Newbie Question on how to shoot scenes

liquidsn

liquidsn

Member
Hi, hopefully this doesn't sound like a stupid question. (it is probelly)
I wanted to know how does someone shoot a scene. For example

A man waking up and going to the table and work and talk on the phone.

So I want to get a CU, Medium, far shot of the person though this scene. Do I,

Shoot all 3 types of shots all the way though? or the ones I think i will need. I guess I just don't want to get locked down to certain cuts that I would storyboard out. another example is shooting 2 people talking, and i want 2 shots, normal and reverse angle.

Do I, Shoot it twice all the way though and than just edit it in and out? or do i find the important parts and shoot that. (like only when they talk)

Also, If anyone can direct me to some resources to how this is done that would be greatful. Lots of books just show you where to place cameras and how to edit the film you get in, but I guess i haven't found one that shows how one goes about shooting it, and get enough video to cut in and out of.

hope this makes sense.

Thanks for the help

Tony C.
 
All you have to shoot is;
waking up in bed
sitting on the edge and getting up
feet walking to another room
sitting down at the table
dialing the phone, or picking it up
tite shot of dialogue on the phone
 
I'll work backwards here and start with the two people talking.

Consider a line that runs from one person throught the second. Keep your cameras to one side of that line. Easiest is to shoot two external reverses, and two internal reverses. Remember that on the externa reverses to keep at least two thirds of the horizontal framing on the person facing towards you. Depending on how involved you want the audience to be with that person move closer or farther away from the eyeline. Also for height of camera you want it just a bit lower than the eyeline and keep the eye level in the vertical frame about a third from top. To keep the size of the heads of the two characters closer in size move the camera back a bit and use a longer focal length shot. This will help compress the space between the two characters. When doing the internal reverses, instead of matching exactly for each you can decide which character you would like the audience to more closely identify with and give them a medium close up and for the other character a wide close up or if you don't want too much difference maybe a full close up to medium close up between.

Also consider how you get into and out of the scene. A master shot isn't always the most interesting because its generally uses closed framing, where as a shot with open framing provides a bit more interest and then you can use a reveal to bring one of the two characters into the scene and if they move correctly to the mark you established you can be right into your first over the should external reverse.

Do any of the characters talking move around during the conversation? You can also hold interest by layering elements within the scene so that you get some deep staging or too increase parallax for any tracking you do.


The man waking up and interacting with table and phone. The line is now between the man and these objects. Same as with above, resist crossing the line with your shots unless through movement by the character, the line crosses you.
Think about your framing between some specific parts of the action and connect those positions the way an animator goes from keyframe to keyframe. Again how do you get into and out of the scene.

Where do you first see the man sleeping? Can you place the camera to get a deep staging of him going from the bed to the table. Don't just do shots as a checklist. Think about the story your telling. Storyboarding is not the best way to block a scene. Storyboards are great for getting a feel for the production but not for blocking and staging!

And on that subject, forget books! Get the 6 DVD series "Hollywood CameraWork" http://www.hollywoodcamerawork.us Its a master course in blocking and staging.
 
Oh yes, when using the longer focal length, zoom in to get the same framing you would from a shorter focal length.
 
Mr. Tony C.

To shoot this example scene one would need to know what type of "feeling" they are going for in the scene. Do you want the scene to portray that he is just another white coller worker stuck in the loop of things, maybe you would use high angle shots, plain shots (showing his plain life), etc. Just think of angles and different shots that are going to portray what story you want to tell. Experiment, experiment, experiment.

As for order, that is based upon the person shooting and/or the director. Some like to do the most difficult shots first, some the easiest. If you are using talent and you only have them for a certain length of time, shoot all of the shots where the talent is plainly seen (mainly speaking, their face)...then shoot the rest of the shots that the talent isn't needed.

Hope that rambling helped.

Cool pics by the way.
 
Zack Attack said:
Mr. Tony C.

To shoot this example scene one would need to know what type of "feeling" they are going for in the scene. Do you want the scene to portray that he is just another white coller worker stuck in the loop of things, maybe you would use high angle shots, plain shots (showing his plain life), etc. Just think of angles and different shots that are going to portray what story you want to tell. Experiment, experiment, experiment.

As for order, that is based upon the person shooting and/or the director. Some like to do the most difficult shots first, some the easiest. If you are using talent and you only have them for a certain length of time, shoot all of the shots where the talent is plainly seen (mainly speaking, their face)...then shoot the rest of the shots that the talent isn't needed.

Hope that rambling helped.

Cool pics by the way.
Click to expand...


This is what I think too. It really depends on the film and the scene. We can't just tell you how to shoot something because it's so different for every film. My only general advice would be stay away from really cookie cutter shots. Those are like filler on a CD. I'm not saying you shouldn't use them; you need them to establish some kind of normalcy in your direction sometimes (you can't have a film with all "flashy" shots, it would either make you sick or become boring as odd as that sounds), but if this is just some standalone scene, try it a crapload of ways. Try one whole take. Try just stills, Napolean Dynamite style. try following his feet the entire way and then at the end boom up to his desk. Stuff like that.
 
My reaction to your comments on asking if you should just be shooting "important parts" is a resounding no! Shoot everything! More is definately better. I don't like chopping up scenes while filming...that's done in editing. Remember that many things can change in editing. You may want to deviate from your inital plans and storyboards. Once you're in front of your editor and you actually see things coming together, things may not look or feel like you intended initially. You *will* fix and change things. If you shot limited footage, your editing will be limited. If you shoot plenty of footage with different options, camera placement, angles, subjects, etc, then your possibilities in editing will be much greater.

Remember: You can always cut out tons of footage you don't want to use. But you can't cut in footage you haven't shot. It's somewhat easy to re-shoot environments and establishing shots, but it can be a real pain if you have to re-shoot your actors because you didn't get enough footage or the right footage the first time.
 
SVaughn, I agree with you, shooting everything possible is better yes and sort it out in editing...but unfortunately some people cannot afford to shoot that much tape/film.
 
When I'm setting up a scene, I jot down how I think it will be edited, i.e., how the "mental movie" plays in my head. Then I make up a shot list (actually, a set-up list), of evey set-up I think I need to give me as much coverage as possible. I then prioritize this list into A set-ups, B set-ups and C set-ups. The A's are the most important in that they are the ones I absolutely need to shoot and edi tthe scene successfully (to get the full scene "in the can"). The Bs are next in importance and give me more options. The C shots are the "it would be nice to..." set-ups that may add some flourish to the scene but are not absolutly neccessary to get the story told.

When I hit the floor I make sure that I get the A-sets, then go to the B-set-ups and If time permits, I will get the C set-ups. Of course, if the scene is going to need a reversal, and there fore a drastic change in lighting set-up. I make sure I have time to get as many A and B set-ups on the reversal before I go into C-set-ups on the original lighting positions. However, I will avoid re-lights at almost any cost and will get my C-set ups on the original if I have the time.

That is one point that I really want to get accross is the difference between shot and set-up. The shot, which is the point from "action" to "cut" is the base unit of editing. For production, the base unit is the set-up. The set-up is, "Put the camera here and shot that". That is, each camera postion to get the shots that you need. You could get a thousand shots from one set-up. The secret to effiecient produciton is to ask, "What is the least number of set-ups I need to get all the shots I want?" In most instances, the measure of producition is set-ups per day (and the number of script pages per day).

I tell you this because I have been with inexperience directors who start with,"Our first shot is a CU on John". Which you set-up and light. "Then our next shot is a CU or Jane" Which you set-up and light. "Then our next shot is back to the CU on John"!!! NO,NO, NO!!!! You end up breaking that habit real quick or your camera crew takes very long breaks to talk bad about you. OK?

If you are serious about this. Get your favorite movie and study it shot for shot. Use the pause and rewind and watch it scene for scene. Stop and write down each shot for every scene. Then look at the individual shots and see which ones came from the same set-up, then jot that down. Do this for the whole movie. After you have done this, watch it for editorial pacing (make notes). Watch it for pacing when in shots. Whatch it for acting. Watch it for sound design and music, ect, ect. Think about why this is your favorite movie and how do the execution of these element contribute to that.

Just a few thoughts, good luck.
 
I am wondering this too. When shooting a scene, to ensure coverage, do I (or all of you) begin from a specific line in the script or shoot the entire scene from the beginning.
To be clearer, does one shoot an entire scene from different angles or only specific parts of a scene from the desired angles.
 
You'd have to take scheduling and time constraints into consideration.

While I'm sure it'd be nice to shoot the whole scene from alot of different angles it's probably not realistic in terms of A) stock and B) time.

You have to be conservative and efficient onset and do your best to stick to the plans you made in pre-production.

If you think you can make a certain scene interesting by filming it from so many angles then make sure to do what you have to to get the individual shots. However don't just shoot the entire scene from every which way because you think you might find something cool in post.

It can be a waste of resources. Even if you have the time and stock to waste away it's not a very professional habit. Chances are you won't though so be conservative and try to stick to the plan. Do this and then you may wind up with the breathing room to try something different on set that you might not have thought of in pre-production.
 
There is no answer to these questions. As the storyteller, it is up to you what you want to do and up to you to decide what you need to tell the story. EVery director has a different style. There is no way a forum like this can even scratch the surface of this subject. My advice would be to get some books on directors, directing, and read them thoroughly. One good one is "Movie Makers Master Class". Get your favorite films and a remote, and make specific notes on how the director shot the whole movie. Once thru just to figure out how many setups they used in each scene. Then whether they shot whole scene or just a piece of it. Sometimes a setup is just for one specific shot. Sometimes it takes two days to get it. There is no rule

I can't imagine anyone who could get a good performance out of an actor one line at a time (rather than a scene at a time), because they would have problems maintaining the emotional state they need. OTOH, when they shot "Ed Wood" they had to do it that way because Legosi could not remember more than one line at a time. You do what you have to do on set. If you study Ed wood, you can see how the continuity with Legosi is weak, desipite a tremendous amount of post-work.

Some directors shoot tons of coverage, some rehearse it a few times, shoot it once or maybe twice, and then move on. Some give the actors freedom to improvise a scene once they have basic coverage, just to see where it can go. MANY famous scenes were not in the orginal script, but were improvised on-camera and went much farther than the writer or director imagined.

And considering the cost of a roll of miniDV tape, if tape cost is a consideration for anyone when shooting, then my advice is to go get a paper route or something. The joy of DV is being able to get it all and sort it out later in post.
 
I shoot the whole scene - so for example, 2 people on a bench. I start the conversation in the two shot to establish location etc. Then shoot the entire scene again for each of the two over the shoulder shots. It makes it easier for the actors to do the whole dialog etc. then chopping in and out.
 
liquidsn said:
Do I, Shoot it twice all the way though and than just edit it in and out? or do i find the important parts and shoot that. (like only when they talk)
Click to expand...

My .02--and is worth exactly that--If you have access to a second camera, this can help, since it provides for easier continuity (well, except for the wide establishing shot). You can synchronize the timecodes with the DVXs, which helps find it when editing. I have done multiple takes too, and that works. Combine the two (2 cams and 2 takes) and you have twice the acting to draw from.
 
yagfxg33k said:
I shoot the whole scene - so for example, 2 people on a bench. I start the conversation in the two shot to establish location etc. Then shoot the entire scene again for each of the two over the shoulder shots. It makes it easier for the actors to do the whole dialog etc. then chopping in and out.
Click to expand...

So in all you're talking 3 takes? Is that the norm?

Working with just 1 camera means one angle at a time...do you find that actors are able to do 3 takes of everything over and over?

As a budding film maker with one camera this is something I think about a lot i.e. how to get multiple angles with minimum takes.
 
Another good resource for you might be "The Cutting Edge: The Art of the Edit" or something like that. On DVD. Talks about the history of film editing, and the era of the master shot, two-shot, over the shoulders, and solo shots. Its an easy DVD to watch, and it gets shown on the pay networks (showtime? or encore) once in a while. Maybe A&E or Bravo will pick it up.

And there is always The Three C's of Cinematography.

But 70% of a film is casting.
 
Rosestar said:
When I'm setting up a scene, I jot down how I think it will be edited, i.e., how the "mental movie" plays in my head. Then I make up a shot list (actually, a set-up list), of evey set-up I think I need to give me as much coverage as possible.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I do. I cut the scene in my head before the shoot, usually as I'm reading the script. Then I make a handwritten shot list on a reporter's pad. I can use a lot of abbreviations, because I'll remember much of what I'm writing down later, so that the actual writing of the shot list takes the shortest amount of time (leaving the majority of your brain to think creatively and visualize the shots).

For a two-person dialogue scene, the convention is to shoot each actor's take all the way through from two different camera angles, using a single camera (this requires two camera/lighting set-ups).

Some directors actually roll two cameras at the same time, but this constricts the lighting set-up more (you're lighting for two angles, and you now have to keep all the lighting and grip gear out of both camera's shots). There is a potential performance advantage here so that if a natural rapport gets built during the scene, you don't have to recreate that energy for the reverse angle. But many of us lack the resources for two matched cameras and two competent camera operators.

It's also convention to shoot a two-shot for coverage (a third angle), although it's not necessary in every case. I may shoot a very wide master for the head and the tail of the take to use as a transition shot--this wide master may also be a slow dolly shot or crane shot.
 
Libneon, maybe you should direct a few plays first to learn about actors, because that's the most important part of any production. Think of them as the rivets in your ship. It only takes one bad one to cause a leak, and several will sink that sucker in no time. Also, volunteer to grip on a few productions. Take a class, read a book. There are many ways to learn about the industry, and DVXuser is a good one, but my advice is to work with more experienced people. I know a lot of people will say, "You can't swim unless, you jump in." but be warned, a lot of habits you pick-up early on in your career will stick with you. Especialy the bad ones. Don't become one of those Directors that think the most important part of a film is impressing people with their shots at the expense of creating a reality on the screen. There are already way too many "filmmakers" out there who are all technique and no heart. I wouldn't pick up their movies for $4.00 in the bargain bin at Wal-Mart. Remember this, making movies, especialy these days, is easy. Making good movies is hard as hell. Making great movies takes more than most of us have got. So go ahead, jump in, and lets' see what YOU'VE got.
 
Well the reason I've asked about the one camera thing is because up until now I've used video for documentaries only and all my film stuff has been shot on 16mm....which was on loan from film school and we had multiple cameras available to us as well as a full crew. Now I'm working on how to shoot "films" with my DVX100.
 
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