NILA lighting: LED low power awesomeness

K

Kholi

Section Moderator
www.nila.tv and the freshDV report is at http://www.freshdv.com/freshtv -- Scroll down to the Nila video.

They rock pretty hard. I thought LED might be a not-so-good-idea but I can see these suckers kickin' major booty. Siniarch (Luis) came back from NAB raving about them, I think I'd rave to if I had been there.

Very nice stuff.
 
Yes, they look pretty darn cool and I like the modularity. Output equivalent of a 200w HMI PAR drawing only 60w; nice!

But $3,000 per module plus $2,500 for a full battery solution sure puts it on the expensive side of things...

RICHARD!!!??!!! :laugh:
 
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WOWOWOOOO....
  • Extremely rugged and durable (designed for location shooting)
  • 20,000 hour lamp life
  • Stackable and reconfigurable in the field
  • Universal power supply (90 to 240 volts AC or DC)
  • 65 watts power draw for 350-watt equivalent light output (tungsten)
  • Power six Nilas from one 12 volt car battery (adaptor required)
  • On board power supply with integrated dimmer
  • Dimmable 0-100%
  • DMX512 controllable
  • Two color temps to choose from (5,600 K or 3,200 K)
  • No heat transmitted in beam of light (touch lens while on)
  • Remote Hand Dimmer
  • Remote location battery kits
 
Leo Versola said:
But $3,000 per module plus $2,500 for a full battery solution sure puts in on the expensive side of things...
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it's par for the course.. i was quoted 3.2K for kinoflo kelvin tile + $900 extra if i wanted the colour gel option...

the revolution is in the changing technology. pricing will be evolutionary ---over the next 20 years. They are under no pressure to make our dream come true ;(
 
Leo Versola said:
Yes, they look pretty darn cool and I like the modularity. Output equivalent of a 200w HMI PAR drawing only 60w; nice!

But $3,000 per module plus $2,500 for a full battery solution sure puts in on the expensive side of things...

RICHARD!!!??!!! :laugh:
Click to expand...

Woh! I'll take 30 at that price. I love how these guys say the price with a straight face. :happy:

Seriously though, I do plan to make a panel using the 5w LEDs as that kind of solution has its place too but it will be after we get the other 500 LED panel done. I was thinking of a matrix of 4x4 or something similar drawing around 80w. As always its just a question of finding the right LEDs that don't get too hot and also have the great CRI we expect.
 
At their booth, when I was there, they had their spot lenses on them.
They had it pointed at the ceiling of the convention center. I would guess the ceiling height at around 50-60 ft.
I saw a fairly tight pattern of around 6-8 ft square. I was impressed, and it was definately cool to the touch on the face of the lamp.
Price-OUCH, but I was ready to shell that out for the almost CFL light box that someone else here had made, which never got made into production models. I'll wait for Richard at COOL LIGHTS.
 
This is in no way expensive. An Arri HMI is twice the price of one of these, and it only rises.

For what these are they're priced quite effectively, I suppose just not for DVXuser.
 
Nila LED Lighting

Nila LED Lighting

Sorry to be catching up so late in the conversation here – I am glad to see the positive feedback on the Nila lights and I just wanted to let you all know that we've lowered the prices on our products substantially, and we now have newer products that are far cheaper on a $/watt equivalent basis. Please check our new website www.nila.tv and come and see us at NAB2010 in Las Vagas April 12-15. Also if you're interested in trying our products out, please feel free to let us know.
-Roberta
http://www.nila.tv
 
roberta@nila.tv said:
This exciting new fixture provides LED replacement solutions for several high-end applications. The Nila SL is a direct replacement for a 6000-watt tungsten space light...The Nila SL is versatile enough also to replace a 5000-watt sky pan or a Fresnel lens fixture... The Nila SL Daylight Version is a perfect replacement for 2500-watt HMIs.
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Roberta,

You make some pretty bold claims on your website (quoted above) but don't provide photometric data to back them up. You also seem to imply that your head is either a "perfect replacement" or "direct replacement" for everything from a 6k Space Light, 5k Skypan, and 5K Fresel, when no gaffer would try to interchange any one of these lights because they all have very specific applications. How is then that your one LED Panel can be a "perfect replacement" or "direct replacement" for all three lights? Do you have a lantern bag for your LED panel that throws a uniform soft light in all directions? Do you have a true Fresnel Lens for your LED panel that will cut a hard shadow? And, your claim that the daylight version is "a perfect replacement for 2500-watt HMIs" is misleading at best. Maybe it has the output of a 2500W soft light or par bounced at best, but I find it very hard to believe (especially without giving photometric data) that it has the output of a 2500W par direct with spot lens.

The copy on your website only furthers the common perception that LED panels are a bunch of hype that is not ready for prime time. If you want us to take your lights seriously, respect the craftsmen that you want to use them and dispense with the hyperbole and give us intelligent Ad copy and meaningful photometric data.

- Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Boston.
 
Better late than never. These days, if the company has survived in the market for 2 years, they must have something interesting going for them.

Dan
 
This is a subject we think about a lot of course. In the entertainment/ production world, they have and expect two basic kinds of fixtures to work with: flood or adjustable beam spotlight. Many variations between the two but for the most part they fall out like that.

Floods are relatively easy and can be done with a number of sources including LEDs. Even some of what we call "spots" in the LED world are really still just very narrow floods--in other words, a more narrow and stronger beam than an LED fixture that's called a "flood" or wider beam version. Generally, all these flood class fixtures won't be that good at shadow rendering. Floods are for "flooding" an area with light and thats what you mainly want from that kind of fixture when you need it.

The adjustable spotlight (narrow to wide beam, single shadow rendering as found in fresnels, ellipsoidals and pars as we have known them) is the biggest challenge and is elusive but will always be necessary for some dramatic uses in theater, concerts, TV and Film. We can mimic some behavior of the adjustable narrow to wide beam through some tricks, but still no single shadow comes out of any of those tricks so some of those "dramatic" requirements can't be met yet with LEDs. For sure, a lot of companies producing an LED fixture don't want to talk about that too much, but if this issue is ever cracked, that does start to make the one to one replacement possible.

Its hard, with what we know today, to visualize an LED system that can be a one for one replacement to a high wattage par or fresnel. Put multiple LEDs behind a lens and you still have multiple light sources potentially producing multiple shadows. Add diffusion to the lens to try to blur them all into one source? Well then it isn't a hard light anymore and the shadows produced in the beam of that fixture are vaguely defined. I don't think any LED manufacturer has found a way around that based on what I see in the market. Maybe you won't care about that for many applications--particularly where you can use a flood and lots of even lighting. In many of those applications though, you may find yourself using flos just because its cost effective and energy efficient. It's all around the application and what makes the most sense of course.

I looked at a 30w single LED back in 2007 and rejected it. There are much larger ones now. I didn't like the mirror they used which was very ineffective given the positioning of the LED and the mirror (it was really more of a "feel good" mirror as I called it), the heat sinking requirements, color temperature, or the price. You really need 1 super bright, point source LED to mimic what we have now with HMI or tungsten fresnels and even then it will be darn tough to put any mirror around it help intensify beam output and get it to behave like a tungsten or HMI bulb does today. These LEDs are flat (2D) and therefore can't position in a parabolic mirror well at the point they should to get the mirror to work (requires a 3 dimensional light source with not only width and length but height too). The smaller the point light source, the better to make defined-edge shadows. These large wattage LEDs are fairly small but still are a relatively large source compared to an HMI bulb for example. So make a 3D LED, but you'll still have heat issues that have to be solved with a heavy piece of metal or a fan--neither of which are something people want to hear.

Because of these issues, you would have to totally rethink the whole design (perhaps both the fixture and LED redesigned) to do it such that the fixture compliments the LED and what it is capable of, but still gives you what you expect in the way of focusing from spot to flood in a very usable, single shadow rendering beam. You won't call it a par or fresnel--it won't resemble either most likely. It would be something else that's designed for an LED and its going to have to be a break with the past or rethinking of how to get an adjustable spotlight. It may also require a break from the past in the form factor the LEDs have been coming in too. Lastly, it must be cost effective or people won't see the proposition.

These multiple LED fixtures obviously do have their place in some apps and we're going to be seeing a lot of them in the coming years and in many form factors as well.
 
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Guy,

I encourage you to take a look at the Nila product line. Seeing our system will help you understand the possibilities of LED. (NAB booth C6042)

The SL is a new product for us and the photometric data as well as photos of the SL in “space light” configuration (through a lantern bag) will be posted soon. The design of the SL is to be a “direct replacement” for a 6K space light. That means replace the quantity and quality of light given by a 6K space light. We have done numerous tests and it is very hard to see or meter the differences in light output and light quality. There are differences;

1) Nila SL tungsten has a 3,400 degree K nominal and standard space light starts at 3,200 and quickly moves to 3,000 (about 20 hours use). 2) The Nila SL maintains its color temp when dimmed, (slight shift of color below 20% about 150 degrees K). 3) Dramatically reduced power draw (less power distribution needed). 4) Dramatically reduced heat load (less of an issue in Boston but a very big deal when you have 200 + on stage in LA in the summer). 5) Our LEDs will last 20,000 + hours and a typical space light will need new lamps after less than 200 hours. 6) Nila SL has the dimmer integrated.

Our comment on “perfect replacement” for a 2,500 watt HMI is based on how the Nila JNHs were used on Quantum of Solace and the SL’s lumen output. On Quantum Nilas replaced all the HMIs used for all of the moving vehicle shots. The HMIs that were not brought to location were between 400 watt to 4,000 watt. Nilas gave them the ability to reconfigure the size of the lights and power them from the cars battery and not worry about broken glass (lenses or lamps). If you are using a 2,500 watt HMI par as a direct single source than the Nila SL is probably not what you want to use. If you are diffusing and or bouncing then it is idea.

Richard is right that it is very hard to create a single source look with LED. We are not claiming that. We are claiming to have similar lumen output and the ability to change the beam angle similar to changing the lens on a par fixture.

If you are interested in seeing Nilas in use during “prime time” you can see them on CSI Las Vegas, CNN (last used with Anderson Cooper in Haiti). You are guaranteed to see them is use on Gems TV. Nilas have been on air with them since last September and they run their studio 24/7. There are many other well-respected craftsmen using Nilas. I encourage you to try them and make up your own mind. Regardless of Ad copy or photometrics there is no substitute for working with an instrument and making up your own mind if it is the right tool for you.

Jim Sanfilippo - Nila Inc.
 
roberta@nila.tv said:
we've lowered the prices on our products substantially, and we now have newer products that are far cheaper on a $/watt equivalent basis. Please check our new website
Click to expand...

Not sure if I missed something... but I can't seem to find any prices on the website.
Downloaded their brochure as well, no prices in there either.
Anyone have any idea what the prices are on these?
 
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