Nikon promises RAW video (to Atomos Ninja V)

Samuel H

Samuel H

Major Contributor
Sales of their mirrorless system must be very slow, because today Nikon announced they're revamping the platform in three very significative ways: CFExpress, eye AF, and external RAW video to the Atomos Ninja V. All of this should come through firmware updates to the Z6 and Z7. No dates yet.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/70116...deo-support-and-cfexpress-support-to-z-series

These cameras have DR in RAW stills that's on par with the current Sony a7 line (link), and at least two stops ahead of the p4k. It's likely that some of that will be lost when switching to faster readout modes for video (they probably switch to 12-bit ADC, maybe even 10-bit for 60fps), and I'm definitely not a fan of external recording, but still: mouthwatering...
 
Samuel H said:
Sales of their mirrorless system must be very slow, because today Nikon announced they're revamping the platform in three very significative ways: CFExpress, eye AF, and external RAW video to the Atomos Ninja V. All of this should come through firmware updates to the Z6 and Z7. No dates yet.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/70116...deo-support-and-cfexpress-support-to-z-series

These cameras have DR in RAW stills that's on par with the current Sony a7 line (link), and at least two stops ahead of the p4k. It's likely that some of that will be lost when switching to faster readout modes for video (they probably switch to 12-bit ADC, maybe even 10-bit for 60fps), and I'm definitely not a fan of external recording, but still: mouthwatering...
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I don't think it has anything to do with past sales, these features were planned long before the camera went on sale.

It's cool to have raw in a full frame camera in 4k, its the first after Red. Although pro res raw is not the same as normal raw as far as I understood.
 
They definitely knew from the start that this would be possible, but I think they didn't plan to bring it out, otherwise they would have promised all this stuff on the announcement, to get a stronger launch.

In any case, by now I think it's clear that these advances are inevitable: it may come sooner or later, but at some point we'll have internal 4k RAW on basically all cameras worth worrying about. The technology is quickly getting there, so if one brand doesn't want to do it then another one will steal their lunch.
 
Samuel H said:
Sales of their mirrorless system must be very slow, because today Nikon announced they're revamping the platform in three very significative ways: CFExpress, eye AF, and external RAW video to the Atomos Ninja V. All of this should come through firmware updates to the Z6 and Z7. No dates yet.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/70116...deo-support-and-cfexpress-support-to-z-series

These cameras have DR in RAW stills that's on par with the current Sony a7 line (link), and at least two stops ahead of the p4k. It's likely that some of that will be lost when switching to faster readout modes for video (they probably switch to 12-bit ADC, maybe even 10-bit for 60fps), and I'm definitely not a fan of external recording, but still: mouthwatering...
Click to expand...

Exactly, cameras based on Sony sensors typically can only achieve framerates sufficient for video using 12bit ADC. It's part sensor performance, part interface restriction (sub LVDS vs. Sony SLVS-EC).

Zcam E2 developed a Zlog2 low noise mode using 14bit ADC mode on IMX294CJK. And the camera's 4K 120P mode is 10bit ADC.

X-T3 uses 12bit ADC across the board in all video mode, also in 30fps ES sports mode stills shooting.
 
I don't know of a single video professional who shoots with Nikon. Still plenty of still photographers do but I think Nikon waited way too long to get serious about video and now they are an also ran.
I don't see people abandoning their EOS R, A7, GH5 or XT-3s to buy a Z6 or Z7 just because it can (or will be able to) do this. More choices are always better for us but I think this is too little, too late.
Also, external recorders, for many of us, are an attractive nuisance, for my style of shooting, they are a huge PITA. If I shot more tripod, dolly stuff, one would be handy but for run & gun, handheld, documentary
style shooting, nobody wants to add an external recorder, more cable clutter, more batteries and media to manage. The internal HEVC 10-bit at 400Mbps from my XT-3, even though it's 4:2:0, looks pretty impressive.
 
I shoot nikon as a video professional...

thats nikon lenses.. with a sony (or panny) body on the back!

we have a z6 floating around my office.. it is getting more and more traction.. defo now picked over the GH4.. but not the FS7 yet.
 
puredrifting said:
I don't know of a single video professional who shoots with Nikon. Still plenty of still photographers do but I think Nikon waited way too long to get serious about video and now they are an also ran.
I don't see people abandoning their EOS R, A7, GH5 or XT-3s to buy a Z6 or Z7 just because it can (or will be able to) do this. More choices are always better for us but I think this is too little, too late.
Also, external recorders, for many of us, are an attractive nuisance, for my style of shooting, they are a huge PITA. If I shot more tripod, dolly stuff, one would be handy but for run & gun, handheld, documentary
style shooting, nobody wants to add an external recorder, more cable clutter, more batteries and media to manage. The internal HEVC 10-bit at 400Mbps from my XT-3, even though it's 4:2:0, looks pretty impressive.
Click to expand...

+1 Couldn't agree more.

Which is why I am getting a SmallHD Bright monitor instead of a Ninja V recorder for my XT-3.
 
lars steenhoff said:
I don't think it has anything to do with past sales, these features were planned long before the camera went on sale.

It's cool to have raw in a full frame camera in 4k, its the first after Red. Although pro res raw is not the same as normal raw as far as I understood.
Click to expand...

The C700 FF is the first after RED. (The Canon FF DSLRs have also been shooting RAW with ML for quite a bit, but IDR if any crops exist.)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1399824-REG/canon_3043c002_eos_c700_full_frame.html
 
puredrifting said:
I don't see people abandoning their EOS R, A7, GH5 or XT-3s to buy a Z6 or Z7 just because it can (or will be able to) do this. More choices are always better for us but I think this is too little, too late.
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with that tiny little HDMI port for raw output? hell no :(
Unless they really get serious in next gen with SDI RAW
 
In this particular segment, it's a catch-22 because although a Ninja V SDI product may eventually be introduced (or they will offer SDI with an adapter), it's pointless in this case because all of these mirrorless cameras will continue to use HDMI and never have SDI.

Every camera on the list above offers better specs via HDMI so you essentially have to use some sort of HDMI port with all of them.

And as far as more expensive SDI cinema cameras, the internal recording will only get better and better.
 
Atomos said this should be possible many months ago and Nikon is just the first one to work with them to make this happen. Likely nothing really special on their end and it’s really Atomos that made this a reality.

I highly expect other cameras will follow suit and Atomos with work with them to help implement it. That is assuming the other manufacturers want to do this. I personally think it would be foolish not to do it as soon everybody and their brother could potential support external raw. This could be a big deal for ProRes raw and Apple as well and hopefully they get in the mix and encourage Panasonic, Fuji and Sony to support the capability.

This could be just the thing Atomos needs after going public to make their shareholders very happy. They will sell oodles of external recorders.
 
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ph2003 said:
with that tiny little HDMI port for raw output? hell no :(
Unless they really get serious in next gen with SDI RAW
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I don't think any mirrorless camera on the market uses SDI do they? I wish they did too. Even Mini SDI like my Aja Kona card used back in the day would be a huge step up from crappy HDMI. Bummed my XT-3 has that confounded Micro HDMI, at least full size works a bit better. Agree, HDMI is a disaster for pro users.
 
ph2003 said:
with that tiny little HDMI port for raw output? hell no :(
Unless they really get serious in next gen with SDI RAW
Click to expand...

And that tiny little HDMI port outputs 4K? HDMI just carries data, whatever the type, as long as it fits the bandwidth. In the case of Z6/Z7, it's HDMI 1.4b which has 8.16 Gb/s bandwidth, that's more than enough for ProRes RAW?
 
marvinhello said:
And that tiny little HDMI port outputs 4K? HDMI just carries data, whatever the type, as long as it fits the bandwidth. In the case of Z6/Z7, it's HDMI 1.4b which has 8.16 Gb/s bandwidth, that's more than enough for ProRes RAW?
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I think the poster was referring to the robustness of the plug, not the issue of bandwidth.
 
marvinhello said:
And that tiny little HDMI port outputs 4K? HDMI just carries data, whatever the type, as long as it fits the bandwidth. In the case of Z6/Z7, it's HDMI 1.4b which has 8.16 Gb/s bandwidth, that's more than enough for ProRes RAW?
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the tiny HDMI port is not reliable on serious shoot, lossing connection middle shot whenever there is small movement to the pug head is the real bummer. and in a long time use? it wears out in no time....... :(
 
I've lost an HDMI connection in the middle of a shot probably 5x in 10 years.

Then again some may ask: If you're on a serious shoot, who's using a stills camera to shoot video?
 
ph2003 said:
the tiny HDMI port is not reliable on serious shoot, lossing connection middle shot whenever there is small movement to the pug head is the real bummer. and in a long time use? it wears out in no time....... :(
Click to expand...

There are many products designed to solve this issue:

SmallRig_HDMI_Cable_Clamp_for_Fuji_X-H1_and_Fuji_X-T2_cage_2156_1__94911.1526034881.jpg
 
On all my cameras the moment the HDMI cable goes in the camera it gets clamped....period....voila, a simple sollution that has'nt failed once!...not unlike treating a lens with care, or all one's equiptment for that matter...the cost savings of these small cameras producing the images they do make that bit of extra effort worth it. I think ultimately, regardless of anyone's shooting style (with the exception of run & gun shooters), the image this extra option produces on the Z6 will be all that counts, to make it a possible choice over another camera. It's also bound to force the other camera makers (canon not included here��) TO up the stakes, so good all around especially for narrative filmmakers!
 
Same issue for me, my XT3 will go from shooting tripod mounted interviews with the battery grip and hooked up to the Mix Pre 3 to stripped down to be mounted on my gimbal. Eventually I may own two of them and one can have this setup with the cage and port protector and one permanently mounted on the gimbal but until then, I'm stuck not protecting that port.
 
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