

I don't think Mariachi or Following had a sound technician.... I don't think their audio quality is Oscar worthy, but you can't deny that they are awesome movies. That level of audio quality is enough for me.
 
The Rode, if mounted on the camera, won't be much better. As you probably already read, to get good audio, you must have the microphone in close proximity to the actor. A lav or a boom mic within 1' to 2' is ideal. It just gets worse with distance. So the camera mounted Rode is a waste of time in my opinion.

It depends upon what you are shooting that will determine what might be a good alternative. Excellent hard wired lavs can be had for under $100 (used), for talking heads situation. Almost any mic in close proximity as a boom will be better than the camera mounted microphone. A cardioid or super cardioid on a boom or a lav on the actor is what you need.
 
Paul F said:
The Rode, if mounted on the camera, won't be much better. As you probably already read, to get good audio, you must have the microphone in close proximity to the actor. A lav or a boom mic within 1' to 2' is ideal. It just gets worse with distance. So the camera mounted Rode is a waste of time in my opinion.

It depends upon what you are shooting that will determine what might be a good alternative. Excellent hard wired lavs can be had for under $100 (used), for talking heads situation. Almost any mic in close proximity as a boom will be better than the camera mounted microphone. A cardioid or super cardioid on a boom or a lav on the actor is what you need.
Click to expand...

Could you recommend me a concrete product for both scenarios in my price range?

I suppose for this mic I'll need a boom pole and an external recorder as well, like the Tascam DR-05, right?

According to the current state of the script there will be a lot of voice overs, and of course dialoge too, but in most cases its almost about noises, not actual speaking.
 
Well, if you insist on going ahead with this anyways, here are a few of my thoughts concerning your equipment choices.
I'd pass on the DR-05. I had a DR-07mkII and it was nearly unusable due to noisy preamps. Better results going right into the camera with the Rode VMP and the 20db boost depending on what camera you are using. Very clean results with a Canon DSLR and Magic Lantern.
Take the money you saved by not buying the DR-05 and get yourself the Sound for Film & Television DVD
When shooting outside, the Rode VMP has a real problem with wind noise. Even with a deadcat. The wind hits the plastic parts and is very noticeable. Building your own furry cover for all the plastic areas helps a lot.
 
therussian said:
Hey,

This summer I'm ready to shoot a no-budget feature film on a DSLR. I'm a little bit clueless in terms of audio. I'm really limited on budget...

I thought of this...
-record audio on camera for backup + sync with...
-external recording with a Rode Videomic Pro connected to a Tascam DR-05
+on location use an iPad slater app.
+make notes of the take number and audio file number for easier post work.

What you think of this setup? In terms of budget this is what the max I can spend...

For on location monitoring I could use a headphone.

I need a simple setup as I'll be operating the camera and sound as well...
Click to expand...

I'm sure the pros will give you the usual advice... 'hire someone'... oh, wait... someone already did...

The only real 'advice' I'd strongly suggest is in addition to the iPad "Slate"... is an old fashioned mechanical slate with marker pen info...

The iPad slate (and I'll bet most other 'pad' slates'), are pretty damn hard to see outside, or in high light conditions. If you look at the pro slates, they are LED based, and so are far more visible.

I'd also suggest getting a boompole as well, which was not mentioned in your list.

Also, get the equipment together, and work with it long before your shooting days, as well as find someone who can 'operate' the boom, without wiggling, pointing in the wrong direction, fidgeting during the take, or similar sorts of things.

As for conventions, I'm not familiar with the Tascam, but if there is a way to set the file name 'prefix', as well as date/time stamp for the file, set that up for all shoots, and if those setups are 'erased' after a batter change, make sure they are properly reset as required.

Having a script 'supervisor' to manage visual file names, as well as the audio, will make life far more pleasant than trying to figure it all out after the shoot...

Mark all shots with visual (readable not fuzzed out because the slate is not were the camera focus is...) as well as an audible call out that is captured by both the camera audio and the second sound system.

Did I mention practice with this before your shooting dates...
 
Easy look up on both movies mentioned and both had a sound department listing, Following had 6 people... so much for that theory.

But try it, read the stickies, follow the guidelines and you be the judge.

if it ends up great then that is awesome.

Good luck
 
therussian said:
Could you recommend me a concrete product for both scenarios in my price range?

I suppose for this mic I'll need a boom pole and an external recorder as well, like the Tascam DR-05, right?

According to the current state of the script there will be a lot of voice overs, and of course dialoge too, but in most cases its almost about noises, not actual speaking.
Click to expand...

Yes, for any mic except the lav, you need a boom to get the mic in close. That is one of the advantages of the lav. No operator needed. You can make a boom from a $10 painting pole at your local hardware store.

For a lav, I can recommend the Tram TR-50, which is often available on ebay in the under $125 range. I've bought four of them (including power unit) for $125 or less. This is an excellent lav with a warm sound and good isolation characteristics. I use it on live broadcast in a noisy studio and it does a great job of cutting out the other voices in the studio and isolating the talent. I also use it with the G3 wireless system for indoors and outdoors ($450-500 used). The power unit I mentioned is a small item not much bigger than an XLR connector with a button battery in it.

I do not have a cardioid or super-cardioid recommendation. I use an MKH-415 shotgun (current model is MKH-416). But this is very expensive. It can be had for $450-500 if you are patient.

Rather than an external recorder, spend the money on a mixer. You really need someone to monitor the sound while recording and adjust levels on the mixer. Record direct to the camera. For a zero-budget movie, a recorder is not needed and a mixer will be much more useful.
 
Using a VideoMic Pro and an DR-05 would certainly be better than using just the built-in mic on the camera alone, if you position the microphone as close to the sound source as possible. This requires a boompole and an extension cable (the Rode VC1). The Rode DeatCat VMP windscreen is also necessary if you're going to shoot any exteriors with dialog. Also, your must wear headphones at all times when rolling.

Basically, if you're doing this movie all by yourself, envision yourself as a boom operator first, and a camera operator second. This means having the camera on a tripod for most scenes, while you manuver the boompole.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top