New York - 1970's

[snowleopard]

While watching the New Years celebration at Times Square tonight, I remembered my father talking about NYC back in the early 1970's, and how radically different parts of the city has become since that time. He described much of Manhattan as dirty and dangerous (yes, Manhattan). None the less, he was never mugged or anything, and alluded that it had a very unique, real-world character, even charm to it. It was New York, like no where else in the world. Now, Times Square has every last inch plastered with advertising, and lots of chain stores, and much, much safer.

So, I'm wondering first if anyone here remembers New York City in the early 1970's (or anytime from I guess about 1965 through 1980 or so), and how they feel about this.

Also, does anyone have any any favorite films that captured NYC from that era? It can either be good stories about the glory side of Manhattan, or the most dark sides of Harlem or the Bronx.

 

[PerroneFord]

I used to stay with my Aunt in Harlem during that period. It WAS dirty, and riding the subway you felt like you were taking your life into your own hands. I remember my aunt had about 5 locks on her door and an anti-kickin brace at the bottom.

It was a different time.

For a reference film, check Taxi Driver (1976) by Martin Scorsese starring Robert Di Niro and a VERY young Jodi Foster. It was shot on location around the city.

 

[Jim Brennan]

I used to go to Manhattan occasionally during that time, although I was too young to go on my own. I started going pretty regularly with friends around 82. We would go to Canal street where there were stores and vendors that would sell you just about anything. I had more weapons than any 15 year old should own. I could find all kinds of rare vinyl, and great (and cheap) vintage clothes. We would get the best Chinese food for ridiculously cheap prices.

I started going to school on 26th street in 84, and I would cut out a lot and go to the north end of Times Square to hit all of the music stores on 48th street. Sometimes I would spend all my money on hot dogs and have to walk to South Ferry down Broadway. That was a very cool little stroll.

It was a playground to me, and I never really felt like I was in danger. Part of that may have been the stupidity of youth, but I was also pretty smart about the way I handled myself. Muggers tend to prey on those that they perceive are weak or stupid. So you keep moving and be confident. Don't stop and make chit chat or get sucked into a 3-card monty game.

I was pretty saddened about what they have done to Times Square the last time I was there (I left NYC in 91). Yeah, it was a haven for hookers, dope and porn, but it was also unique. Now it's just another glorified, Disneyfied shopping mall. Besides, there were always way more hookers over by the West Side Highway then around Times Square. You could go there and feel like there was a pulse to life. Life is dirty, messy and complicated, but there are gems of beauty, and that's what Times Square was like.

As for films, i'd agree with Taxi Driver, also The French Connection and Prince of the City. A Bronx Tale is pretty close as well.

 

[David Jimerson]

I actually rather enjoyed Life on Mars for it's pre-disco '70s motif.

 

[Jim Brennan]

Glad you brought up disco, because the opening of Saturday Night Fever is about as spot-on-70's-in Brooklyn as it gets.

The flavor of Harlem in American Gangster seemed pretty rich as well.

 

[Gord.T]

//edit. Ooops. the 70's. Once again, I'm a little off there, lolllll.

New York, to me, remains the sole character of the US. Maybe that's stereo typical , but I mean it in the romantic sense. Theater is New York. Period, Agreed? It's nostalgic. It has history. I've never been there. Movies? Yikes. I don't know, I'm pretty pissed right now, maybe , ummm, ....

-Miracle on 34th Street -1947
-It's a Wondefull Life - 1946
- Rear Window - 1954
-Public Enemy - 1931

Alright. The dates. Don't sweat it. Don't even think about it.

There's a couple more, fk, like Woody Allens stuff. And there's another major one that I can't think of right now because I'm hammered, right? Tons of shi* man.
I mean, wtf is not to like about NY? You tell me. NY rocks. :beer:

 

[snowleopard]

Thanks for the quick responses.

Yes Jim, I think you completely hit it in that first post there. It's what my father was saying as well (he was a drill sergeant in the Army, thus not easily intimidated either) about dirtiness, crime and all, even with that the city still had great character. I remember going to NYC in the 90's even and a friend had an apt with a New York Lock (super dead bolt).

Taxi Driver is a great example. It has great looks at the city. The way it appeared, it's seedy and dangerous side. French Connection another good example. As was Dog Day Afternoon, Death Wish, Serpico, and Mean Streets in that vein. I saw American Gangster and yes, it did capture that time well in a look back. Marathon Man had good looks at the city then, as did the Seven Ups. Even some TV shows at the time such as Kojak had good 2nd unit and exteriors of the city. Woody Allen's Annie Hall, Interiors and Manhattan captured a different light of the city then, as did An Unmarried Woman. Of course there are more sensational films that still do possess some of the essence of the city I guess: The Warriors, Shaft, Panic in Needle Park, Ft. Apache, the Bronx, Superfly. (As I answer my own question! LOL!)

Gord, despite being pissed, I think you got it too. I love New York. :-Happy(DBG):

 

[TimurCivan]

well NYC was pretty sketch till '95ish....

I remeber when i was a kid (12 or 13), we used to mess with the heroin addicts on the bowery, because they would sink down slowly to the ground but never quite fall, and just when the were about to hit the ground, you would run up, and clap, right near their head, and they would spring back to life..... pissed and shaking their fists...

i miss thoes days... real people used to be able to afford to live in NY at that time.... not just millionaire sons and daughters...

i grew up in Bensonhurst Brookyn. The center of the brooklyn italian life. mmm. Best pizza on earth. period.


I think a movie that really nails it is, Manhattan. The woody allen film. Reminds me so much of when i was a kid in Manhattan.

 

[Scott F]

Great thread.

I grew up in Connecticut, but made trips to NYC with my parents. (and Yankee stadium, etc) What I remember distinctly is the graffiti art. It was everywhere on bridges, walls, billboards. They've really cracked down and cleaned it up since the late 80's. The older, more responsible me says it is probably a good thing, but I used to love looking at it when I was younger.

And what ever happened to stripped cars on the West Side Highway?

And I had to do some searching from memory, but I found this link. It's fairly graphic at times, but if you want to see some intense images of New York from the 70s/80s, check it out.

EDIT:
A few of my favorite NY films:
The Warriors
State of Grace
Hell Up In Harlem
NY skate scene in Future Primitive (Great footage of Times Square circa 1984)
and can't forget JUICE! (which is always on cable)

 

[Richard J. Johnson]

I remember Times Square being a red light district. Nothing but hookers, pimps, bums, drug addicts, drug dealers etc. As a kid I thought it was an amazing place. I had never even seen a hooker or a pimp in person and was like "daddy, this is just like the movies"

My pops loved Tads Steak House and every time I went to New York to hang out with him we went there. I remember that place so vividly. I'm glad they cleaned it up.

 

[PerroneFord]

And I had to do some searching from memory, but I found this link. It's fairly graphic at times, but if you want to see some intense images of New York from the 70s/80s, check it out.

Yep, that's how I remember it. People who wonder where "hip-hop" music as a form came from. You're looking at it. It was a way to have a social and political commentary on those conditions. What "rap" music has become bears little resemblance to the roots that are laid out so plainly here.

So sad.

 

[Kellar42]

I only visited Manhattan for the first time last year, but was told by much older friends and relatives about how dirty, unfriendly, and dangerous it was.

I was actually pretty pleased when it turned out to be clean, friendly, and safe. I still think the is a lot of color in that city, and as a fellow who's been through the rough sections of plenty of Latin American towns, and still drinks his rum surrounded by freelance hookers, I think I can say I know and enjoy observing some of what you guys are talking about.

However, I don't think having a clean place to start is EVER a bad thing. The fact that I was able to leave relatives at a nice touristy restaurant in the village without fear that they'd make it back to their hotel, and walk across the island to the lower East Side and find some color, was a great thing.

I don't know that city well, but I fell in love and I will say this...you want color, you want trouble...it's there. But it's nice to be able to escape it, also!

 

[Jim Brennan]

Y'know, I have NEVER found NYC to be an unfriendly place, at least no more than anywhere else. There are jerks everywhere. New Yorkers are just as nice as anyone (maybe nicer), they just have stuff to do. It's a different, more focused vibe. These people live in what is arguably the single greatest metropolis on the planet. They get jaded, but they still care.

I remember analyzing the Kitty Genovese case in one of my many failed trips to college. She was attacked and murdered in Queens. There were initial (inaccurate) reports that dozens of neighbors heard the attack and did nothing. That did a lot to give NYC a bad rep about not caring.

Cleaning up the graffiti and relocating the hookers (because that's all "urban renewal' does...it's a shell game...that stuff doesn't go away, it just moves) doesn't make a place friendlier, it just gives that illusion. That's good for the bottom line.

But I'll take a little risk with reality, than the illusion of safety with someone else's version of a mirage.

 

[David Jimerson]

And I had to do some searching from memory, but I found this link. It's fairly graphic at times, but if you want to see some intense images of New York from the 70s/80s, check it out.

And that's when the CHUDs came at me.

 

[TimurCivan]

NYC even in the 80's was friendly. You just had to understand it. For example, my apartment was robbed when i was a kid, adn within 10 min, before the police showed up, word got out, and all the young guys in the neighborhood, were out with baseball bats looking for a guy with a VCR and a Camera....

thats how we protected each other. And it was real. it wasnt a hollywood thing.

I miss those days. Bensonhurst is mostly Russian, and Chinese folks now. I live in Spanish harlem, the last of the few pockets of oldstyle NYC. We still have that sense of neighborhood there. Eddie, my buildings hallway drunk (aka our unofficial Doorman) keeps an eye on people, and prevents people from being accosted by would be punks and muggers on the block... and al he asks in payment is a beer occasionally, and a few cigarettes... its still here, just smaller.

 

[PerroneFord]

We still have that sense of neighborhood there. Eddie, my buildings hallway drunk (aka our unofficial Doorman) keeps an eye on people, and prevents people from being accosted by would be punks and muggers on the block... and al he asks in payment is a beer occasionally, and a few cigarettes... its still here, just smaller.

No one understands that...

I grew up with those ideas, where people watched the block. And people looked out for one another. Ahhh, Spanish Harlem. My Aunt's place was on W. 147th street. Between Amsterdam and Broadway if memory serves...

If people can get past the overt tones, a view of "Do the Right Thing" can be very enlightening as a commentary on the end of that era.

 

[TimurCivan]

114th and pleasant ave. MAD east side.

 

[Gord.T]

Disclaimer-not spelled cheked.

...
Gord, despite being pissed, I think you got it too. I love New York.

Thanks man.

Thanks for the quick responses.


Taxi Driver is a great example. It has great looks at the city. The way it appeared, it's
seedy and dangerous side. French Connection another good example. As was Dog Day Afternoon,
Death Wish, Serpico, and Mean Streets in that vein. I saw American Gangster and yes, it did
capture that time well in a look back. Marathon Man had good looks at the city then, as did the
Seven Ups. Even some TV shows at the time such as Kojak had good 2nd unit and exteriors of the city.
Woody Allen's Annie Hall, Interiors and Manhattan captured a different light of the city then, as did
An Unmarried Woman. Of course there are more sensational films that still do possess some of the essence
of the city I guess: The Warriors, Shaft, Panic in Needle Park, Ft. Apache, the Bronx, Superfly.
(As I answer my own question! LOL!)

...

I've seen all those except An Unmarried woman.Great post man.

I'd also toss in 'The Bowery Boys' and maybe some of the same from 'The Dead End Gang' with Cagney and
Huntz Hall. Just for nostalgia.

On a side note. read a great book years ago called 'Sleepers' based in Hell's kitchen. They made a move of it with Kevin Bacon.
Very very bad movie. No consideration to the book at all. I was really disappointed with it.
The book I'd put into 2 categories. 1'st half is about the kids growing up in Hell's kitchen.
I give that half of the book 10/10. Next half is about the reform school. I didn't like that. And that's what the movie focused on and made bad to worse. The movie was a major disappointment, to say the least. :beer:

If you ever pick up the book, the first half is ideal. It's worth a read just for that half. I loved it.
Still never been there before, but I think that part of the story was pretty cool and accurate, from the book writing. It was cool. Check it out.

Whoooo... carry on...

//ooops, 'The Dead End Kids', not the 'The Dead End Gang' hehe. My bad. 48 films I hear now, since checking around, those boys made. Wow.

Wiki...

In 1946, with only Monogram making films using any of the original Dead End Kids, Huntz Hall, Leo Gorcey, and Gorcey's agent, Jan Grippo, revamped The East Side Kids, rechristening them "The Bowery Boys." These films followed a more established formula than the earlier films. First Jordan, then Dell departed the series after several films. Gorcey left after the forty-first film and was replaced by Stanley Clements for the remaining films. In all, a total of 48 Bowery Boys films were made, ending with 1958's In the Money. During the series Hall and Dell did a nightclub act together. Gorcey and Hall reteamed on film in The Phynx.

In all, there were 48 Bowery Boys films (the longest feature-film series in motion picture history), with the final film, In the Money, being released in 1958. Only Huntz Hall and David Gorcey had remained with the series since 1946.[1]

I gotta catch up on a few more of these. Jeeeez. :beer:

 

[snowleopard]

Good posts, all.

Kellar - I think one thing missed perhaps I was alluding to, is that it may have become a Hobson's choice for many people in NYC over the last two decades. From the old: littered, dangerous, but with character and neighborhood fellowship; To the new: cleaner, safer, but more generic with chain stores all over and plastered with advertising, (and more expensive). When much of what was good about the past is tossed with what was bad in the name of progress or urban renewal, when maybe it didn't have to be that way.

Maybe I'm being nostalgic. Living in a world of my father's wisdom, and old movies? Having never seen NYC before the late 1990s, when you could see the renewal almost in front of your eyes, but instantly loving all of it anyway, and still so every time I visit.

Gord - would definitely recommend watching an Unmarried Woman. Jill Clayburgh should have won an Oscar for that role.

Anyone ever see A Bronx Tale? The DeNiro-Chazz Palminteri film? I should rent it. I've already put Taxi Driver and Mean Streets near the top of my Netflix list. rogar-SunGlass(DBG

 

[TimurCivan]

The joke is that I'm the only person in the film industry in ny that's from ny. My big pet peeve is when you ask some one "where are you from, the usual answer (because I KNOW they aren't from here) should be, I'm from california/wisconsin/maryland/longisland/jerseyetc... buts always "I live in new york.... um well I moved here 4 weeks ago from kentucky"...

Dudes be proud of where you grew up. Kentucky has trees. I been there. Trees like you wouldn't believe. Beautiful natural forrests and amazing landscape. Ny doesn not have that. Wish it did. All we have the lawn that is central park. Lol