Night Lighting
- Thread starter JackMaht
- Start date
Noah
Well-known member
Get a nice size HMI par (or 2 or 3...) a good distance away from your subject, maybe with a little extra CTB or some coral, etc - it depends on how blue and what blue you think moonlight should look like.
The problem comes when people only light for their subject. This isn't just a problem in night exteriors, but in all shots, and particularly night shots. Light for your environment! I typically light for the environment first and then light for my subject.
The problem comes when people only light for their subject. This isn't just a problem in night exteriors, but in all shots, and particularly night shots. Light for your environment! I typically light for the environment first and then light for my subject.
To successfully do this you need a HUGE light source. Its a tough shot on a budget, but can be done.
Disco Robo
Well-known member
I'll bite. I assume you have a little to no money budget to do this, if i am wrong hire a gaffer and forget about it. However, assuming my first assumption is correct it is quite easy to light for nighttime using some blue gel and conventional tungsten lights. The trick is composing your shots to preserve the illusion you are creating. Keep it tight, use the darkness to your advantage and to create interest within a scene. You may have noticed that very few if any movies actually have realistic nighttime lighting. It's up to you whether or not to create a realistic look. Also keep in mind that there's not one lighting setup that will work for the whole scene so be flexible. Good Luck.
filmat11
Well-known member
Disco Robo has some great advice, as well as everyone.
Even your story line is important to the approach of this lighting set up. The reason I asked what your location is, plays to many options, as well as narrowing the approach.
The fact that you said it's a WWII story, can even narrow it more. Types of practicals, realistic fixtures(if seen), even construction methods.
I will share some things that I have done, and what I have noticed in films that I have seen, but these may or may not work for you.
In many dark outdoor shoots, backlight is important to seperate the subject from the dark of night. Nothing like having a dark haired actor get lost in your shot, because you can't even see him. Since it's hard to always have a backlight on someone, especially if they are moving, the backlighted background will offer some help with this separation from the background, and your actor can wal through smaller pools of light. These can be made by lights fired through tree branches, and then leave an openning as if the light from the moon, is hitting your actors face, in a small clearing. I would suggest you back or side light the background..ie. tree's, the barbed wire or fence near the farm. Smoke can hide equipment ,and help bring out interesting lighting, especially if your scene revolves
say .."A guy behind enemy lines"...Let him use his own flashlight, and he can help the filming by being his own gaffer. He can fire his flashlight into some reflector board, while a grip is carrying it.
Other people have suggested a large source of light. Their right....
A large , large, 5k,6k or even 12k would be great from say a 30ft-50 ft Condor (bucket truck with a lift arm) This of course needs a genny truck to run.
If your budget can not support this, which may run you close to $ 1,200 to
$ 2,500, depending on what part of the country your in, and equipment availability. You can attempt this by using portable generators, (that will fit in a van or pickup truck, and a few 2k lights, but closer to the action.
You might want to side light the barn, and use a few chinese lanterns inside the barn. I would use smaller wattage bulbs in the chinese lanterns, just to bring up the ambiance in the barn, and perhaps bring one closer to your talent if they light up a gas lantern or perhaps an Arri 150, dimmed down, and with only the faintest amount of diffusion, as torches and candles give off hard shadows...You would want to mimic this, if you go this route. The rules," what can we get away with" what's expected, and what is real, are all different things in night lighting. Every TV show and film you watch will handle this differently, just like everyone on this board may have a different opinion. I hope I was helpful, and keep an open mind.
I could have easily overlooked some obvious things to consider, and others , hopefully will chime in with their suggestions as well.
****I just watched "All the Kings Men" on DVD, check out the night scene in the first 5 minutes of the film. It is preceded by several minutes of car interiors, then they arrive at a home set back from the main road. (in the middle of the night)
Probably was lit by a MUSCO truck ( Big arm,big crane) Good Luck.
Even your story line is important to the approach of this lighting set up. The reason I asked what your location is, plays to many options, as well as narrowing the approach.
The fact that you said it's a WWII story, can even narrow it more. Types of practicals, realistic fixtures(if seen), even construction methods.
I will share some things that I have done, and what I have noticed in films that I have seen, but these may or may not work for you.
In many dark outdoor shoots, backlight is important to seperate the subject from the dark of night. Nothing like having a dark haired actor get lost in your shot, because you can't even see him. Since it's hard to always have a backlight on someone, especially if they are moving, the backlighted background will offer some help with this separation from the background, and your actor can wal through smaller pools of light. These can be made by lights fired through tree branches, and then leave an openning as if the light from the moon, is hitting your actors face, in a small clearing. I would suggest you back or side light the background..ie. tree's, the barbed wire or fence near the farm. Smoke can hide equipment ,and help bring out interesting lighting, especially if your scene revolves
say .."A guy behind enemy lines"...Let him use his own flashlight, and he can help the filming by being his own gaffer. He can fire his flashlight into some reflector board, while a grip is carrying it.
Other people have suggested a large source of light. Their right....
A large , large, 5k,6k or even 12k would be great from say a 30ft-50 ft Condor (bucket truck with a lift arm) This of course needs a genny truck to run.
If your budget can not support this, which may run you close to $ 1,200 to
$ 2,500, depending on what part of the country your in, and equipment availability. You can attempt this by using portable generators, (that will fit in a van or pickup truck, and a few 2k lights, but closer to the action.
You might want to side light the barn, and use a few chinese lanterns inside the barn. I would use smaller wattage bulbs in the chinese lanterns, just to bring up the ambiance in the barn, and perhaps bring one closer to your talent if they light up a gas lantern or perhaps an Arri 150, dimmed down, and with only the faintest amount of diffusion, as torches and candles give off hard shadows...You would want to mimic this, if you go this route. The rules," what can we get away with" what's expected, and what is real, are all different things in night lighting. Every TV show and film you watch will handle this differently, just like everyone on this board may have a different opinion. I hope I was helpful, and keep an open mind.
I could have easily overlooked some obvious things to consider, and others , hopefully will chime in with their suggestions as well.
****I just watched "All the Kings Men" on DVD, check out the night scene in the first 5 minutes of the film. It is preceded by several minutes of car interiors, then they arrive at a home set back from the main road. (in the middle of the night)
Probably was lit by a MUSCO truck ( Big arm,big crane) Good Luck.
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Someone in a previous reply suggested shooting in day then using CC to it in post. As a user of Final Cut, does anyone know of a way to do it right in FCP or would I have to have third-party software like Magic Bullet? Now obviously using third-party software would look a LOT better, but hey $400 is a lot of money these days so if anyone knows of a simple remedy right in FCP or a free plug-in, do tell.
Jack
Jack
Blaine
Mr. Hollywood
You could use Nattress Film Effects. They're only $100.
Night Lighting
You can shift your overall color balance to the cool side in the camera or in post to create moonlight, but without a white light or warm light reference in the frame, your audience will subconsciously adjust and filter out your moonlight effect. It is the same phenomenon as when you put on colored tinted sun glasses. In time your mind adapts for the color tint. For this reason, I personally believe you should always combine color temperatures in night shots. Putting white or warm light in the frame gives your audience a reference point and they will not filter out a color effect like moonlight.
The traditional approach is to use a combination of 3200K (tungsten) and 5500K (HMI) light sources for night shooting because most high speed films and video imaging systems were balanced for 3200K (The Red Camera being the notable exception). With this approach HMIs are used to create blue moonlight and tungsten lights are used to create white or slightly warm lamp-light. In this approach CTO gels are used to either make the HMIs less blue or the tungsten lights warmer.
HMIs are expensive to own or rent, but using tungsten light sources to create cool moonlight for a night scene doesn’t make a lot of sense. Balancing tungsten to 5000K is not very efficient because full CTB cuts the output of the light by 70% in converting it to 5000K. A 1000W 3200K light becomes a 300W 5000K light when you put Full CTB on it. A 400 W HMI will give you considerably more lumens/watt than a color corrected Tungsten 1k, and use up a lot less power available from your generator.
As I said earlier, the Red Camera is the notable exception. With the Red Camera it makes more sense to use 5500K light sources like HMIs all around because the Red’s native color balance is 5000K. In this approach raw HMI light would provide white light, Half CTB gel would provide moonlight, and Qtr. CTO gel would provide warm lamp light. One of the downsides to lighting for the Red’s native color balance of 5000K is that HMIs are considerably more expensive to buy or rent.
A cost effective alternative to HMIs are Kino Flo florescent light fixtures because they can use either 3200K or 5500K tubes. When using 5500K tubes to light for the Red’s 5000K native color balance, you can warm the lights without losing output to CTO gels by simply mixing in 3200K tubes with the 5500k tubes. The drawback to using florescent light fixtures to light night scenes is that they generally have a very broad soft light output that drops off rapidly which means the units need to be positioned close to the subject they are lighting. This characteristic makes them better suited to lighting documentary interviews than dramatic night scenes. The one exception to that rule are the Kino Flo ParaBeam fixtures.
The Kino Flo ParaBeam fixtures use computer aided designed (CAD) parabolic reflectors that focus the light output at about 16 feet (5 meters). This feature makes the Kino Flo ParaBeams well suited for HD Digital Cinema, because it doubles the light output of the lamps where it is needed most for lighting dramatic scenes - at a medium distance. Compared to the Kino Flo Diva-Lite, which uses the same four 55 Watt compact lamps and the same ballast, the ParaBeam 400 is twice as bright at 12' – making them a suitable key source for lighting dramatic scenes. Kino Flo also makes available for the ParaBeam fixtures a number of innovative accessories that enhance their production capabilities for HD Digital Cinema. Accessories include barndoors, a gel frame, a diffusion panel, and Honeycomb Louvers. Honeycomb Louvers are available in 90, 60 and 45 degrees and provides beam control similar to that of swapping lenses on an HMI Par.
So that you can power more lights off your generator, I would recommend a lighting package that consists of HMI Pars to light your deep background, Kino Flo Parabeams to key your talent, and a traditional Kino Flo 4’ bank to fill. Though it will be harder to find in smaller heads at your local rental house, I would also recommend using HMI electronic ballasts with Power Factor Correction (PFC.) Formerly only available in the higher wattages, this advanced electronics reduces current spikes and harmonics in the power line and contributes to a more economical use of power. 800 & 1200 Watt ballasts with PFC use considerably less power than conventional electronic ballasts. A brand name to ask for is Power to Light (P2L). P2L is incorporating Power Factor Correction (PFC) into their 800w, 1200w, as well as 2.5kw/4kw. Where P2L PFC Electronic ballasts require less power to operate HMI lights, they enable you to operate not only more smaller HMI lights off of location power outlets, but also larger HMIs lights off of location power outlets than was possible before. For example, PFC enables P2L’s 4/2.5kw LVI ballast to run 4kw HMI lights off of standard wall outlets with the appropriate adapter.
In the interest of full disclosure, I should say that in addition to being a gaffer, I also own and operate a rental house that rents and sells a lot of the equipment recommended above. If it sounds like I’m hyping the P2L line it is not because we rent and sell them. We are also dealers and rental agents for Mole, Power Gems, and ARRI. As a professional Gaffer of a lot of tight budgeted historical documentaries for PBS’ American Experience and The History Channel (see my “credit-entials” on Imbd), I think these ballasts are a major development worth noting.
While not a tremendous advantage when plugging into house power, the power efficiency of PFC ballasts can make a huge difference when powering a lighting package off of portable generators. For example, where a Kino Flo Parabeam 400 draws only 2 amps, the 8 Amp difference between using a P2L PFC 1200W electronic ballast and standard non-PFC 1200W electronic ballasts, can mean the difference between running four additional Parabeam 400s on your portable generator or not – I think you would have to agree that is a major boost in production capability. And when you start to add up the incremental savings in power over multiple HMI ballasts in a lighting package, add to it the energy efficiency of light sources like LEDs and Kino Flos, and combine it with new distribution technology we have developed that provides 7500W of power in a single 120V circuit from a modified Honda EU6500is portable generator, you have what, I would argue, amounts to a paradigm shift in how to approach lighting night scenes.
For example, on a recent independent short shooting with the Red, I used our modified Honda EU6500is Generator to power a lighting package that consisted of a 2.5kw, 1200, & 800 HMI Pars (with PFC ballasts), a couple of Kino Flo Parabeam 400s, a couple of Parabeam 200s, and a Flat Head 80. Given the light sensitivity of the Red Camera, this was all the light we needed to light a large night exterior. The scene takes place behind a mall, rather than the woods, but the principles are the same: we used the 2.5 HMI par to light the deep background, the 1200 HMI par to light the near background, and the 800 Joker was mounted on a Source 4 Leko with a bug-a-beam adapter to create a window pattern on the ground from a building that doesn’t exist but you don’t see that in the movie. We used two Parabeam 400s to key the talent and a Kino Flo Flathead 80 to fill the entire scene.
Where we were using the Red, we pitched the color temperature of the lights to the Red’s native 5000K color balance as follows: the 2.5 & 1200 Pars were gelled with ½ CTB for moonlight. We put half CTO on the Joker 800 to create warm window light. We mixed 3200K tubes into the Parabeam 400 on the “window” side to create a warm key source motivated by the window. The Parabeam on the other side was gelled with ¼ CTB to create a cool key source motivated by the moonlight. Finally, we lamped the Flathead 80 with only 5500K tubes to create a slightly cool fill. To see the final results, use this link - www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/hdfilmstrip4lg.html - to our website where we have posted more detailed information on the lighting package we used along with production stills from the movie.
If we were using 3200K film or native 3200K Video, we would have pitched the color temperature of the lights as follows: the 2.5 & 1200 Pars would be gelled with ½ CTO for moonlight. We would have used the 750 HPL back on the Source Four instead of the Joker 800 and used half CTO on it to create warm window light. We would use all 3200K tubes in the Parabeam 400 on the “window” side and add half CTO to create a warm key source motivated by the window. We would lamp the Parabeam on the other side with half 3200K tubes and half 5500K tubes to create a cool key source motivated by the moonlight. Finally, we would lamp the Flathead 80 with only 3200K tubes to create a white fill. Even though it is a completely different approach the end result would not look a lot different than it does.
Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip
You can shift your overall color balance to the cool side in the camera or in post to create moonlight, but without a white light or warm light reference in the frame, your audience will subconsciously adjust and filter out your moonlight effect. It is the same phenomenon as when you put on colored tinted sun glasses. In time your mind adapts for the color tint. For this reason, I personally believe you should always combine color temperatures in night shots. Putting white or warm light in the frame gives your audience a reference point and they will not filter out a color effect like moonlight.
The traditional approach is to use a combination of 3200K (tungsten) and 5500K (HMI) light sources for night shooting because most high speed films and video imaging systems were balanced for 3200K (The Red Camera being the notable exception). With this approach HMIs are used to create blue moonlight and tungsten lights are used to create white or slightly warm lamp-light. In this approach CTO gels are used to either make the HMIs less blue or the tungsten lights warmer.
HMIs are expensive to own or rent, but using tungsten light sources to create cool moonlight for a night scene doesn’t make a lot of sense. Balancing tungsten to 5000K is not very efficient because full CTB cuts the output of the light by 70% in converting it to 5000K. A 1000W 3200K light becomes a 300W 5000K light when you put Full CTB on it. A 400 W HMI will give you considerably more lumens/watt than a color corrected Tungsten 1k, and use up a lot less power available from your generator.
As I said earlier, the Red Camera is the notable exception. With the Red Camera it makes more sense to use 5500K light sources like HMIs all around because the Red’s native color balance is 5000K. In this approach raw HMI light would provide white light, Half CTB gel would provide moonlight, and Qtr. CTO gel would provide warm lamp light. One of the downsides to lighting for the Red’s native color balance of 5000K is that HMIs are considerably more expensive to buy or rent.
A cost effective alternative to HMIs are Kino Flo florescent light fixtures because they can use either 3200K or 5500K tubes. When using 5500K tubes to light for the Red’s 5000K native color balance, you can warm the lights without losing output to CTO gels by simply mixing in 3200K tubes with the 5500k tubes. The drawback to using florescent light fixtures to light night scenes is that they generally have a very broad soft light output that drops off rapidly which means the units need to be positioned close to the subject they are lighting. This characteristic makes them better suited to lighting documentary interviews than dramatic night scenes. The one exception to that rule are the Kino Flo ParaBeam fixtures.
The Kino Flo ParaBeam fixtures use computer aided designed (CAD) parabolic reflectors that focus the light output at about 16 feet (5 meters). This feature makes the Kino Flo ParaBeams well suited for HD Digital Cinema, because it doubles the light output of the lamps where it is needed most for lighting dramatic scenes - at a medium distance. Compared to the Kino Flo Diva-Lite, which uses the same four 55 Watt compact lamps and the same ballast, the ParaBeam 400 is twice as bright at 12' – making them a suitable key source for lighting dramatic scenes. Kino Flo also makes available for the ParaBeam fixtures a number of innovative accessories that enhance their production capabilities for HD Digital Cinema. Accessories include barndoors, a gel frame, a diffusion panel, and Honeycomb Louvers. Honeycomb Louvers are available in 90, 60 and 45 degrees and provides beam control similar to that of swapping lenses on an HMI Par.
So that you can power more lights off your generator, I would recommend a lighting package that consists of HMI Pars to light your deep background, Kino Flo Parabeams to key your talent, and a traditional Kino Flo 4’ bank to fill. Though it will be harder to find in smaller heads at your local rental house, I would also recommend using HMI electronic ballasts with Power Factor Correction (PFC.) Formerly only available in the higher wattages, this advanced electronics reduces current spikes and harmonics in the power line and contributes to a more economical use of power. 800 & 1200 Watt ballasts with PFC use considerably less power than conventional electronic ballasts. A brand name to ask for is Power to Light (P2L). P2L is incorporating Power Factor Correction (PFC) into their 800w, 1200w, as well as 2.5kw/4kw. Where P2L PFC Electronic ballasts require less power to operate HMI lights, they enable you to operate not only more smaller HMI lights off of location power outlets, but also larger HMIs lights off of location power outlets than was possible before. For example, PFC enables P2L’s 4/2.5kw LVI ballast to run 4kw HMI lights off of standard wall outlets with the appropriate adapter.
In the interest of full disclosure, I should say that in addition to being a gaffer, I also own and operate a rental house that rents and sells a lot of the equipment recommended above. If it sounds like I’m hyping the P2L line it is not because we rent and sell them. We are also dealers and rental agents for Mole, Power Gems, and ARRI. As a professional Gaffer of a lot of tight budgeted historical documentaries for PBS’ American Experience and The History Channel (see my “credit-entials” on Imbd), I think these ballasts are a major development worth noting.
While not a tremendous advantage when plugging into house power, the power efficiency of PFC ballasts can make a huge difference when powering a lighting package off of portable generators. For example, where a Kino Flo Parabeam 400 draws only 2 amps, the 8 Amp difference between using a P2L PFC 1200W electronic ballast and standard non-PFC 1200W electronic ballasts, can mean the difference between running four additional Parabeam 400s on your portable generator or not – I think you would have to agree that is a major boost in production capability. And when you start to add up the incremental savings in power over multiple HMI ballasts in a lighting package, add to it the energy efficiency of light sources like LEDs and Kino Flos, and combine it with new distribution technology we have developed that provides 7500W of power in a single 120V circuit from a modified Honda EU6500is portable generator, you have what, I would argue, amounts to a paradigm shift in how to approach lighting night scenes.
For example, on a recent independent short shooting with the Red, I used our modified Honda EU6500is Generator to power a lighting package that consisted of a 2.5kw, 1200, & 800 HMI Pars (with PFC ballasts), a couple of Kino Flo Parabeam 400s, a couple of Parabeam 200s, and a Flat Head 80. Given the light sensitivity of the Red Camera, this was all the light we needed to light a large night exterior. The scene takes place behind a mall, rather than the woods, but the principles are the same: we used the 2.5 HMI par to light the deep background, the 1200 HMI par to light the near background, and the 800 Joker was mounted on a Source 4 Leko with a bug-a-beam adapter to create a window pattern on the ground from a building that doesn’t exist but you don’t see that in the movie. We used two Parabeam 400s to key the talent and a Kino Flo Flathead 80 to fill the entire scene.
Where we were using the Red, we pitched the color temperature of the lights to the Red’s native 5000K color balance as follows: the 2.5 & 1200 Pars were gelled with ½ CTB for moonlight. We put half CTO on the Joker 800 to create warm window light. We mixed 3200K tubes into the Parabeam 400 on the “window” side to create a warm key source motivated by the window. The Parabeam on the other side was gelled with ¼ CTB to create a cool key source motivated by the moonlight. Finally, we lamped the Flathead 80 with only 5500K tubes to create a slightly cool fill. To see the final results, use this link - www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/hdfilmstrip4lg.html - to our website where we have posted more detailed information on the lighting package we used along with production stills from the movie.
If we were using 3200K film or native 3200K Video, we would have pitched the color temperature of the lights as follows: the 2.5 & 1200 Pars would be gelled with ½ CTO for moonlight. We would have used the 750 HPL back on the Source Four instead of the Joker 800 and used half CTO on it to create warm window light. We would use all 3200K tubes in the Parabeam 400 on the “window” side and add half CTO to create a warm key source motivated by the window. We would lamp the Parabeam on the other side with half 3200K tubes and half 5500K tubes to create a cool key source motivated by the moonlight. Finally, we would lamp the Flathead 80 with only 3200K tubes to create a white fill. Even though it is a completely different approach the end result would not look a lot different than it does.
Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip