Nightmare Client Rant / Advice

J

JonathanLB

Carbonite Member
I know there's that great thread, firing a nightmare client, and this is somewhat related but it started as a dream client and has become a nightmare, and I'm increasingly stressed about what to do.

The deal is big for us, in all almost $100,000, and numerous community tour videos plus we did a commercial already (first finished project for them), and we're supposed to do a training video.

Let me just lay this out as simply as possible. So when we first started speaking with them, they made it clear they wanted a focus on testimonials and not on the properties themselves as much because "it's all about the people." This was repeatedly emphasized. I expressed concerns on my end that if we don't focus on getting great property shots as well, we're going to end up with a lot of "talking head" scenarios and it's going to be extremely visually boring. There is also the obvious fact that when you hear someone talking about something, you enjoy seeing visuals related to that -- think about how they do re-enactments for Cops or for Court TV or whatever else. People like visuals along with stories...

They told us also that they were a bigger fan of "natural, documentary-style interactions caught spur of the moment showing our residents interacting with the staff," and that basically they wanted it to come across as unstaged and fly-on-the-wall type of filming. This was during a conference call, one of several, and I again expressed my concern or at least warned them very specifically, by saying, "Ok we can definitely do that, I just want to throw it out there that when we're going for more naturalistic, documentary-style shots, that means we can't pull out the heavy equipment like the dolly, the jib, and we won't be able to light those shots either. If we're really just capturing moments as they happen, it's going to be pretty much camera and tripod stuff." The marketing lady said that was ok because they want it to seem natural and not staged and have it be like we're just filming what actually happens rather than creating situations just for filming purposes. So I said, alright, I just thought you should be aware.

I choose music for this video that I still think is fantastic, very upbeat, makes you feel good, it's fun music. They didn't like it because "it's too repetitive." So of all things, and you'll love this, they suggest music (I let them take a look through the stock music site) that is a 55 second loop... for a 3+ minute video. The guy even said, "I realize the irony in saying your track was repetitive then choosing this loop that's 55 seconds." I heard it, and I hated it. I told my sales lady right away it was just terrible and I was actually angry that my creative decision got vetoed for something awful that I wasn't going to put on my site, that I would seriously make my own edit of this video just because of the music and we'll put the GOOD music on our portfolio. She thought I was overreacting and was like oh come on it's not your style but it's good stuff, your musical selection was too upbeat. So I said yeah ok whatever, they are the client, fine, whatever they want of course we'll do. They're paying. Whoever pays the bill gets the ultimate decision, I'm ALL for that! But I did note my objection and simply wrote back, "I don't think it's very strong music as far as I don't see it editing together well, and it's going to be repetitive because it will loop 3-4 times. But if you want that music of course I'll be happy to add it." So I add it, and we meet with the client about our last edit last week. Things seemed to be good, we setup filming dates for the next 4 properties, everything seemed just fine. They had some changes they suggested but called our first edit that they saw "a great start."

I'm leaving out a LOT here that I can't get away with leaving out, actually...

Before we showed them this edit, the filming day was a nightmare. Despite us telling them testimonials have to be in only 2 places because we can't keep setting them up everywhere AND film a huge, 100,000+ square foot property (200,000 sq. ft plus?), they ignored our feedback. When I told them it was throwing off our schedule, the lady there said well just do your best and make it work. So we didn't use our jib and dolly nearly as much for the property shots because we were so rushed just to get what they wanted. We were being yelled at by 4 people and I was trying to get what they wanted and make it all work. Long story short, we got there before anyone else (none of the executive staff was there when I arrived), and we left after everyone else -- 13 hour day, and it also took 1.5 hours driving each way to get to the property. Worked very hard, but because of the NINE testimonials in FIVE locations (not 2) we didn't get as many good property shots as I wanted, or with the equipment I wanted.

Out of my own pocket, because i was not pleased with the results, I said we'd like to go back for a few hours for some basic pickup shots. THEY changed their mind and said they wanted model unit shots, even though when we were there the lady said, "Nah we don't need the model unit in the video, it's not important, it's just an empty apartment, what's important is the people." Then they decided, oh, well, we actually DO want the model unit. So I said ok I'll get it when I go back. I show up for the pickup shots with just my camera guy, because we were going in light this time not with the heavy equipment, just to get some basic staff-resident interactions, some artistic shots, a few inserts, and the model unit (too small to use a dolly in anyway). I show up, the executive director is there after 15 minutes or so, and I ask, "Hey so it'd be super helpful for us if you could have someone who could go around with us just for a few hours so we can nail these shots that we need for the video." We needed someone because doors are locked, the residents are not familiar with us (outsiders), and we wanted someone to help smooth things along so we could make this the best video possible for them. This was scheduled 10 days in advance, by the way. But she had been out on her honeymoon. So she said, "Well this is all very last minute for me, all of my staff is busy, we have meetings, so no, I'm sorry, but you're on your own. I can't help you." She walked into her office or the back office area and I did not speak to or see her the rest of the day. I had to beg lower level employees for help while everyone else seemed to be annoyed that we were even there. Now, this made me feel pretty bad because I took money out of my pocket and my profits to do this for them, without being asked, because I wanted to make sure they were completely happy and that's how I like to run my business.

I paid my editor extra money for dealing with the new footage, too. The pickup shooting took 5 hours, not including driving, when I meant for it to take 2-3 tops, because since nobody was with us, everything took longer, and we had no residents to film with staff most of the time. We had to just wait until something happened rather than someone helping let us know where the action was or maybe getting some residents to play cards for us or do something that we could film. The attitude was basically "go screw yourself, figure it out on your own."

So fast-forward to today. We've been working on a new edit for these guys for a while now, and the delay is because they told us they wanted to see ALL of our testimonial footage and choose for themselves exactly what seconds were used in the video. Umm, well, ok, it's their video -- if they want to put in that much time, go for it, knock yourselves out! I felt bad for my editor because he did all of the initial work, and we should have asked these guys before how they wanted to do this. Maybe we should have said, "Ok we can pick what we think is the strongest testimonial footage and edit it together in a logical fashion, or you can pick it all yourselves." But part of me feels that it's our job to edit and they should be hiring us for a reason -- because they trust our judgment. Because they like my previous work and believe I can do a great job. If they don't care what we think, and don't want to trust me, the editor, the cinematographer, anyone, to do our jobs as professionals, I'm honestly really confused why they hired us at all!

Today, we were told they didn't like the cinematography, the editing, or the music. That's right, they don't like the music they selected, that I told them before I wasn't a big fan of myself. And now they expect me, for the third time, to purchase another music track? Umm... I don't really feel that's fair when they selected the music and are suddenly saying they don't like it, haha. As for the cinematography, they said that there are shots that are too "home video-ish" as in they are not jib or dolly shots, essentially, or they aren't perfectly lit. I fully agree with this, but they wanted us to capture things as they happened documentary-style and that is what my DP tried to do. This is the part anyone here will really love, because it's the most insulting and absurd. They said that they want a new DP if we were to do other work for them because my DP made some mistakes like cutting off a part of someone's hair during an interview. LOL, it's nice to have amateurs tell you what to do, when my DP has more than 10 years of industry experience. What they are seeing is a medium shot where you see the table in front of a lady, a nice flower arrangement off to the side, and 2 inches of head room. THEN there is another guy who is interviewed and we see from his shoulders up, with only his hair cut off (no forehead), which is totally standard as it's a closer shot. Here is even a passage from Blain Brown's book on cinematography (I had him as a teacher actually back in the day): "The idea is simply that the forehead and hair convey less information than the lower part of the face and neck. A head shot cut off above the eyebrows seems perfectly normal." In our case it was a tiny haircut.

I find it pretty fresh the client thinks they are pros in cinematography now. My DP just finished shooting a film with Vivica A. Fox, what does he know?! He's only been doing this a decade, not like he makes a living off it or anything!

Just a few days ago, they told us they were happy with our work and we got a really good vibe from them, and we were on board to shoot four more properties, everything seemed to be great, and there were only a few changes to go. Then all of the sudden they pulled a 180 and start saying everything is wrong, and contradicting themselves repeatedly.

What is a good way to attempt to work with a client like this? I feel that we need to communicate our frustration that we have been TRYING to meet their needs and give them what they want, but that if they change their minds mid-way through or have inconsistent goals for the project, we're not going to be able to do a good job for them and get them what they expect to see. I don't think it's going to work for me to do the rest of the projects for them if this communication doesn't improve drastically, and I really don't feel like sitting there and just being the whipping boy and letting the client continue to treat us this way. I feel there has to come a certain point where we say, look, we are really devoted to doing a great job for you and we've put so much into building this relationship, but ultimately we can only do so much and if you're not going to be consistent and you're going to continue changing your mind, we aren't going to be able to work together.
 
Wow sorry to hear your troubles and unfortunately 'the client is always right'. I find a great technique is to flip everything back on them in the form of a question, like

'Sure we can do that! We can do it this way costing this much extra or that way costing that much extra, which would you like to do?'.

Try to keep your communications via email with a cc on everybody involved that way you have it in writing. If an important decision is being made verbally you can add at the end something like ...

'Great! Thats settled then. Let me summarize it all in an email for you so you ca reply and we can move forward.'

These days with iPhones you should be able to take care of that even when on location.

It also sounds like your clients has the 'too many cooks in the kitchen' problem which might explain them going back on their own decisions. In that situation I usually 2nd guess them and try to make arrangements to get the extra material at the time without them knowing, that way bets are hedged and it looks cool when you effortlessly pull a rabbit out the hat and save the day.

If the client has openly said that they don't like the work so far you're in a tricky situation. It could be that you are hearing the voice of one of their decision makers and not the other in which case things can change back around again just as quick. Or it could be that they are looking for an excuse to switch the production to someone else and fire you. Be careful, you have to feel them out and keep a cool head. Definitely don't go out of your way spending money on them unless its loose change. See if you can track down past videos that they have done and get in contact with the production. Get an idea of the MO of this client. It may be that they are ratbags and diss all over whomever they hire then move on to the next without giving a hoot about building long term relationships. If this is the case cut your losses and run. Also it may be that they genuinely don't know what they want but are trying to make it look like they do.

Whatever the case DONT' sit their and take it like a whipping boy because if you build a relationship with a basis like that you will end up hating yourself.

Once again I will stress what I said at the start, keep a cool head and stay positive during communications , maintain your ground firmly and politely. Don't contradict them, instead where possible flip it back in the form of a question or a choice and make sure your extra charge is connected to each option. Good luck bro!
 
Ok thanks a lot for that, I really appreciate that advice. That's good... I admit that right now, I'm angry, I'm not going to lie. I mean it's a huge contract for us and losing it means a good chance of not continuing in business (probably just hoping my feature film works out and transitioning into just mainstream film work, may have an opportunity to assist these producers I'm working with, which right now is sounding better than corporate work). But at the same time, I guess from my perspective, if this is what I can expect of most clients then honestly? I'd rather go flip burgers at McDonalds, and I'm not joking. At least then I could clock in and clock out and write screenplays at night. This isn't worth it. Money-wise, or stress-wise, I cannot continue this way, so something has to change.

At our last meeting, we sat there with them and they talked about being happy with our work, they are airing a TV commercial we made for them that they said they loved, and we showed it to a competing company of theirs and that company hired us based on that commercial (!), so clearly we're not doing lousy work here. I really thought all of the elements were coming together and my company was finally starting to boom, busy with a ton of stuff now, but losing this contract would be a crushing blow. Think Lakers without Kobe Bryant. The team is done for the year. This company was even joking they don't want to refer us to the competition because they don't want us doing great work for them, haha. So we were so positive, thinking everything was working out great, and then suddenly they aren't happy at all with this video that we thought was progressing nicely based on their feedback, and suddenly they don't want to do 4 more projects with us right away because they're nervous about the quality.

I'm starting to feel like they're wanting us to fight for every project, like in other words do ONE more project to "prove" ourselves (forget all of the other work I've done in their industry that proves I can do the work if you let me!), and now I'm thinking well ok I mean... I guess it'd be worth giving it another go and adjusting things so that this time I can nail my vision for it and make sure that it goes much more smoothly, then seeing where the chips land. But who knows, they could still come up with some reason they're unhappy again and we're back to square one basically.

It totally is like you said, though, decision by committee. We got an e-mail just two days ago that the video was "flowing much better and looking great!" and then today, they complained that it is "confusing" and doesn't flow at all. Yet nothing changed between two days ago and now except corrections they had highlighted, like things they told us to change. And they told us the exact order of the testimonials they wanted, by the way, which they were in charge of those testimonials. So if there's a problem with the flow, I'm a bit confused because this is the way they said they wanted it!
 
Be careful about building your business around one client. I work in advertising here in manattan and have done since the late nineties. I've seen this countless times where a small agency builds around one client and then goes under when they get dropped. Its in the nature of the business to keep changing and switching so even if you are sailing along sweetly be prepared for your client relationship to end at anytime. Occasionally **** does go right and you end up with a long term client that is a cash cow but just don't expect or plan on it.

I noticed you used the words 'I mean it's a huge contract for us and losing it means a good chance of not continuing in business'. Were'nt you in business before these guys came along? Don't get discouraged, take it in your stride. If they ditch you then in your mind you gotta see it like you never had the contract anyway, no biggie move along. Try not to dream your future company around it even though its tempting.
 
I think J Davis' advice is solid. I would also ask yourself what you could have done better. How much of this is your own fault? As an example, during the conference call when they said they are a fan of the "documentary-style" and you discussed this with them (presumably for at least several minutes), did you follow-up by sending them a few examples of what that looks like to you (eg. YouTube clips of something comparable, even if different subject)? They most likely would have responded with, "Uh...no," which opens the door for you to ask them specifically what it is they don't like about the examples. In the end, you'd get a much better idea of what they meant...before you start shooting.

As another example, I think you should have planned to get B-roll of the property even if the client said they wanted to focus strictly on the people. You are the expert. You know you'll need to add cutaways during a testimonial, even if only to cover up a mistake.



Very few clients can visualize the final output, whether its a product, a service or a video. A big part of your job is to help your client make the right decision. If you are unable to convince them through discussion, try showing them the impact of their decision before it's too late and it costs someone (either you or them) a lot of wasted money!

As far as what to do with this client now...it still doesn't sound to me like you know who the decision-maker is. I mean, the ultimate decision-maker. You need to find this out! Otherwise, you are destined to face the same issues with each of your next four property shoots. Usually, the ultimate decision-maker is the man/woman who's cutting the check or controlling the budget. When decisions are made, you should automatically copy the ultimate decision-maker on the summary email (as J Davis suggests). When there is a discrepancy, you should escalate to the ultimate decision-maker. Escalation is your friend!

I would also recommend keeping a decision log and a change request log (simple spreadsheets work great for this). Every time a decision or change is made, you log it: what the decision/change was, when it was made, who made it, who agreed to it, and other comments. And you send it to the client once a week in a "status report." That way, you can refer back to the log when you really need to.

I have used this technique to keep a project on track and to negotiate more money for a project. I am working on a $1/2M+ project with a client right now (It's an interactive website, not a video/film). We are a month away from launch. As part of the final review, the client requested four more changes. I went back to them and said we could make those changes but they were going to cost them $70k. They pushed back. I went back to the change log and did a rough calculation of everything we had already given them free of charge (which ate into our contribution margin but not enough to go below our target for the project). The freebies came up to $53k. They agreed to pay the $70k change request fee.
 
J David -- with a film company like ours, it doesn't really work that way as far as having a long-term client, no, that is not what I was saying. I'm saying that we don't have enough other clients right now to justify me paying my sales lady and staying in business if we lose this contract. Unless some other big deal comes along. We are a startup company, and while things are progressing nicely or were before this crisis, losing that money means it's hard to justify staying in business beyond a few months from now. If that is the case I will probably just focus on the feature I'm directing and transition into other work. We've felt like we had this contract, then lost it, then had it again several times, because of the strange communication on the part of the client, but we certainly need it financially speaking. It's our first big deal. My last work was with a previous company, which I held with a business partner. This is my own company so it's still in startup mode. Oh well, I mean yeah, I'm going to do my best to salvage the situation but I'm not going to grovel for it. I want to lay out the facts and see if we can continue working together, and tell them how we can all make sure we're on the same page the next go-around, but if they don't trust that it's going to be a better experience and I don't trust them to communicate effectively or give us what we need to do our jobs, then I don't think it'll work moving forward.

coddidda -- Of course, I ignored the client's idea that we weren't going to need a lot of property shots, I still planned on getting as much as I could because it's a gorgeous property. I really like the YouTube idea, I had a friend suggest that as well, to get on the same page visually so we can make sure we know what we're all talking about. It's a great thought, so thanks for that! I really like that. It's true though, the client can't be expected to visualize what the project will be like or to make all of these decisions, but the problem is if the client is really pushy and tries to micromanage you, which has been the case here, then it's very difficult to do your job. You don't want to be rude and ignore what you're being told to do. I know who the decision-maker is, it's very clear, but what I don't know is how many other voices she has who she listens to. I know several, but who knows whether the company's president is involved in looking at the videos too. I haven't met anyone above the marketing director. This lady's assistant in marketing even told us at lunch before she arrived that she tries to micromanage everything and she drives herself crazy with that, haha, I mean it can be a good thing -- she cares, like he said, she's hands-on, which I appreciate. But I also think that she has to let go enough to let us do our jobs and give her and the company the best work we can.
 
if i can provide a somewhat dissenting opinion based on my experience: the client is not always right. and when they're wrong it's our responsibility to respectfully communicate why. we produce behind the scenes docs for the studios' dvd and blu-ray releases (fox, paramount, universal, etc) and even they need to be told what's possible to accomplish on their budget. they generally determine three things: the amount of money there is to work with, approval of our concepts for the documentaries and the final deadline and specs for delivery. they can be helpful in setting up interviews and gathering additional media assets. and they often have notes on the edit (creative and legal), but not all their notes are doable or a well thought out decision and when they're not, we tell them and it's no problem. everything is a discussion. we don't let them steamroll us just because it's their money. we always get half upfront and half on delivery. if they say no, we tell them that's how its done. they've hired us for our expertise in this field and for our leadership on the project. this makes it sound like we are tough on our clients. but the truth is we've built a foundation on friendly and creative exchanges, buying them gift baskets, etc and nurturing a pleasant relationship with a reputation for cutting-edge and beautifully executed content. our clients like us. but we have to set the tone for who is making decisions. I understand the mindset that says the people with the money call the shots, and we ran into some problems early in our company's first gigs because we were afraid to lose them. but we quickly learned things flowed much better toward better results when we understood that the client (whether they realize it or not) needed to be managed and given direction throughout the course of the project. sometimes we have to be stern and say "no" respectfully. we do it all the time and we've never lost a client because of it.
 
Zak... I really appreciate what you wrote there and your advice! Unfortunately, I am learning this the hard way, and just wrote to my sales lady basically some of what you said there, that we have been letting them basically dictate every element of the project because we were so afraid to lose them, and we wanted to make them happy decision-by-decision rather than focusing on the final outcome -- the finished project.

I told my sales lady shortly after the shoot even that I needed to focus on making the client happy *at the end* rather than at the moment. One prime example is a testimonial that is largely responsible for killing the shoot in general. We were on schedule, doing fairly well, despite some snafus early, until we were told we had to go upstairs to the second floor to an apartment to interview this couple. I asked the executive director if it would be possible for them to come down to the library where the other testimonials were taking place, because it would require a lot of time for us to lug lights and equipment upstairs, then set it all up, and bring it down, set it up in the library for the next testimonials, etc. She went and talked with them and then said to us that "they cleaned their apartment especially for you guys, they really don't want to move," etc. When we got up there, because I said ok well whatever you want, we'll make it work, my DP turned to me and said, "This looks terrible... I don't know if I can film here, I mean it's too small to light well." I asked him if he could at least make it look pretty decent, and he said he'd do his best but honestly it wasn't going to be good. I expressed this concern to her, and basically was told to proceed anyway. Now they hate how that interview looks, and as a result of the time it took (to get a pretty mundane-looking testimonial), we lost the opportunity to make a lot of other shots look better, too. What I realized in retrospect is that I should have been stubborn right there, because having this lady be a bit annoyed with me yet having a much better quality testimonial and more time to do other shots well would have absolutely been worth it. I should have just told her, "Ok well we explained to corporate that all testimonials need to occur in 2 places, and so far we've filmed them in 3 already, upstairs would make 4, and library would make 5. We're already running tight on time and if you'd like the testimonial they need to come downstairs for it. Otherwise, it's ok, we'll make do without that testimonial."

Also, the schedule was pretty crammed, and I should have said something earlier. I should have just said, no, this schedule is too full, we cannot shoot everything AND have it meet our quality standards, so we're going to need to cut down here. Instead I tried to make them happy and say yes to everything. Don't get me wrong, I always expressed my concerns, but ultimately I let them dictate terms and tell us what to do, and I think I should have stood firm and said, I'm sorry but this won't work, based on my experience, and if we do it this way it will have disastrous consequences for the shoot. I think if I was more stubborn about it, they would have realized I wasn't trying to be difficult, I was really trying to make sure the quality was what they expected.
 
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