night time lighting

Jason Miller

Jason Miller

Veteran
Hello, this summer I'm making a film which a large part of will be shot outside at night, so I need some advice,

first the equipment,

Hvx200, 35mm lens adapter, not sure which one yet, still looking.

two 1k large softboxes,

4 500w photofloods, the cheap smith victor kind,

1 650w sv spot,

and I'll have access to 4 arries, 2 650w spots, and I believe 2 1000w floods, I can get any number of gells and reflectors, and I may be able to get one or two more lights if needed,


situation, night time, beside a warehouse, outside, as well as inside 2 cars, 4 people in 1 car 5 in the other, to much to shoot to shoot at dusk and dawn, this wil be 3 to 5 all nighters to get it shot.

two conversations, one in each car, one car is waiting for the other, as car 2 pulls up car 1 takes off and cuts car 2 off, two of the people in car 1 get out and start shooting at car 1, car one empties out as the shoot back, soon 8 of the 9 people are out of the cars, 4 people run into the building two are shot dead, two remain outside, and shoot at car one untill it blows up with person 9 inside of it. (3d) mixed with live action, and greenscreen shot, two guys who blow up the car, then start to pure gas all over the place, scene ends with then setting the warehouse on fire (3d particles and fluids),

I want it to have some nice blues, some orange in the background, I want the blacktop wet with light reflecting off of it, and light off the cars, will not be black, hoping red and yellow, some outfits will be black, long blach leather dusters with leather 501 kangal hats,

looking for good quality, nice contrast not noir, but some nice dark light contrast all the same.

am thankful for any advice on this matter

hope this wasn't to convoluted.


thank you
Jason Miller
 
Your going to need a 2.5 (2500) hmi on a condor(cherry picker) or from the roof of a nearby building or telephone pole to catch all of this AT LEAST....
 
a 2.5 hmi is not an option, however I may be able to get a 3k Arri fresnel, dont have a location yet, so I'm not sure on how practicle it will be to hang it high,
this is a very low budget student film, its my final thesis project, so while it has to look like I spent bookoo, I can only aford to spend maybe one more grand on it, but I have the camera, lights, access to school equipment, lighting dolly, jib,

Anyone in the San Francisco, bay area willing to help out, I would be thankful, I've never dont a project of this scale before.

Jason Miller
 
The 3k ? they make a 3K ?? Anyway, this would help. Can you shoot the night of a full moon ? lol
You will probably have to establish location practicals in your shot to make it somewhat believeable. The light from the pole in the parking lot or driveway, lights from other buildings, the car lights themselves. You will have to use several of these to help light your actors. You may even need to chase an actor or two with a car, just to light them(Like someone is going to run them down) If someone is going to duck down behind a car to reload their gun, seeing one of the other cars headlights coming from underneath the car he is hiding behind, is an effective use of the head lights. When he /she stands up to return fire, the headlight would also act as his/her key light.
Now you and I both know that many films shot at night, do not have completely believeable sources of light. You can "Cheat" lights in, in several places.
Black coats, black Kangol hats...At night...? your really going to need some serious backlight or separation to define the edge of their bodies and heads against the darkness of night.
Can you post a photo of your location and where your staging everything as well as your thoughts on blocking ??
 
Find a location first, then ask your question.!
You want specific answers, we can't give 'em to ya with out something to go on. We can speculate all day...Find your spot, show us a photo, and you'll have at least 10-20 answers. for ya ..Do your homework, go out and scout !.
"How do you light a gun battle at night?" Where is your location ? Can I have access to power, or do we rent the generator, I can think of 60-70 questions to ask before I can even speculate... You want more ideas, but other than the action you have planned, I have practical needs to answer to before I can offer advice about lighting.. My earlier response, albeit guessing, was just that, a guess.
 
it will be an open space, black top, wet, will be warehouses around, and at lease one angle where you can see off into the distance, two cars, gun flashes will be post, fire will be post explosions will be post, will not need a generator, will use the power there,

I need generic answers on how to light a large space to give it pleanty of light but still look as if its night time. i.e. blue and dark, it isn't a location question, not asking about light placement, not asking about euipment needed as I have what I have, and nto much more, I will not have the location for at least a month, I need ideas on lighting now, before I deside on the location.

need ideas on how to use the lights i have to

1 creat a nice even moonlight look over maybe 50 yards, dark with reflections on shinny and wet objects,

2 need ideas on lighting close up objects to look as if they are outside "seen my naked eye, after the eye has adjusted to thelack of light, "

these answers will ne the same at every night time exterior location.

thank you
Jason Miller
 
For your key use a 1 or 2K hard light on your actors from a 3/4 rear or 7:30 position at 45 degrees high (a normal key being 1/4 front or 1:30 o clock at 45 degrees high) this will sell night time... i don't know why it does, but it does. Bounce some fill in front of their faces. Or fill them with something soft.

Throw a large HMI light on a tree line way way back there. Position that on the ground off camera right or left. If it's fairly even people won't question why the trees are lit... they just are.

Gel as you see fit (moon, streetlight, etc. etc.).
 
I hate to be an additional bearer of bad news but there is no way you are going to be ablt to use any of the 35mm adaptors out there on the HVX without HMIs. My best advice for you is to get some buddies together and go do a night of testing at the location with all of the lights you have available at least 2 weeks before you shoot there (hopefully more).

I did a shoot last fall with my HVX and only the stock lens, 1/2 of it was outside at night. I read a ton of info got a lot of advice to use HMIs. I chose to ignore that advice and used all tungsten lights: 1 Arri 2k, 1 Arri 1k, 2 Lowel DP 1ks and about 10 smaller arris and lowels. It was a disaster, the footage really suffered in any scene that had any more then about a 10'x10' area visible.

I am now planning to reshoot all of the night scenes this summer and have aquired more lights as follows:

3- 1.2k HMIs
1-2.5k HMI
2- 2k Tungsten
3- 1k Tungsten
8 or so various smaller tungsten lights

Obviously I will be primarily using the HMIs for this. My point is that for my project this was the minimum I figured would work to do it right. If your shoot is just 1 or 2 nights you may be able to rent a couple of HMIs for your $1k you had mentioned you may be able to spend. I would really really recommend it, especially if you say this scene will make or break your project.

I hope this helps, feel free to PM me any questions any I will do my best to help with advice.
 
I like to go mac guyver style... i just take 3 toothpicks, an AA batery, a plastick spoon, a hub cap and a white umbrella and all of my night footage looks gorgeous!!!.... j/k but definitely go with the HMI.... the more light the better.... as for making it look like night i would CC in post and do some blue gels... with some street light gels placed where needed. just a thought... good luck man and props to taking on something that makes you grow as a filmmaker!
 
A 3K arri is just 3K of light but a 2.5k HMI is the equivalent of at least a 7.5K tungsten. That's one reason HMI is so important for nighting / outdoors work. You're more likely to find power for the 2.5K than for the 7.5K if you see what i mean.
 
I think he is going for a night scene, not a bright parking lot...

I shot a music video in a parking lot at night and i used 2 650w softboxes and a little 150w arri, and that seemed too bright at times ofcourse that was on the basis of shooting towards one area...i dont know how much your going to break up the action or amounts of area your going to try to cover in one scene.

This is what my shots looked like....

ORIGINAL
www.clients.matthewconrad.com/still01.jpg
CC
http://www.clients.matthewconrad.com/still02.jpg
 
thanks for the advice, any more idea. I can use as many as you guys got.

I am thinking hmi, but not 2.5 is I go with hmi it will have to be 2 1200s rather than one 2.5 as I
ll have no power for a light that size. everything I think must work on 110 i've found a guy who knows a guy who has a 1200 joker for rent cheap, so we'll see, I'm planning on shooting in 4 nights, with a 5th to be safe.

Jason Miller
Jason
 
The main problem with the lens adapter is it stops down your camera a little so the scene needs to be brighter. If I were you, I would avoid wide shots like the plague. By doing this, you only have to light the background and foreground of a much smaller area. If you need an establishing shot, shoot it at dusk, or dawn, and then move in after that. There is always the crappy option of day-for-night too. Bring as many reflectors as you can. If you don't have them get cardboard and a lot of tin foil. Don't waste your light, recycle it. ALSO pay attention to how many amps you are drawing. You don't want to blow any breakers. Because your actors are wearing dark colors, it will take more to light them. make sure you put a little rim light on them, light the background separate, and then worry about the front. Use the soft boxes for fill and plan on using hard light for your key light if there are lights that will be shown in frame, and if it is supposed to be moonlight, only use soft light. Personally I wouldn't worry about tinting the lights during production to get your blues. If you need to see what it will look like after color correcting, put a ctb blue gel over your lens and then remove it before calling action so you get as much light into the camera as possible, or white balance to a cool card, even to a ctb blue gel against a white peice of paper, however you are using color gain on some cameras when you do this and I'm not sure about the color temp your camera likes. If you gel the lights, you lose light. You can easily change the color in post so do it in post. If you shoot your wide shots at dusk, make sure you match the look once it gets dark for continuity. I'll post more later, but for now, I'm off to a shoot!
 
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